bbsc problem

[BoostedH23a1]

is the problem with the bbsc just the engine management or is it the charger and other parts associated with the charger. from what i hear it sounds mainly like the tuning... so would it be safe..safer to get that and run something like the AEM EMS? sorry if its a noob question

 

[NetViper]

You should talk to Armando (miamieNeSeX). He has a very good BBSC system using the AEM. But to answer your question, the problems with the BBSC, to the best of my knowledge, are in fuel management.

 

[BoostedH23a1]

thats what i would think as well, thanks

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

thats what i would think as well, thanks

Boost is Boost my friend, be it SC or Turbo, the magic is in the tuning as Mr red calipers stated spend some money on your fuel management and tuning and you will be a happy camper.

Armando

 

[peiserg]

Boost is Boost my friend, be it SC or Turbo, the magic is in the tuning as Mr red calipers stated spend some money on your fuel management and tuning and you will be a happy camper.

Armando

agreed.

also, might want to spend some $$ on an aftercooler (be it turbo, GMSC or BBSC) for insurance purposes.

I'm OBD 2, so my only option is the ssbb. which, so far, (5000+/- miles) has worked well. but i'd think the AEM is the way to go, if you have the cash and a good tuner.

 

[newtyp]

I agree with Armando (miamieNeSeX).

When going with either Turbo or SC on a non-forced induction vehicle, a good aftermarket EMS unit such as AEM is the safest and best bet in building power and aims towards reliability. Though be reminded that you will need to allocate time, funds and an open understanding in tuning and improving drivability.

However with my Basch SC installed this past Oct and having the time to fine tune the AEM myself, I have driven thus far 4000 miles and attended a full day at Lime Rock Park, CT without a problem. Thus proving in my opinion the reliability and controllability features going with an advanced EMS unit.

Ken

 

[Yellow Rose]

First off to the moderator of this thread - I DO NOT appreciate you deleting my first post last night, where I asked the originator of this thread if his question is mechanical in nature or electronic in nature.

Assuming this post does not get deleted, I will say that since the BBSC has been out for two years now (I have 25,000 miles on mine) that with the current version there are no "problems" per se. Sure, you will have an issue here and there, just like buying a car that has been on the road for a while. But just like any car manufacturer has a learning curve with a new vehicle, the major kinks have been worked out with the BBSC.

I strongly disagree with the position that the BBSC, in and of itself, has fuel management issues. Let's take the BBSC with the AEM option. The AEM box could care less if the boost is coming from a supercharger or a turbocharger. If the tuner doesn't know what he is doing, then how can it be argued that the problem is with the BBSC? Hello, the problem is with the AEM! Let's say we have the BBSC with SS option - same argument applies.

Mechanically - early on, there were shaft bearing issues that have long since been resolved.

Moderator, the above is exactly why I asked BoostedH23a1 if his question was mechanical or electronic. Please leave this post alone!!!!!

 

[NetViper]

I strongly disagree with the position that the BBSC, in and of itself, has fuel management issues.

Andy, I guess you are referring to my post here. What I meant was that the majority of problems with the BBSC I have heard about have come from fuel management and that the AEM was a good solution to resovle the issues and be "safe". The Latest SS Box might also do the same thing.

As far as the latest SS box etc, I really haven't heard much about it in a long time. Maybe someone who has purchased one lately can chime in.

 

[NSX Prime]

First off to the moderator of this thread - I DO NOT appreciate you deleting my first post last night, ...

Moderator, the above is exactly why I asked BoostedH23a1 if his question was mechanical or electronic. Please leave this post alone!!!!!

Andy - I have not deleted any messages in this thread.

 

[newtyp]

Net Viper,

Yes, past problems have been electronics, similar to many other past and present kits from other vendors and automobiles. As factory ECU’s become more advanced, it definitely takes more technology to control these systems.

