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Are you still LOST?
- Thread starter tosugrad
- Start date
- Joined
- 20 January 2004
- Messages
- 722
Yeah, good finale but they left so much unanswered. I understand they want to leave some things a mystery, for whatever reason, but after seeing every episode over the course of six years I was still left with a bunch of questions. The backstory of Jacob and Smokey's 'mother' is never explained, the energy pockets, time travel, Desmond's unique abilities, Hurley's and Miles' commune with the dead, how Whidmore or Elly originally find the island, the origin of the light @ the center of the island, how Dharma/Degruttes/Hanso got involved, how the others originally got to the island, etc. When Desmond pulls the rock out of the hole and Locke hits Jack in the head with the rock, why doesn't he finish him off? Clearly he is allowed to kill any protector of the island other than Jacob (when he was alive), and Jack gets the jump on him minutes later b/c he didn't kill when when he was unconcious. What was the origin of the temple and what was Togem doing? What was the true origin of the numbers? When the numbers weren't entered by Locke and the hatch imploded, if Desmond hadn't turned the failsafe key...the world would have actually ended? By what means? Why weren't Desmond or Jack turned into smoke monsters after entering the light and water (maybe b/c Jack was already protector, but Desmond? His resistance to electromagnetism?) The flashes sideways...now that they all had Deja Vu, is that reality occuring as well, or is it simply a glimpse into what might be? The end, where Jack reunites with his father in the church, was deeply moving for me. My father is gone and I can only hope he's there to greet me when my time comes. That would be something. :smile:
I only watched on occasion. My take on the finale was that they were all dead to begin with. Otherwise this show was nothing more than a Gilligan's Island.
I'm so happy I quit after season 2. Ugh...
Frankly, I am disappointed. I agree with TurboLexus; not that we needed the answers for all, but I was expecting far more intellectual depth in the conclusion even if it would have been the writers' perspective on leaving things a bit hanging ........ the mythology of good vs. evil, the purported parallel universes or the afterlife ........ Christopher Shepard's "there is no now in here" was the ideal setting to further that theme ............ and Jack being the hero at the end after John pretty much stole the show this entire season (excellent acting in my view) was kind of poor ending if not lame ............
But this show has been great for some quality family time; priceless when you have grown up kids :biggrin:
But this show has been great for some quality family time; priceless when you have grown up kids :biggrin:
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Well I'm disappointed as well. They basically explained nothing at all. Also, I seem to remember the writers saying at one point that they were not all dead.
I suspect since they wrote it as they went along that they basically concluded that there could be no real explanation that tied everything together and made sense. So they write a feel good kind of reunion episode and left everything open.
It was a good series though and I did enjoy it very much. I was just kind of hoping for that "Of course! That explains it all!" kind of moment.
I suspect since they wrote it as they went along that they basically concluded that there could be no real explanation that tied everything together and made sense. So they write a feel good kind of reunion episode and left everything open.
It was a good series though and I did enjoy it very much. I was just kind of hoping for that "Of course! That explains it all!" kind of moment.
I watched the last episode of season 6. Honestly I can see how the conclusion explains lots of little questions I've had with the story recently, but it leaves 5 seasons of crap still in the air.
Re: I want some
of what the writers were smoking. I said that 5 years ago. They laughed all the way to the bank. :redface:
of what the writers were smoking. I said that 5 years ago. They laughed all the way to the bank. :redface:
I watched this show religously (no poun intended) for the last 6 years... It ended pretty much the way I expected... not many answers and ending with another "what the hell moment". I could buy the whole ALT timeline purgatory theory, and while it doesnt do much for me, I could buy it... except for the fact as the ending credits are rolling, they show the plane wreckage on the beach, which was cleaned up in the series, and it looks to me like there were no signs of life, which make me think they died in the crash and the whole time on the island was a purgatory also. But... if that was the case, then they wouldnt have had such emotional meetings in the church, because they would not have had formed deep relationships. I need to rewatch it about 6 more times.
Did anyone watch the alternate endings on JKL afterwards? They were pretty funny.
Did anyone watch the alternate endings on JKL afterwards? They were pretty funny.
I agree with Tedro that the writers are having the last laugh all the way to the bank ...... but the purgatory argument is a too simplistic cop-out given the themes and how the script was developing. The island being purgatory doesn't resonate with me.
