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anyone mount harness belts without the harness bar?

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Hi,

Has anyone mounted a harness belt, without using the harness bar? How did it fit? Do you think it's a waste of time/money?

I want it mainly for looks, but would also want it to work if I got into a crash. Is it better just to get the bar at the same time?

Thanks for any replies
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Richard
NSXTASY
 
You should stick to using the harness belt for track driving, in which case you definately need it mounted securely. Using a harness belt on the street is illegal in most areas and very impractical. Once the belt is snug, you have almost no body movement. It's hard to even reach the key to turn on the car. The first time you pull up to a T-junction, you won't be able to turn your body enough to see if there are cars coming. Also, police look for the shoulder belt to see if you're wearing a seatbelt, so when you have a harness belt on, the police are going to be harassing you more because they think you're driving w/o a belt.
 
Like Andrie says, it is possible to do with out the bar. I've seen several NSXes with eye bolts used backed with large reinforcement washers. You'll need to drill into your firewall.

-- Chris

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Thanks for the replies.

Isn't there a way to mount/connect/tie it to the seatback? I've seen (in pictures) cars that look like they're not using the bar, nor are they mounted to the back wall, but I'm not 100% sure. I dare not drill back there just for a seatbelt, I'd rather stick to stock. But if there's a way to do it without drilling, I'm all ears
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You do not want that degree of angle for the shoulder belts. In a frontal accident especially, the forward intertia will likely overcome the seat and allow your body to move forward, as if you were not wearing belts. Manufactures have different requirements. I've seen between 25-30 degrees max. Andrie may be able to give a better explanation.

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Chris is right. It is very important to mount the harnesses at the right angle and right point. Improper installation can cause harm. The belts should come with instruction to properly install them.

Just a general rule, the shoulder belts are usually mounted at the height of the shoulder, or slightly below.
 
I was wondering the same thing here....does anyone have any pics of mounting the harness belts without using a harness bar?

Some thoughts were using a 3 pt mounted from the B-pillar to the seat or using a 4 pt with the belts mounted to the 2 seat mount bolts behind the seat.
 
I remember the Flame Mobile / Doug H car had the belts into the firewall and I recall there were some pics in early stories on www.pulpracing.com

here is one small pic I found -
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1TITENSX said:
I was wondering the same thing here....does anyone have any pics of mounting the harness belts without using a harness bar?

Some thoughts were using a 3 pt mounted from the B-pillar to the seat or using a 4 pt with the belts mounted to the 2 seat mount bolts behind the seat.
 
I have been pulled over while just having the lap belt section buckled of my 5 pt harness (shoulder and sub NOT connected) and the cop never said anything that it was illegal! :D

NOTE ; DO NOT just attatch the shoulder belts to the seat. It will harm you badly in an accident. Even the I-hook's with washers thru the fire wall scares me. You want something that will NOT break/fail Remember us on the track are doing 140, and that is no different than hitting a car head-on at 70+ on the street. If you do the fire-wall deal, use huge 1 pc I-hooks, that form a full welded circle, not "bent" into a circle, and use a plate NOT a washer. A plate will be like a 3" x 3" square piece of metal.
 
Logic and the Law

Harnesses are not DOT legal because they are made for the track and not for the street, which are two very different operating environments. The law wants you wearing their approved "idiot-proof" seat belts while you are driving on "their" public roads. And there is some logic to that because how you install, adjust and buckle the harness is very critical to it's performance and your safety. I don't remember what the final analysis was on Earnhardt's fatal crash, but the belt supplier, Simpson, argued that the belt may not have been installed properly.

While at the track, it's your right to take some risks and and it's up to you (with a little help from tech) to get the harness installed, adjusted and buckled right, not only for you but for any other sized driver that puts it on. But on the street, the law is gonna "protect the average joe" and does not believe that he will get a harness put on right time and time again as they are constantly in and out of the car. DOT 3 points belts are a severe compromise, but they are convenient and the odds of screwing it up are lots less than a manually adjusted cumbersome harness. Now you may think you're not the "average joe", but the law does, and that's why the cops can give you a ticket for not wearing the stock 3 point belt.

Don't install a harness for looks.

And don't get us started on the "full harness without a roll cage" debate.
 
Re: Logic and the Law

92 white 0650 said:
Harnesses are not DOT legal because they are made for the track and not for the street, which are two very different operating environments.

There are street legal/DOT approved harnesses in the market such as Schroth. The Schroth Rallye line has been certified and meets the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) Standard No. 209 - Seat Belt Assemblies. For example Dodge Viper ACR and the Saleen S7 have OEM 5 point harnesses installed from the factory. “92 white 0650” is right about its cumbersome to wear it properly for an average Joe and more so for daily use. Head movement is extremely limited and shoulder movement is non-existence. Whether it is safer for street or track driving is another topic to be discussed.

Veleno,

If you want to install the 4, 5, 6 point harness for look, do not wear the harness, wear the OEM seat belt when you drive. For functionality I would rather install the harnesses with a harness bar than drilling through the firewall. The next generation NSX should equip with anchor points for harness installation. BTW there is an anchor behind the passenger seat for a child seat only.
 
Re: Logic and the Law

92 white 0650 said:
Harnesses are not DOT legal because they are made for the track and not for the street, which are two very different operating environments.

And don't get us started on the "full harness without a roll cage" debate.

Not going to get a debate started, but will state that police officers will pull you over in the state of CA, and possibly other states depending on the local laws, for wearing a race 4-pt or 5-pt or whatever-pt harness while operating a car on the public roads. Whether it's legal or not, they can and possibly will issue a citation for it, which you can later fight if you feel that you must. It's more of a safety issue where you cannot move as much and are pinned in the seat. On a track, it's a more controlled environment but if you've ever worn a harness and tighten yourself down to the seat, you'll find out that it's near impossible to turn your head to check your blind spots and move at all in the chair if/when needed while driving on the streets.

Kind of like having a full cage in the car and trying to drive it on the public streets.... blocks the view more than you think of your blind spots and the view to your side view mirrors, and that's in a Civic hatchback with very little blind spots :p .
 
robr said:
"BTW there is an anchor behind the passenger seat for a child seat only"

there is?!!?


robr,

Look it up on the on-line service manual page 20-40. You can get your #1 ready for a ride.
 
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