Acura NSX-T vs. Porsche 911 Turbo

[nsxtasy]

In all fairness, most of those options are cases where Porsche offers the ability to customize the car to the owner's preferences. Maybe I don't care about having my Porsche painted Mary Kay Pink and the interior leather to match, but someone else might, and is willing to pay for the privilege. In which case, that's fine, no harm done.

A few of the options SOUND like things that ought to be standard, and shouldn't represent an extra charge - things like "natural leather" for $1400 (apparently this is if you want tan leather interior instead of black leather), "supple leather" for $395, etc. But on the 911TT, it's not too bad; this particular model is fairly complete (and I'm not sure what the "essential" options are that G-man mentions). This is very different from the "stripper" 911 Carrera Coupe, which at $68K excludes options such as 18" wheels ($1325-2790), leather-covered steering wheel ($1270-1520), rear spoiler ($3390), leather seats ($1490) or leather anything else ($$$$$), power seats ($1535), etc.

 

[G-man]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
In all fairness, most of those options are cases where Porsche offers the ability to customize the car to the owner's preferences.

A few of the options SOUND like things that ought to be standard, and shouldn't represent an extra charge - things like "natural leather" for $1400 (apparently this is if you want tan leather interior instead of black leather), "supple leather" for $395, etc.

Yeah, I am not much for a custom color either, but I think that if I were to spring for another $128K+ car, I might spend a little extra and have my own color combo. It can work for you as well as against you. That Mary-K pink may look good on a Cadi, but I can't imagine it on the turbo. Even matching hot pink leather is almost too much to imagine.

As to the leather cost options, it has to do with the quality of the leather. The base leather isn't too comfy so the super soft leather is a few hundred extra in order to pay for the difference in the leather. The reason natural leather is so much more expensive is that all the hides for the ENTIRE car must match perfectly, so there is a lot of waste in the processes before they get enough natural leather the right color, grade, etc and no barb wire marks or anything (seriously). Anyway, the BMW M3 is the same way. They offered me natural leather for the seats and foor panels as a $2,700 option. I passed.

The options that I got on my Turbo were the lumbar support left and right, aluminum design package with aluminum shifter, hand brake, interior trim items, etc. Turbo aluminum logo door sills, Xenon height adjusting headlights, CD Changer, Bose Acousti-Wave Sound System (AWESOME!), Leather Interior package including leather door panels, leather instrument surround, Porsche colored crest wheel caps, 3-Spoke all leather steering wheel. All Leather (Suede) headliner, and a few other goodies.

The base price for the Turbo was $116K as you guys pointed out before. Options pushed it to $121,800 and some change, destination charges, sales tax, gas guzzler tax, luxury tax, our government wants to suck you dry tax, etc... all totaled came to $128,683.74 or something like that.

Frankly, I didn't think the NSX needed anything on the interior. The cockpit of the NSX is a true work of art. The most suple leather you could ever want. Seats that don't need lumbar and leather interior trim that most would die for. I love the NSX interior much more than the 911... What! A compliment.

------------------
Gordon G. Miller, III
2002 Porsche 911 Turbo

 

[nsxtasy]

Maybe I'm weird, but I think an expensive car (like a 911 or an M3) should come standard with a high grade of leather, not crappy leather (that "isn't too comfy") or cloth (M3).

And I don't think the NSX interior is perfect. They should have left the natural fragrance in, at least for export markets.

BTW, G-Man, you got a bargain if you paid less than $7K on taxes...

 

[BoostedMR2]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Maybe I'm weird, but I think an expensive car (like a 911 or an M3) should come standard with a high grade of leather, not crappy leather (that "isn't too comfy") or cloth (M3).

Yep. Give me a cheap, lightweight 911 any day and the seats can be covered in burlap sacks and the radio player can be an 8-track for all I care.

Of course, I don't think Porsche is going to offer a $40k burlap seat discount anytime soon and when they do strip a car down, like the RS America models, they charge a hefty premium for not giving you AC, power windows, cruise control and such. BMW did the same with the ’95 M3 Lightweight.

Thanks, Porsche and BMW, for catering to weekend enthusiasts by charging big $$$$ for keeping parts back at the factory.

-- DavidV

www.boostedgroup.com

 

[G-man]

Originally posted by BoostedMR2:
Yep. Give me a cheap, lightweight 911 any day and the seats can be covered in burlap sacks and the radio player can be an 8-track for all I care.

