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Any Fix to the Early Turn Signal Cancel Function?

Joined
25 April 2005
Messages
3,068
Location
Western PA
As I turn my car back into more of a daily-driver, I'm relatively happy with it except for one thing - The turn signal switch and early cancellation.

First, the switch action feels so cheap from a modern tactile design standpoint. Second, the indicator clicks off if you barely touch the steering wheel, and WAY before you make a turn. As someone who likes to use their signals, this really annoys me.

I've done an exhaustive search through this forum, but can't find how others may have addressed it. A lot have complained about the issue, but it seems to be commonly accepted.

On the other hand, a few others have experienced the opposite problem that the signals don't cancel (you can remove the signal module and clean the contacts, or just replace it).

Does anyone have a fix for the early cancellation please?
 
Premature cancellation? I think Pfizer is working on a drug for that. No, wait that is something else.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Do you have an asymmetrical cancelation problem (sounds like another Pfizer joke coming)? As in, early cancelation commonly occurs on left hand turns and rarely on right hand turns? If so, then that is in part due to the nature of the design of the system. The turn signal cancelation unit is triggered by two contacts actuated by a cam on the steering column shaft. The two contacts go through a series of off- on sequences as the wheel is turned and then on-off as the wheel is turned back. According to the service manual, the off-on sequence starts at 60 deg of steering wheel rotation (in either direction) and is completed at 90 deg of rotation. The turn signal cancelation controller 'counts' the off-on sequence as you turn the wheel past 60 deg to 90 deg and then counts the on-off sequence as you rotate back from > 90 deg to < 60 deg. When the controller determines that the full range of off-on followed by on-off has been completed, it cancels the signal. On right hand turns (in North America) you typically turn the steering wheel way past 90 deg and don't enter that 90-60 deg range until you are well through the corner. On left hand turns, the turning radius tends to be much larger with the result that the steering wheel may initially be turned to 90 deg or a little more; but, if there are any steering corrections the wheel may rotate back and if it rotates back to 60 deg, then it will cancel the signals. I find that this type of early cancellation is most common if you have a very large radius turn, typically if you are turning from a center left turn bay across 3-4 lanes of traffic. That 30 deg window from 90 to 60 deg is relatively small.

You should be ale to test the correct operation by doing static turns in your driveway. Engage the left signal and turn the steering wheel to the left by slightly more than 90 deg. Then slowly rotate the steering wheel back and watch for the cancelation point at 60 deg of rotation. If the cancelation is occurring at roughly 60 deg, it is pretty much operating as designed. If the cancelation is occurring at more than 60 deg (i.e. you have less than a 30 deg window) then you could have dirt on the switch contacts, wear on the contacts, wear on the thingies that ride on the cam and actuate the contacts or perhaps the cam / steering shaft has somehow become slightly offset due to some maintenance work.

If your early cancelation is not following this type of pattern, particularly if you get early cancelation on tight right hand corners, or cancellation without steering wheel movement, then something else is at play.

I suffer from the misery of premature cancellation turning left. About 5 years ago I pulled the contacts out for the controller and cleaned them up and lubed them. There was a fair amount of accumulated crud on the contacts. This cleaning seemed to largely eliminate the premature cancellation problem for a while (or wishful thinking that I had actually accomplished something). The cancelation problem is back. I don't think it is as bad as it was initially; but, it has definitely deteriorated. However, getting the contacts out to inspect and clean them if necessary involves getting under the dash to remove stuff and it is not that big of a problem that I am motivated to do that.
 
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Thanks for your reply.

The premature cancellation occurs if I barely touch the steering wheel, i.e. any movement greater than 5 degrees or so.

I've had the car for almost 14 years now. It sat for about three years during a major rebuild and now I'm able to drive it again. I don't remember it ever being like this before.

Last week I removed the turn signal cancel unit and checked it out. Caps looked good in the electronics unit (weren't leaking), and my slide switches performed smoothly (I cleaned them anyways). As expected, just cleaning them made no difference for the early cancellation problem.

I think I need to remove the unit again and check the electronics more thoroughly. What a pain to get to....
 
If the unit is initiating cancelation, my initial reaction is that the electronics are probably OK. Try doing the static test with the turn signals while the car is parked. Is the early cancelation problem consistent turning left and right? The 30 deg window between 90 deg and 60 deg before initiating cancelation might seem like a lot; but, is in fact relatively small amount of movement at the steering wheel rim. Any North American sedan up to the late seventies with worm - roller steering probably had way more than 30 deg of movement in the steering wheel in the dead ahead position.

If the early cancellation is consistent going left or right and you have less than that 30 deg window, then I think wear on the white blocks that contact the cam might result in a reduction in the size of the 30 deg window. The 30 deg window is narrow and small reductions in the window would probably be quite noticeable. I took some photos of mine when I did the cleaning. I will see if I saved them and if I did, I will post them so that you can compare.
 
For what it is worth.

The moving parts of the contacts. If the pointy end of the white pieces gets worn down, I think the 30 deg angle spread is going to be reduced making the unit more prone to early cancelation.

Sliding contacts.JPG


This is the contamination that was on the contact surface.
Dirt off of contacts.JPG


The fixed side of e switch contacts. I applied some contact lubricant which is designed to improve conductivity. I don't know whether this improved operation or not.

Switch contacts.JPG
 
Thanks again for your help. I did check the operation beginning on page 23-210 of the old SM before digging into this issue.

To answer your question if the system was operating as designed - I would say it only works correctly (the rough angular estimates due to the cam/follower design) about 20% of the time... turning right or left.