However the current Split Second Box is very good, just still limited due to factory ECU parameters ex. Injector driver control. Therefore, I just chose to go with the AEM thinking two things, further advancement in boost, built motor and more control overall since a standalone EMS has no limitations as compared to a piggy back unit.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Mark911]

Let's also not forget the MANY past threads on HOW the BBSC makes it's power (once the fuel/ign is happy). In general, centrifugal S/Ced based systems tend to emphasis torque and HP at mid to highest rpm levels. By comparison, turbo or positive displacement S/Cers typically make more torque and HP at lower to mid rpms and the same or slightly less in the upper regions (less for sure in the PD S/Cer case). This is a direct result of the how the centrifugal compressor moves air (turbo or S/Ced). The flow is not linier with turbine speed but exponential. For example, at 40,000 rpm a centrifugal may produce X cfm, but at 80,000 rpm it produces 3X (numbers are for explanation purposes only). This is no problem for the turbo since it’s turbine speed is not linked to engine speed, but the BBSC is! As you can imagine, this makes for a more lazy lower and mid range (by comparison) but it comes on real strong on top! That’s just the nature of a belt driven centrifugal S/Cer. There are ways to mitigate this situation by careful compressor selection , but it’s still going to be a compromise. Don’t get my wrong, the other forms of FI also have inherent issues where compromise is necessary as well. It simply boils down to the particular compromise you don’t mind living with. I'd ask yourself where (in the rpm range) do you spend most of your time during a spirited drive. If you don't like to rev her out tight in every gear you might find a centrifugal based S/C system not to your liking. You really need to drive all the FI system options as they do have their own personalities. Mark

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

This is no problem for the turbo since it’s turbine speed is not linked to engine speed, but the BBSC is! . Mark

So by your words your turbo system produces the same boost at idle as it does at 8200 rpm? I think I will disagree and say the turbos also depend on engine speed (RPM) higher rpm means more exhaust means more boost, I will agree that the Turbos are more efficient down low , and all of the FI systems have their drawbacks. Except mine of course


Armando

 

[KGP]

So by your words your turbo system produces the same boost at idle as it does at 8200 rpm?

Come on, Armando. He didn't say that.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

This is no problem for the turbo since it’s turbine speed is not linked to engine speed, but the BBSC is! Mark

Your right he didnt say it, He typed it. . Cant get anything by you, thats why you make the big bucks being the MODERATOR another word for playground bully


Armando

 

[KGP]

Sorry, but I'm only a moderator for the marketplace, which incidently draws little appreciation. I do it to help with the integrity of the forum, pure and simple. I think it's time to toss that flea bitten routine away. Please volunteer yourself.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Sorry, but I'm only a moderator for the marketplace, which incidently draws little appreciation. I do it to help with the integrity of the forum, pure and simple. I think it's time to toss that flea bitten routine away. Please volunteer yourself.

Sounds good to me but you think Lud is give me the key to the liquor cabinet? LOL


Armando

 

[KGP]

... but you think Lud is give me the key to the liquor cabinet? LOL

Why wouldn't he? You have a "Great Reputation." :tongue:

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Why wouldn't he? You have a "Great Reputation." :tongue:

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Time to piss off some people then.

Armando

 

[Mark911]

So by your words your turbo system produces the same boost at idle as it does at 8200 rpm? I think I will disagree and say the turbos also depend on engine speed (RPM) higher rpm means more exhaust means more boost, I will agree that the Turbos are more efficient down low , and all of the FI systems have their drawbacks. Except mine of course


Armando

Actually, a turbo's speed is more a function of engine load (throttle position) then RPM, but I agree that rpm does pay a role, just not nearly as big (or lets say direct) a function as with the other FI systems. Mark

 

[lexandro]

I Am Not Very Familiar Whit This System, I Have A Nsx And I Whant To Do Some Up Grade In The Engine, Someone Could Tell Me Something About The Scienceofspeed 3.3l Custom Engine Package, I Am Looking For A Lot Hp But Safe To, And Real