I basically agree with NSX-Stalker, while initially the writers seemed to have some focus of using well known literally figures (names) - perhaps with the idea of creating some complex intertwined plots all leading to one climactic resolution metaphorically pertinent to today's social issues, in the end it appears that the writers may have indeed ".. wrote it as they went along that they basically concluded that there could be no real explanation that tied everything together and made sense."
Having said this, the opportunity that such a series has offered diehard LOST groupies can't be minimized in speculating perhaps another "visit" in a few years as a sequel
In one of our suburbs here, people had parties dressed up as the characters on the show ..... one even had a baby doll and acting like Claire!
I still think LOST could have notched the ending up with more focus on the mythological or even metaphorical struggle between X and Y (if we do not wish to state it as good vs. evil) ..... the island story was ripe for all the speculative "planet green" spinoffs re the healing/curative nature of "nature" ........ or how Jack would come out as the white smoke once clashing with the black smoke (presumably his alter - the ying/yang) ........... John not finishing off Jack was totally bogus and lame ........
I basically agree with NSX-Stalker, while initially the writers seemed to have some focus of using well known literally figures (names) - perhaps with the idea of creating some complex intertwined plots all leading to one climactic resolution metaphorically pertinent to today's social issues, in the end it appears that the writers may have indeed ".. wrote it as they went along that they basically concluded that there could be no real explanation that tied everything together and made sense."
Having said this, the opportunity that such a series has offered diehard LOST groupies can't be minimized in speculating perhaps another "visit" in a few years as a sequel
In one of our suburbs here, people had parties dressed up as the characters on the show ..... one even had a baby doll and acting like Claire!I still think LOST could have notched the ending up with more focus on the mythological or even metaphorical struggle between X and Y (if we do not wish to state it as good vs. evil) ..... the island story was ripe for all the speculative "planet green" spinoffs re the healing/curative nature of "nature" ........ or how Jack would come out as the white smoke once clashing with the black smoke (presumably his alter - the ying/yang) ........... John not finishing off Jack was totally bogus and lame ........
so sounds to me like my original decision to never watch was a good one.My analytical mind would just get too pissed off trying to create a unified theory on all this gobaltygook.Just you wait I'm sure there will be a major movie based on the series just like the X files ,and the Star Trek franchise.
perpetural uncharted island story. It would never end, so final episode, not a "conclusion".
I prefered Gilligan. really the same perpetural uncharted island story. except Kate is better than Mary Ann or Ginger!
I prefered Gilligan. really the same perpetural uncharted island story. except Kate is better than Mary Ann or Ginger!
- Joined
- 27 June 2003
- Messages
- 4,618
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sho...ut-the-series-finales-plane-crash-images.html
The images at the end of LOST had nothing to do with the story....
In the alternate universe, everyone is dead... but not in the universe where everyone was on the island. that was real... got it?
The light in the middle of the island is life / good etc and the smoke monster is death / evil... just take it for what it is and don't over think it. A lot of the episodes don't really make much sense in the grand scheme of things.
The images at the end of LOST had nothing to do with the story....
In the alternate universe, everyone is dead... but not in the universe where everyone was on the island. that was real... got it?
The light in the middle of the island is life / good etc and the smoke monster is death / evil... just take it for what it is and don't over think it.
A lot of the episodes don't really make much sense in the grand scheme of things.
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I thought this was helpful, especially coming from someone who supposedly works for bad robot:
This from a poster on a Bills meassge board who works at Bad Robot
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John Adam's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer.
This from a poster on a Bills meassge board who works at Bad Robot
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John Adam's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer.
Wow.
I've enjoyed Lost since the beginning (even bought the first five seasons on Bluray and re-watched the whole thing before season six started). I would come home from workand my daughter would ask, "Are we going to get Lost tonight?". Good times.
I'm going to take a little break, buy season six when it comes out in August, and do it all over again.
A little less confused,
Matt
I've enjoyed Lost since the beginning (even bought the first five seasons on Bluray and re-watched the whole thing before season six started). I would come home from workand my daughter would ask, "Are we going to get Lost tonight?". Good times.
I'm going to take a little break, buy season six when it comes out in August, and do it all over again.
A little less confused,
Matt