I didn't take pictures of the cam followers, but the tips did not look worn. The contacts were relatively clean, but I cleaned them, polished with a rubber eraser, cleaned again, and reassembled with dielectric grease. When placed back in service it resulted in no changes to the turn signal operation.

The more I think about this, I believe it is a problem with the solenoid in the turn signal switch or the switch itself. I guess that's the next thing to take apart and check out.
 
This probably isn't the source of your problem; but, for future reference, dielectric grease is an electrical insulator with high breakdown strength. The hot ticket for spark plug boots / COPs when you want to seal out moisture and prevent high voltage flashover. Not the hot ticket for improving the operation of electrical contacts.

I look forward with interest to your investigation of the switch mechanism. Based upon the description in the service manual, I had dismissed it as an individual component that probably operated correctly or not at all. Not as something that could lead to erratic operation. It will be interesting to see what you find.

I don't suppose on some off chance that you took a photo of the internals of the turn signal cancellation unit? Your comment about the electrolytic capacitors being OK surprised me. I had presumed that the cancellation unit would just be a set of logic gates (probably flip flops) which were set and reset by the operation of the cam operated switches. That kind of stuff normally would not call for electrolytic capacitors. Clearly something else is at play. Perhaps there is a timer element in the controller to help filter out erratic motion in the steering wheel.
 
I don't think I've run across anything in the auto parts stores that I can recall for electrical contact lube - do you have a recommendation please? Thanks.
 
I don't think I've run across anything in the auto parts stores that I can recall for electrical contact lube - do you have a recommendation please? Thanks.

Home Depot sells a little tube of conducting grease called Oxgard. Its normally used on compression electrical connections to improve the connection and block oxidation of the connection. Does the trick on ignition switches if they are starting to perform erratically; but, are not obviously broken. Use it judiciously, more is not necessarily better.


There are other products similar to Oxgard; but, not necessarily available at the retail level or in retail quantities (i.e. need a gallon of the stuff?).
 
I no longer have to worry about early cancellation bothering me. Now they don't cancel at all. After 14 years of early cancellation, I actually like having to manually cancel now. We'll see how long that lasts :smile:
 
😂😂😂

I was hoping for a solution as I have the same early cancellation (only left turn). As soon as I turn the wheel, turn signal get cancelled. I've lived with it for last 7 years. I guess I'll wait another 7 more years for it to completely stop 🤣


I no longer have to worry about early cancellation bothering me. Now they don't cancel at all. After 14 years of early cancellation, I actually like having to manually cancel now. We'll see how long that lasts :smile:
 
I no longer have to worry about early cancellation bothering me. Now they don't cancel at all. After 14 years of early cancellation, I actually like having to manually cancel now. We'll see how long that lasts :smile:

You are definitely a glass half full kind of guy!
 
This part was for sale in the appropriate section [h=2]Switch Unit Combination 35285-SL0-A01[/h]Would this fix the issue, as I too have that problem and for $200, it isn't that expensive.


91 NSX Red/Black
 
This part was for sale in the appropriate section Switch Unit Combination 35285-SL0-A01

Would this fix the issue, as I too have that problem and for $200, it isn't that expensive.


91 NSX Red/Black

Which problem? Early cancellation or Mac Attack's new problem of no cancellation?

If its early cancellation, I would try disassembly of the switch and cleaning it first and check the operation of the contacts before replacing the cancellation unit. I think early cancellation is a bit of a design flaw with the NSX as I recall that there were some owners who replaced the switch with no material improvement. I cleaned up my switch and my initial perception was that it improved things; but, probably not. I think it was more a version of what the psychologists call conformational bias.

$200 USD is a really good price. Most discount vendors seem to be listing it around $275.
 
Which problem? Early cancellation or Mac Attack's new problem of no cancellation?

If its early cancellation, I would try disassembly of the switch and cleaning it first and check the operation of the contacts before replacing the cancellation unit. I think early cancellation is a bit of a design flaw with the NSX as I recall that there were some owners who replaced the switch with no material improvement. I cleaned up my switch and my initial perception was that it improved things; but, probably not. I think it was more a version of what the psychologists call conformational bias.

$200 USD is a really good price. Most discount vendors seem to be listing it around $275.

I have the early cancellation problem. It’s not every time, but most of the time. I keep my hand on signal turner whenever I turn a corner and I’ve kinda gotten used to it. Lol
I will have to have a look at this when I pull the car out of storage.

91 NSX Red/Black
 
I'm having the same issue with my 92. Left hand turns are definitely worse than right- cancellation is almost immediate.
 
I have had this issue many times and have fixed it by cleaning the contacts. In Old Guy's post above he shows a Qtip, all dirty. Once I clean the contacts and remove all the dielectric grease, I use a #2 pencil eraser to clean the circuit board contact area. This has always solved it for me:).

HTH,
LarryB
 
I have had this issue many times and have fixed it by cleaning the contacts. In Old Guy's post above he shows a Qtip, all dirty. Once I clean the contacts and remove all the dielectric grease, I use a #2 pencil eraser to clean the circuit board contact area. This has always solved it for me:).

HTH,
LarryB

Thanks Larry. I will clean it when I have the steering wheel off for the Type-S conversion. Do you re-grease or leave bare metal?
 
Thanks Larry. I will clean it when I have the steering wheel off for the Type-S conversion. Do you re-grease or leave bare metal?

I have always left it dry, never had anyone return with a failure......
 
I have always left it dry, never had anyone return with a failure......

I'm thinking that's what I should have done, or at least used Oxgard as Old Guy recommended. Cleaning, polishing the contacts with an eraser tip, and then applying a little bit of new dielectric grease did not help me. But since my signals don't even cancel anymore I think I have bigger issues in the electronic box. That's a future project since removing the steering column cover is a bit of a pain.
 
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