ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease?

[OLDMNSX]

I disassembled an NSX ABS module today. The individual modulators were assembled with some kind of grease that is compatable with brake fluid. Anyone out there know what grease this is?

As I look at this assembly I think I see where we are having our problems. The electro valves have very fine screen mesh on both ends that keep small particles from getting into them, but there is nothing that keeps the small particles away from the seals in the modulator valves them selves. I have completely disassembled one of the modulators and the single lip seals look good with a magnifing glass. There is really nothing to it. Remember it is Japanese engineering, simple, well designed and repairable.

There was a large amount of small particles in the modulator valve part of the main body. I think that this is where our problems are coming from. These small particles are causing the seals to leak. This causes the accumulator to loose pressure and in turn causes the pump to attempt to maintain pressure in the accumulator.

My theory is that a complete disassembly, cleaning and reassembly will take care of the continous pressure bleed in the ABS unit.

If I can't find a compatible grease I will assemble with brake fluid as a lubricant for the o-rings and seals. I will then install, bleed and test the unit as soon as possible.

Brad

 

[EK4 hatchback]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

I disassembled an NSX ABS module today. The individual modulators were assembled with some kind of grease that is compatable with brake fluid. Anyone out there know what grease this is?

As I look at this assembly I think I see where we are having our problems. The electro valves have very fine screen mesh on both ends that keep small particles from getting into them, but there is nothing that keeps the small particles away from the seals in the modulator valves them selves. I have completely disassembled one of the modulators and the single lip seals look good with a magnifing glass. There is really nothing to it. Remember it is Japanese engineering, simple, well designed and repairable.

There was a large amount of small particles in the modulator valve part of the main body. I think that this is where our problems are coming from. These small particles are causing the seals to leak. This causes the accumulator to loose pressure and in turn causes the pump to attempt to maintain pressure in the accumulator.

My theory is that a complete disassembly, cleaning and reassembly will take care of the continous pressure bleed in the ABS unit.

If I can't find a compatible grease I will assemble with brake fluid as a lubricant for the o-rings and seals. I will then install, bleed and test the unit as soon as possible.

Brad

Good stuff, please update us!!

Keno

 

[Aurora]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

I'll get back to this as my old 1988 Prelude workshop manual gives instructions how to disassemble the ABS modulator as this was serviceable part for the Prelude. It will probably state to use a silicone grease like the NSX calipers with no further information on what properties the grease should have. In my early motoring years I used Molykote Medium 33 for the rear calipers. Medium 33 was a low temperature silicone grease! However without any ill effects. Luckily the rear calipers don't get that hot and certainly an ABS-modulator won't, even when placed directly behind the radiator.

Roger

 

[goldNSX]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

Very interesting! Get the seals damaged by the small particles? If you flush the system don't the particles get out of the unit? Where do these particles come from? Do you have pics of the dissembled unit?

 

[Bram]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

This interesting that you took on the task of dismantling the ABS unit, this should answer a lot of questions.
Since these units have been used in older Acura's, then the grease info could be within these Manuals....like an 91 Interga or Legend

Bram

 

[ak]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

When I rebuilt my caliper, the rebuild kit came with bunch of grease in small pouches. I'm assuming you can buy this stuff from Honda. You might want to contact Larry B. He probably knows this stuff inside-out.

 

[joe]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

Try napa or a real auto parts store. It is common to use special grease when rebuilding calipers,same stuff would work for the abs.. this is a great thread. Can u take some pictures?

 

[OLDMNSX]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

It sounds like I hit a nerve here with the ABS module.

Yes, I will take pictures and as I come up with new discoveries with this I will keep everyone informed. I am pulling in all resourses to get this figured out. I think that a lot of people will benefit from "cracking the nut" on this one.

Brad

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

Hi Brad,

I got your message, but I was not able to find the exact grease type. It really looks like silicone grease, but I am doubtful based on the general comments about silicone and DOT 3-4 NOT mixing.

I know exactly what "ak" is refering to when you get a caliper rebuild kit, I just did a rebuild a few weeks ago, but it is not clear exactly what the grease is.

I will try to ask American Honda.

EDIT:

Found this: http://www.mgocaccessories.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_Accessories__Grease_176.html

Fourth item "Red Rubber Grease"

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Bob_54]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

I am not sure what grease is used to assemble ABS units but when brake master cylinders are assembled a water insoluble based lubricant is used. The one I am most familiar with is manufactured by Dow and is called Ucon Lubricant LB-300-XY26. This is a good water insoluble based lubricant formulated with an antioxidant for improved high-temperature performance. The only downside to this lubricant is it will not stay on the seals for an extended period of time. It is mainly an assembly aid that is compatable with DOT3 and 4 brake fluid.

If I had to guess the grease used is a PFPE based grease similar to Kluber Alpha but it typically will only remain on a EPDM seals for so many cycles (depending on usage). I don't recommend using this grease on an ABS unit though unless you find out this is in fact the grease that the OEM uses.

