Apx wastegate spring

[SuperSonic]

Well I got my new spring. Bought a large yellow, which for Wills wastegate, is rated about 8.7 lbs. if anyone is wondering, the oem is small red. It is only good for 4.3 lbs. so, if you are wondering what spring it is, small red . What this means, at least according to a few people, is Wills inter cooled turbo is good for 3 lbs or so. because the turbo pushes air through a intercooler, you may loose a little psi if, like me, your reading off fpr. My problem is my car, with stock spring was only at 2 lbs, maybe 3 for a brief second but held at 2 lbs. so my theory is with an 8.7 lb spring I should be right at 8 lbs, the perfect level.

One question: I opened up wastegate, took out spring. Now I can push up valve easily. I push up, push down and air comes out the side port. So I push back up, cover hole and push down and air still gets out, but obviously not fast. There is that rubber ring, a few spots look like cracked or something, not necessarily ripped, but not smooth. Should the valve be able to be pushed in with my finger covering the hole? Granted the top wasn't on so maybe it wasn't sealed on it, but figured I'd ask so if this spring doesn't hold at least 8 lbs, it could be bad wastegate. Opinions guys.

I'm nervous and excited to see if the new spring works, since 8 is the perfect level. Should put the car right at 415-422 whp. Before at 9.3 lbs I was at 437, but the next spring would have put it way higher up so 8 will be just right.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Well I got my new spring. Bought a large yellow, which for Wills wastegate, is rated about 8.7 lbs. if anyone is wondering, the oem is small red. It is only good for 4.3 lbs. so, if you are wondering what spring it is, small red . What this means, at least according to a few people, is Wills inter cooled turbo is good for 3 lbs or so. because the turbo pushes air through a intercooler, you may loose a little psi if, like me, your reading off fpr. My problem is my car, with stock spring was only at 2 lbs, maybe 3 for a brief second but held at 2 lbs. so my theory is with an 8.7 lb spring I should be right at 8 lbs, the perfect level.

One question: I opened up wastegate, took out spring. Now I can push up valve easily. I push up, push down and air comes out the side port. So I push back up, cover hole and push down and air still gets out, but obviously not fast. There is that rubber ring, a few spots look like cracked or something, not necessarily ripped, but not smooth. Should the valve be able to be pushed in with my finger covering the hole? Granted the top wasn't on so maybe it wasn't sealed on it, but figured I'd ask so if this spring doesn't hold at least 8 lbs, it could be bad wastegate. Opinions guys.

I'm nervous and excited to see if the new spring works, since 8 is the perfect level. Should put the car right at 415-422 whp. Before at 9.3 lbs I was at 437, but the next spring would have put it way higher up so 8 will be just right.

Was the top on when you did this? If not was the diaphragm properly sealed? Was air leaking by the diaphragm or by the valve? It is somewhat normal for a wastegate to have air leak by the valve up to a certain point of course and nothing I would worry about too much. I'm used to Tial wastegates of course, not sure what brand Angus uses in his kits though, the design could be completely different.

 

[doc_tai]

Show us picture of it, would be great. Without cell phone this day I would take picture of everything

 

[SuperSonic]

Was the top on when you did this? If not was the diaphragm properly sealed? Was air leaking by the diaphragm or by the valve? It is somewhat normal for a wastegate to have air leak by the valve up to a certain point of course and nothing I would worry about too much. I'm used to Tial wastegates of course, not sure what brand Angus uses in his kits though, the design could be completely different.

Top was off, like I said possibly not sealed as with the new fatty spring if I can manage to push the rod in, the suction from the valve would pull myblood through skin lol. And it was a much slower rate. If I had to guess, I'd say it's a tial style. Spring in middle of a cone, diaphragm around it, place top on with 8 bolts. It's on car now (pain in ass to get that 1 nut off Will lol, the one where the manifold has to be dented to get a wrench on it haha). Only thing I'm thinking next is not turbo related. Wheels could stick 5-10 mm out more and look perfect, but with stock studs, spacers then wheel on, is that really enough thread on the stud to safely hold the wheel?