Now THAT is funny! Yep, I know what you mean. Those special models have a lot of lightweight pieces that are often specially cast or forged to save weight. These tools are often special materials with more expensive manufacturing processes or materials. Either way, it seems to be a function of the retooling needed to support those limited production runs.

But, I think you are right about the older 911s. My 1975 911S cost me only $12,500 fully restored and it had 215hp and only weighed about 2,300 lbs. That would put it in the NSX power to weight ratio. It was as fast as anything you could put up against it in 2nd-4th gears (due to track gearing setup). I could routinely reel in Porsche 996 coupe (non-turbo) models on the race track and they had 315hp (100 more than me) In my case the car had old Corbeau seats that were trimmed it phaux leather and covered in "heather" cloth, basically looked like burlap!

It also had a non-working Pioneer Super Tuner radio from the 80s so I tossed it in favor of a custom unit. While I did replace the seats with RECARO sport seats and ripped out the radio, the car was awesome regardless of the crappy seats and radio.

If the car didn't cost me $700 ever 2 months in service to keep the car running, it would have been perfect.

hehehehe. Then again, the car was over 25 years old, so you have to expect even the basic problems. Mostly electrical.

------------------
Gordon G. Miller, III
2002 Porsche 911 Turbo

 

[cojones]

see some pictures of Porsches and NSXs here --> http://www.986host.com/gallery/smd0600/nsx_wilson

Pix from a Supercar drive -- lots of Porsches, including several GT2s, NSXs, V8 Ferraris, Lotus, Lambo, Benz AMG, Bimmer M, Skylines, etc. A lot of good "in your mirror" shots.

HK-based album site owner has an older NSX, updated to 02-body (its in a bright blue). He also has a P911/996TT. That's one way to settle it -- just get BOTH

[This message has been edited by cojones (edited 04 September 2002).]

 

[jagtiger]

 

[NSX UNITED]

FYI, a good license plate in HK is much harder and more expensive (some can go above half a million US) than a car.

 

[Sunseeker]

Good luck with your porsche I sold my 2000 996 hell of a car however, Here in so Cal every other car is a Porsche every one should own one once in their life. good choice however I just purchased my freinds 91 NSK with 28K for 20K. I have owned three porsches and have had a blast with all of them I purchased the NSX as they are rare. Gary

 

[AU_NSX]

Good luck with your porsche I sold my 2000 996 hell of a car however, Here in so Cal every other car is a Porsche every one should own one once in their life. good choice however I just purchased my freinds 91 NSK with 28K for 20K. I have owned three porsches and have had a blast with all of them I purchased the NSX as they are rare. Gary

Wow... Revived after nearly 3years... New record??

 

[NSXBOX]

996 TT could be my next car waiting for the 997 TT to come out so that prices will drop abit more.

 

[G-man]

I have owned three porsches and have had a blast with all of them I purchased the NSX as they are rare. Gary

Yeah, but I sold my NSX because I was tired of everyone always getting it confused with a Corvette. Rare, but also not unique enough. Honda is doing all of us a dis-service by not producing a replacement for the NSX. I loved my NSX, even with all its flaws, but when I can buy a 505hp Z06 Corvette that will run circles around my NSX and cost less to boot, then my money is on the results. The new 997 Twin Turbo has gotten low marks for the interior and the 485hp is pretty tame compared to teh rest of teh world. I was afraid that Porsche wouldn't bring enough game. If you want to charge $130,000+ for your flagship super car then you need to bring at least 500hp (the magic number). Even though it is more psychological than technical, but you can't argue with the fact that the Z06 is 1/2 the cost of the 997 Turbo and betters it in hp and matches it in 0-60 and other areas... oh, and did I mention there is NO turbo on the Z06?!

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't have a water bed or enough gold chains to really be able to justify actually owning a Corvette Z06, all I am saying is that if you drive one and look at the numbers, that you can't help but realize that unless Honda revives the NSX soon and brings at least 400hp in the process, it will very quickly cease to become relevant.

 

[NSXLuvr]

Thread necrophiliac :biggrin: :biggrin:

btw, if you are in the market for a new Sports car. The NSX is already irrelevant:frown: :frown: Overpriced, underpowered and not being sold anymore.:frown:

 

[Klayton]

Thread necrophiliac :biggrin: :biggrin: [..]

lol! :biggrin:

 

[Osiris_x11]

you get what you pay for...