Whatever you decide to use just make sure it is not a mineral oil based lubricant. Mineral oil based lubricants will cause the EPDM seals in the brake system (ABS/Master Cylinder/Caliper)to swell to the point where you will loose brake function.

 

[Aurora]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

I finally found time to pick up the Prelude manual which says to coat the rubber parts of the plunger and solenoid o-rings in rubber grease. However it did not state the part number on this page, but on the rear caliper the part number of the rubber grease is stated: 08733-B020E.

See also the following link for the grease part numbers:
http://www.hondaworld.ru/manuals/civic95-97_19-28.htm


I scanned the page, sorry it's in Dutch:


Rough translation:
1. Apply rubber grease to the shaded areas. (solenoid o-rings & plunger)
2. Pre-fill the modulator block with brake fluid (remvloeistof = brake fluid).
3. Place the solenoid/plunger assembly in the modulator block and press the plunger downwards.
4. Press the plunger 5 times downwards until no bubbles appear on the solenoid side.
5. Assemble the the modulator springs.
6. Carefully assemble the solenoid caps and make sure not to pinch the o-rings.

I hope this helps you, Roger.

 

[OLDMNSX]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

Thanks to ALL for your help.

I just came back from the HONDA parts department and picked up a tube of silicone base grease. The part number is 08798-9013 and cost me $17.41. It is kind of expensive, but if it makes this clock "tick" it will be worth it.

Next step, to get the solenoids flushed clean.

More to come.

Brad

 

[CityofAngels]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

I came across a pdf of Honda adhesives, lubricants, oils, etc. and this is what they have for brake seals:

Dow Corning 111 Silicone Paste
P/N Call Dow Corning: 800-248-2481
Desc: High-viscosity lubricant for rubber-to-metal, and plastic-to-metal contact. Also used for suspension bushings and brake system seals.

-attachment

 

[warrenw]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

To revive an old post, I have my old ABS modulator apart and I too have found a bunch of particles in the bottom of the modulator that for sure is causing the leakage at the solenoids and affecting the ABS from functioning properly.
Amazing how bad this can be, as my ABS unit has only 37,000 miles on it and everything on the car is super clean. The particles really look like bug guts.

Brad, did you find that grease that is compatible with Dot 3,4 fluid? You can see some of this grease on the valves. (first two pics)
I am trying to replace all the o-rings and rebuild this unit.

 

[OLDMNSX]

Re: ABS Module Brake Fluid Compatable Grease??????

Warren,
I guess I would have to put some of that HONDA grease in a container with some brake fluid and see if the grease desolves, if it doesn't then I would say that it is compatible. That would answer our question.
Brad

 

[joe]

I have an extra set of seals to do this job. Brad please call me if you need them..Joe

 

[4811]

are those rebuild kit/seals still available? would love to get it solve ASAP

 

[joe]

I was looking for the reciept with the part numbers for the solenoid o rings. Cannot find it. I do however have the seals in a box at my dads home 150 miles away. As soon as i go and get my collection of parts I can give the part numbers. If you call Tim Polinak at honda acura world he can help now!http://www.oemacuraparts.com/ He is my only parts supplier I deal with. Good luck. Tell Tim Joe from tampa sent you.

 

[joe]

I will have the o ring kits in my hands tomorrow will put out the parts numbers asap..

 

[redbird92]

Looking forward to the p/n's thx !!!

Ben

 

[warrenw]

I am having problems getting all the o rings, I too am looking for those OEM part numbers...

 

[joe]

Looking at the pictures warren g has supplied above, my solenoid o rings fit the ones in pictures 3/4/5. I am not sure what solenoids are shown in pictures 1 and 2.. Here are the numbers, 19012-671-300 this is a small o ring that fits on the bottom of the solenoid. 4 are needed.. Ok the larger orings 2 needed for each solenoid [8] and 2 for the plastic reservoir 57202-sbo-801.. I have no idea if you can get these from your local dealer. I would suggest you call Tim Poliniak see above post. He is the zen master of hard to get acura parts.. any questions 813 205 5966. Thanks to Brad for showing me the ropes on abs systems.

 

[warrenw]

Pictures 1 & 2 are not solenoids. They are the valves that actually move the brake calipers when the abs solenoids are active and keep the brake and ABS fluid separate. The two o-rings are different sizes in diameter only.

 

[bjmills]

Hi,

I'm looking for a source for the ABS O-rings, part numbers:

57139-SB0-801
57202-SB0-801
57189-SL0-003

Any ideas? My Canadian dealer says they're unavailable, and US dealers say they can't get them as they're not US part numbers.

 

[warrenw]

I just ordered all the o-rings from Daemar Inc. I won't have them for a couple of weeks due to them being a special order.. I will let you know when I get them back how things go.

http://www.daemar.com