And doc, I want to post a pic but unless I missed something, prime is a bitch to post on. I think I had to get a Flickr account, which I maxed free pics out on, just to use the http link to post a pic here. That or it's a little thumb nail attachment otherwise.

Really, I made this thread just to FYI everyone Wills spring is small red. That why if you want more boost its easier to take wastegate apart off car than put turbo on and take it off. Plus, Will convinced me it's better to use a spring than mbc for me at least. I'm not upping boost on fly (unless it involves smashing on les) so take out a mbc out equation in regards to boost. IMO I was at 9.3 lbs before, my spring is good for 8.7, so a little under at a constant 8.2 I'm happy or a little over at 9.2 still works better than adjusting mbc based on air being hot or cold. I just hope my old spring was bad, not wastegate itself since turbo not smoking and holds constant 2 psi w/out mbc, 6-7 with it, all clamps good. The holding psi tells me system is sealed, no smoke says turbo good along with constant pressure, bov swapped and same result. I'll know sat if spring was the trick. If so, it will feel good to regain that 65 hp lost!! That loss puts me in sc hp range.... Les can't catch wind of this lol.

 

[Cozmo]

Why didn't you just put in a boost controller instead of messing with springs?

 

[SuperSonic]

Why didn't you just put in a boost controller instead of messing with springs?

This guy lol. Where have you been . long story short I did. But even fully closed it was at 9 psi. Then a few months later 6 psi. Took it off car only hit 2 if I was lucky 3 psi. Wills spring is a 4 pound spring. So without mbc only hitting a solid 2 psi something wrong. I told Will. I checked and tightened all hoses and clamps, swaped 2 bovs, changed filter, pressure tested intercooler (20 ish psi from charge pipe by turbo to top intercooler coupler, bought wrong size PVC to cap upper pipe) and with mbc 6 if I opened it 2 more turns 7 lbs briefly but a solid 6 otherwise. Without it solid 2 lbs. so, turbo not smoking, there is really only wastegate to control when to release pressure really and with stable 2 or 6 lbs, me and Will figured the spring may be worn or mbc was jacked up. Point is now I better hit 8 lbs. with no mbc it takes the what if out of picture. Just solid line from turbo to wastegate. Plus I don't have to adjust for hot and cold. Maybe it's only 6-7 vs 8-9 because it was synced around 70 degrees vs 85 last time. No mbc means no opening less on a day dependent on temp. Just let spring hit 8.7 when it does. Seems more constant IMO.

 

[Cozmo]

Sorry I wasn't following this entire situation. I don't read this forum a whole lot any more. My first controller rusted shut. That could've ended very badly.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Sorry I wasn't following this entire situation. I don't read this forum a whole lot any more. My first controller rusted shut. That could've ended very badly.

This is what boost cut is for.

Anyways it's tough to tell but I wouldn't be surprised if the boost controller wasn't nulled proper. Also just because a spring is a "4 psi spring" this isn't an exact science there are a lot of variables at play here. If your have a lot of pressure drop across an intercooler or not at lot you could get different pressure. Theoretically high exhaust pressures could reduce boost pressures too by applying pressure to valve assisting lift which I doubt is an issue for you at all. Also I'm surprised it's only making 2psi. Most setups can't make so little boost. Many times even at positive pressure it can be easier to go through the turbocharger at low boost levels than going through the wastegate port.

 

[doc_tai]

U wanna get 8.7 psi out of 8.7 psi spring without intercooler pressure drop, just hook up wg hose to vaccuum hose on intake madifold or anywhere after the intercooler

 

[angus]

U wanna get 8.7 psi out of 8.7 psi spring without intercooler pressure drop, just hook up wg hose to vaccuum hose on intake madifold or anywhere after the intercooler

This.

 

[SuperSonic]

This.

I didn't think of that! Good idad. Then even if have ic or not, wastegate won't open till what my boost gauge shows. Question, I basically have everything off fpr. From fpr it Ts one to boost gauge which T's to fic. On other side of fpr, it T's to TB and also to blow off valve. Should I T again to same line as boost or split them up and use a new port from Tb, then just plug nipple on turbo?