Good luck with your porsche I sold my 2000 996 hell of a car however, Here in so Cal every other car is a Porsche every one should own one once in their life. good choice however I just purchased my freinds 91 NSK with 28K for 20K. I have owned three porsches and have had a blast with all of them I purchased the NSX as they are rare. Gary

Wowz!?! I guess your friend doesn't give a sh1t about losing $12,500-$15,000 (depending on whether maint'/service is upto date, snap-ring range transmission or not, etc'...). Now that's the type of friend we ALL need to have... :wink:

On topic... I feel alot of what is lost on the NSX'es MSRP and 0-60 & 1/4 numbers is how much quality, refinement, and dependability you get. I know a dozen or so original owners of '91 & '97 models who have yet to spend a dime outside manufacturer's suggested maint'/service costs & consumables. Not to mention residual value over time is phenomenal for mileage/usage.

I can't recall anyother make/model that is over 15yrs old and still worth 45% of it's original MSRP ($60k) while having close to or more than 100k miles.

Principally, Porsche's been building the same car for 40 or so years... there is no justifiable reason why it costs what it does...!

Just food-for-thought!

 

[AU_NSX]

996 TT could be my next car waiting for the 997 TT to come out so that prices will drop abit more.

I can feel your anger.... Yes buy the Porsche and you journey to the dark side will be complete.....

Noooooooooooooooo................

 

[Edwardo]

Oh my gosh! I was the first person to respond to Gordon way back when on this thread. Back then I was so young and innocent. I feel so...old now. :biggrin:

Man, even old Allan is in this thread haha!

 

[Mirroredshades]

Thread necrophiliac :biggrin: :biggrin:

I almost blew coffee through my nose. Nice one.

 

[len3.8]

Re: (Yeah, you do.) Re: you get what you pay for...

I can't recall anyother make/model that is over 15yrs old and still worth 45% of it's original MSRP ($60k) while having close to or more than 100k miles.

Principally, Porsche's been building the same car for 40 or so years... there is no justifiable reason why it costs what it does...!

Just food-for-thought!

Cmon, O... Have you seen the prices of 911s?
Look at years 65-88, they are holding rather well.
I have a 69S that I can sell for 35K all day long.
I sold a 84 Carrera for 23K a year ago.
All of that is well above 45%, Plus you are not comparing apples to apples. Though the 911 is one model, there were so many different iterations within that 40 year time frame. Take the 89 911 Turbo and compare prices, or take the 911 Speedster of 89, both over 12 years old, and tell me what they are worth.
The principles of design may have been the same, but the cars are very different over the years. Motors, suspensions, Weight, Brakes, on and on.

The NSX has the advantage, It is one car, limited production, (Only because it did not sell well),
That is why the price is holding up, in all actuality they should cost more than they do.

Porsche is getting those prices due to the fact that people are willing to pay those prices.
Their lul came about in 91-94, and the 996 series has very weak resale numbers, but the 95-98 model cars will always have a strong rate of return.

I own a NSX and 911, I'm sorry the 911 is just as dependable, over all years, and probably less expensive to work on. It is a simple fact.

I agree that the car is now overpriced, as they are not really marketing to their grassroots customers anymore, they are tapping into the new money (so to speak) side.
The car has a solid following and it always will.
Would I take a 911Turbo over a NSX? Hell Yes, any year from 89 on....
Would I sell my NSX in order to get a 911 Turbo any year? Hell no... Simply because I want both...
The NSX because the styling is classic.
The 911 Because the styling is classic, though froggy.
Both, because I am a friggin car guy...:wink:

 

[Parker6Speed]

Re: (Yeah, you do.) Re: you get what you pay for...

The principles of design may have been the same, but the cars are very different over the years. Motors, suspensions, Weight, Brakes, on and on....


Porsche is getting those prices due to the fact that people are willing to pay those prices.
Their lul came about in 91-94, and the 996 series has very weak resale numbers, but the 95-98 model cars will always have a strong rate of return.

I own a NSX and 911, I'm sorry the 911 is just as dependable, over all years, and probably less expensive to work on. It is a simple fact.

Sorry I don't post much around here although i'm an avid reader. As for this great thread, I had to add my experience...

I'm a happy porsche and audi guy, been so for a while. I've owned a boxster, 993 C4 and a 996 turbo. Each one of them have been completely reliable, however I never had the pains of covering costs out of warranty. Porsche service isn't cheap. and nor is ordering one new. I HATE the fact that porsche charges extra (alot extra) for every little option when ordering from the factory. That's the exact reason why i buy cert pre-owned with <15k in mileage. Certain things need to be included, after all most of thier buyers are repeat customers. But the fact stands that the car sells for such a lofty price due to the demand and market willing to pay for it.