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

I Am Not Very Familiar Whit This System, I Have A Nsx And I Whant To Do Some Up Grade In The Engine, Someone Could Tell Me Something About The Scienceofspeed 3.3l Custom Engine Package, I Am Looking For A Lot Hp But Safe To, And Real

...I would call Factor X motorsports! They don't "outsource" the engine work but do everything in-house with great history in engine building...that's always been their forte' ...not selling aftermarket shifters and guages. And if you look at everything they offer their 3.3L high-po N/A package is fairly competitvely priced...and most importantly you are assured the best in the business is taking care of you should you encounter ANY issues with their service to your car. I highly suggest you look at/call them. www.factorxengineering.com

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

I agree with you, Factor X has great backing and talent. They are great guys!

But, you're incorrect in your implications that there is a difference in outsourcing. FactorX, like many shops, including ScienceofSpeed depend on experienced machine shops and head tuners to assist in the development and production of the engine packages.



Cheers,
-- Chris

...I would call Factor X motorsports! They don't "outsource" the engine work but do everything in-house with great history in engine building...that's always been their forte' ...not selling aftermarket shifters and guages. And if you look at everything they offer their 3.3L high-po N/A package is fairly competitvely priced...and most importantly you are assured the best in the business is taking care of you should you encounter ANY issues with their service to your car. I highly suggest you look at/call them. www.factorxengineering.com

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

I agree with you, Factor X has great backing and talent. They are great guys!

But, you're incorrect in your implications that there is a difference in outsourcing. FactorX, like many shops, including ScienceofSpeed depend on experienced machine shops and head tuners to assist in the development and production of the engine packages.

Not sure what we ever did to put such a lemon in your mouth, hope it clears with time.

Cheers,
-- Chris

...No pun intended Chris, you guys are among the top aftermarket support/retailers for the NSX, very straight up and professional** SOS continues evolving & growing every year & I wouldn't be surprised if you guys/your company inherits the title of being the TOP retailer ($$$-wise) for these automobiles. I personally wouldn't hesitate ordering your products (and have done so in the past, and have referred others)

...however, though just an opinion, I personally feel (as many others I've spoken to who have experience with all the various NSX tuners...Gerry Johnson, Mark Basch, Cybernations, SOS, Factor X, and several more) that Factor X Motorsports core competancy IS "engine building" and has vast experince in this particular skill, moreso than ANY other current NSX "tuner." If you're going to drop a one lump sum of ~$10,000 in just your cars N/A motor-package/installed why not go straight to the top** ...they keep going into uncharted terrority with these cars which anyone would of thought was impossible a couple of years ago...which in-turn makes their products ("engine packages") superior to anyone else's. As far as the "ultimate bang" is concerned they're really the only game in town, let's face it...god bless them! LOL


PS: Amazing X you/SOS have created Chris, outright brillant in what you've made it to be.

 

[kpond]

...they keep going into uncharted terrority with these cars which anyone would of thought was impossible a couple of years ago...which in-turn makes their products ("engine packages") superior to anyone else's. As far as the "ultimate bang" is concerned they're really the only game in town, let's face it...god bless them!

Agreed that Factor X has done some amazing NSX motors and had some impressive results. Also, anyone investing R&D, sweat, and blood into improving and popularizing the NSX is helping all of us. Hat's off to Factor X. However, how many *amazing* Factor X cars are on the street being driven in the real world? Making big HP in small, carefully controlled, owner operated conditions is very, very different than making cars that can be driven hard and reliably day in and day out by customers.

I don't lurk here much anymore but I only recall one such car delivered to a customer - and that car went back very quickly with problems.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

I don't lurk here much anymore but I only recall one such car delivered to a customer - and that car went back very quickly with problems.

GENTLEMEN............... START YOUR ENGINES!!! IT'S GOING TO BE A BUMPY RIDE. :biggrin:

Armando