 

[SuperSonic]

Oh, and the spring is in, but I haven't opened it up lol. The fear has got to me lol. I hit 5k and 1/2 throttle and hit 6 psi. If I slam it and hold it it should hit 8-9. But the fear. I gotta do it though eventually haha. Then jump for joy or get pissed.

 

[Valhalla]

Come on you chicken, open her up! It's only money after all.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

When you get to 5k hit the brakes as you apply throttle. It will work like a loading dyno.
Try it 3-4 times. Report back.

 

[doc_tai]

I didn't think of that! Good idad. Then even if have ic or not, wastegate won't open till what my boost gauge shows. Question, I basically have everything off fpr. From fpr it Ts one to boost gauge which T's to fic. On other side of fpr, it T's to TB and also to blow off valve. Should I T again to same line as boost or split them up and use a new port from Tb, then just plug nipple on turbo?

Or u can use the vaccuum line that used to connect to PVC valve on front valve cover. Most people use catch can just have that vaccuum line plug up.

 

[Valhalla]

So? What happened?

 

[SuperSonic]

So? What happened?

After I just called you and told you where I work now, you forgot I won't EVER take car to work lol. I'll open it up sat, then if boost isn't 8 I will relocate line.

Speaking about catch cans, do any of you guys use them. Not thinking about that "vent" line, I put a filter on the front set since wills pipe doesn't have a spot for that or 2000 up air pumps. I need to check it to make sure filter isn't clogged with blow by lol.

 

[Valhalla]

I know your work schedule and also know you don't work but 3 hours per day so there is still plenty of time to take a ride even if you don't take it to work.

 

[SuperSonic]

I know your work schedule and also know you don't work but 3 hours per day so there is still plenty of time to take a ride even if you don't take it to work.

Ouch, 3 hrs lol. I am there 8, 10, sometimes 12 lol. When you handle it like a boss, all that matters is its done

 

[LMR]

Ouch, 3 hrs lol. I am there 8, 10, sometimes 12 lol. When you handle it like a boss, all that matters is its done

You may be at work for 8, 10, 12 hours but you only work for maybe 3 of those hours.:wink:

 

[kookoo4nsx]

WTF? Let's get back to FI talk.

 

[SuperSonic]

Update: damn lol. Car only got to 6 psi BUT, I didn't have time to re-route wastegate line from turbo to tb. I have the hoses, T lines and just need a cap for turbo and other end of a T since the wastegate hose is bigger, I need to use a T that fits the bigger hose that goes to a smaller out for the rest of the lines. I think I'm going to tap my fpr line...... Again. It should make everything a constant reading. What the boost gauge says will be a direct result of the fic reading, the fpr reading, and now the wastegate along with it T'd into the blow off valve. I like the idea of using the fpr line to split one going to boost and fic, other going to blow off valve to show me on a gauge what everything is reading, but don't like the idea of running everything off one line that is going to be T'd 4 times lol. Guess it won't matter since the system has to pressurize all the same anyways. 3 rd attempt is always a charm...... Or is it 5th lol. What ever. I just want to be able to hang with the gtr's we socalers rolled with today.

 

[SuperSonic]

New update: followed by more questions to learn more.

To start. This is what happened. I T'ed..... Again the fpr line. Immediately noticed that the boost gauge was showing a vacuum of 18, when it should be at 22. So I started to drive anyways, and noticed that the Gage was showing vacuum as being lower than normal. I then got onto the freeway, and after about 30 seconds of driving the car would shoot lean, and will start to sputter out. I assume something must have been wrong, well I guess it was obvious. So, I get home, and I plug the T that I initially started that I ran for the wastegate. I drove the car around, no boost, with that line capped off. The car drove just fine, just like it did before. at Idle, the vacuum was back at 20 or 22. so I thought, the wastegate itself, or somehow the line must not be good. Then, I got the idea, to just use one of the lines that I had already capped off. When I put the turbo on, I removed the vvis plate. Since removing it, I had an open line on the vacuum port. I figured, it wouldn't hurt, to try and use that line. I assumed that since the line was used to open the valve for the vvis plate, it might serve as a good point.