As for the car being the 'same', take a look inside. the engine was overhauled multiple times, each time trumping the last. The amount of R&D spent is exasperating. Even the 997 turbo has a completely different brain than the 996. The generational 911 is a different car entirely from the previous generations. Its just a wonderful evolution built on a solid, race-bred platform. The world would be blah without Porsche's genius.

I too really hope there's the hand of god upon the team at acura over there. If anything, they should take a look here and see what you all do to your NSXs... and especially take a look at factorX engineering. An NSX with twin turbos and suspension/brakes to match would, in my opinion, take the performance #s of a stock Porsche TT and smear it on the bathroom wall. And it would be as exciting to drive, if not an entirely different experience for the better.

As for the NSX... I've been in love with it since I was a teen in the 90s. I always planned on having it in my garage. I will eventually own one, and it will spend time on Speedway Blvd in Vegas before I park it at my house. The only reason why I haven't yet is bc I've been killing myself starting a new business for a while. I absolutely cannot wait until I have more personal time, though perhaps Acura will surprise us by then

Rob

 

[AU_NSX]

Re: (Yeah, you do.) Re: you get what you pay for...

... An NSX with twin turbos and suspension/brakes to match would, in my opinion, take the performance #s of a stock Porsche TT and smear it on the bathroom wall. And it would be as exciting to drive, if not an entirely different experience for the better...

Well a stock 996TT yes, my NSX-TT with 550hp, mugan suspension, Type-R sways and 13.4" Brembo competition brakes f & r... Does beat a stock 996TT. But if you modify a Porsche 996TT or the upcomming 997TT by Gembella or Ruf then you have a different story...

But buying a Porsche (no matter how much respect this former owner has for them :wink: ) is the path to the dark side.... :biggrin:

 

[BD]

One thing is for sure, Porsche Turbo on the track at ful speed around the tight corner will probably kill ya.

And, Porsche has never, never beat Honda in the F1.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7286156674355718198&q=nsx

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4850122569825344393&q=top+gear

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8415390986333790224&q=nsx

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6023510595639884890&q=nsx

 

[jlindy]

Yeah, but I sold my NSX because I was tired of everyone always getting it confused with a Corvette. Rare, but also not unique enough. Honda is doing all of us a dis-service by not producing a replacement for the NSX. I loved my NSX, even with all its flaws, but when I can buy a 505hp Z06 Corvette that will run circles around my NSX and cost less to boot, then my money is on the results. The new 997 Twin Turbo has gotten low marks for the interior and the 485hp is pretty tame compared to teh rest of teh world. I was afraid that Porsche wouldn't bring enough game. If you want to charge $130,000+ for your flagship super car then you need to bring at least 500hp (the magic number). Even though it is more psychological than technical, but you can't argue with the fact that the Z06 is 1/2 the cost of the 997 Turbo and betters it in hp and matches it in 0-60 and other areas... oh, and did I mention there is NO turbo on the Z06?!

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't have a water bed or enough gold chains to really be able to justify actually owning a Corvette Z06, all I am saying is that if you drive one and look at the numbers, that you can't help but realize that unless Honda revives the NSX soon and brings at least 400hp in the process, it will very quickly cease to become relevant.

I have just seen this thread for the first time. G-Man, can you tell us how your P fared over the long term? Did you have any complaints, problems, or anything else that has changed your original opinion of them? I have often considered getting a 2000-2002 turbo but afraid of maintenance. Sorry if you have covered this in other areas. :smile:

 

[SCS2k]

I have just seen this thread for the first time. G-Man, can you tell us how your P fared over the long term? Did you have any complaints, problems, or anything else that has changed your original opinion of them? I have often considered getting a 2000-2002 turbo but afraid of maintenance. Sorry if you have covered this in other areas. :smile:

I have had my 2002 996TT since May of 2003. I bought it used with 13k on it. Shortly thereafter had it slightly modified to produce about 525hp. It now has over 30k on it. Here's a list of problems I've had during nearly 3 years of ownership (all were fixed under warranty):

1: Bad headlight - turned out to be a loose connection
2: Bad alarm sensor
3: Battery died - maintenance item but replaced for free.
4: Clutch slave cylinder.
5: Hydraulic pump for rear spoiler.

I've been quite impressed with the reliability of this car.