Now this is what happened, I got on the freeway, punched it, and it hit somewhere around 9 psi. That is the correct psi it should be..... Give or take. Now here's the thing, is the vacuum port that I used was an un-used good port. I looked at the shop manual I have, the number 2 vaccumm line I used goes into that control box, flows through a series of tubes, and then comes back out which would then be used for the vvis plate. The car drove normal with the wastegate hooked there vs T'ed into the already T several times fpr line.

My question is will this line work. I noticed there is a small air box and check valve and stuff between the number 2 line until it exits as the number 3. I assumed it should be fine since the vvis is operated by vaccumm.

Now if you say it will work, 2 more questions
1. Why connecting it there was my vacuume good at 22 vs connected to fpr with everything else it was 18?

2. If the wastegate now has an 8.7 lb spring, what is the point of the line anyways? I assume to help open it. If that is the case, will being connected to port 3 with that air box thing mess up boost vs vaccumm since the small air box has to fill with air?

I didn't want to tap the MAF line, and the other line was the same as this one except the pressure went to the egr instead of the vvis... And my vvis port was open anyways.

So with everyone's advice my car may be what it should. But why would tapping the fpr line drop the vacuume? If its all a closed system? My only guess is there were too many lines off just 1 line. If that is the case, should I run other lines off that as well or leave them as they are since the car is running fine with the set up the way it was before.

So, get all the questions lol
1. Is line 3 ok
2. Why did vacuume drop after T-ing fpr but not using port 3?
3. Should I run more connections off line 3 to relieve the fpr line?
4. What's the point of the line to wastegate anyways if spring is rated for 8.7
5. Lastly, assuming port 3 works, I should be able to hold car at wot and stay around 9 psi right. I'm afraid port 3 doesn't work and it's like I'm not running a wastegate at all in a sense since I don't understand how a closed system would matter if I tap fpr line or give wastegate it's own line?

I would have asked Wil these personally but thought it best to post here so others going turbo can see my progression and help them do what they need to to get their system running perfect. No sense in 20 other people asking Wil what could be wrong if this happened to them. i figure this is a good way to learn and share what the effects of running multiple vacuume lines can do and if it's safe to run off certain ports.

Thanks guys for all the help thus far. Between what I learn here and making mistakes working on the car, lots of people can learn from me lol.

 

[Cozmo]

Did you check for leaks using a vacuum pump? The vvis is operated based on engine rpms. I wouldn't use that line for anything else.

 

[SuperSonic]

Did you check for leaks using a vacuum pump? The vvis is operated based on engine rpms. I wouldn't use that line for anything else.

You sure it's not based on engine load? Using vaccumm to open it or close it would be based on load, no? As in if you run your car with a boost gauge you will see that even at 6k rpm with 10 percent throttle, the gauge will still show -16 aka vaccumm. That means the plate in the vvis should be almost fully open at 6k, yet the load on the engine tells it it should be closed to give more torque. That's my thoughts at least based off what the everyone says that the vaccumm source should be the same across the board, weather it's for fpr, egr, or vvis. I assumed since I already had so many lines off just the one fpr that it was causing "lag" of the flow. Plus, in order to tie the wastegate into the tb, I had to keep the bigger diameter hose that is about a foot long and T that into a smaller tube like the rest of the hoses. I thought that too may have affected the vaccumm.
So far, it idles fine. Gauge shows -20 to -22 at idle. Boost won't show 8.7 just 8 (7.5-8.4) or 9(8.5-9.4) if we are rounding. Guess the last step will be to hold it and if it hits 10 let off fast. not the best way but out of options lol.

For any other apx turbos out there, I will say you can feel every psi: 2 psi was like where's my turbo, 6 psi was advancing past the sc guys, 9 psi....watch out gtr. The next step for me will be wastegate fails or line 3 wrong at 11-12 psi boom motor.....that or holds at 9 ish and I'm back to 100 percent happy. Go big or go home right haha