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bilstein shocks stock springs, or tein s tech springs stock shocks?

Well, I've decided to stick with the Bilstein shocks and not use the Tein Springs. I was quite happy with the Bilsteins with my 05, so I figured I'd stick with that winning formula :).

B@t
 
I've tried Bilstein w/ Tein and Bilstein w/OEM.
At first, I've tried Bilstein w/OEM on lower purch. Well, it gave a bouncy ride and I felt somewhat not stable. It didn't felt harsh at all. Look was OK but drop was bit subtle for my taste.
Then I installed Tein S-Tech. Yes, Front was tad higher and it really annoyed me. So I've sent it to factory and made extra grooves between higher groove an lower groove.

Now, it sits on the mid groove for front, higher groove for rear.
Since i'm running on 17/18, I think too much drop make wheels looks bit smaller.
I like how it looks on mine. However I think it is bit firm on local streets, It is purrfect on the freeway here in SoCAL. :cool:
 
Blue Batmobile said:
Well, I've decided to stick with the Bilstein shocks and not use the Tein Springs. I was quite happy with the Bilsteins with my 05, so I figured I'd stick with that winning formula :).

B@t
Click to expand...

B@t, with all the good stuffs you put on your car, why not go coilovers?:confused::smile:
 
Blue Batmobile said:
Well, I've decided to stick with the Bilstein shocks and not use the Tein Springs. I was quite happy with the Bilsteins with my 05, so I figured I'd stick with that winning formula :).

B@t
Click to expand...

Good decision.
 
Just throw some eibachs on the car. Cant go wrong.
 
/interesting thread....so, I professing my ignorance about the NSX suspension here,...and really had not planned on doing anything at all with it, but when I read the comment about OEM's feeling too harsh on small bumps, and too soft on big ones....I said "yes"...thats exactly how I would describe mine....the little pavement joints shake my teeth out, but a large dip or hump in the road (the kind that makes your stomach end up in your throat) seems like it bounces the car a bit and slightly out of control (its not really, just "feels" like that) ....so, if my goal was to :

Have a slightly lowered look with my OEM body, no ground effects kit,
Have a slightly more cushioned ride on those little bumps like pavement joints
and be firmer on the larger dips and humps in the road....what exactly do I need to be looking at

So far, it seems like there is a lot of the posts leaning towards
Bilsteins with OEM, or "Swifts"??? am I on the right track?...I really have no idea what parts I am really in search of...and if they are total replacements, or add on pieces to what I have on there right now.

I have a stock 2000 T, the "shocks/struts" or whatever they are called which are in good shape...meaning with a push down on the corner of the car, they don't bounce, just one sharp up-down, and thats it...

Anyone care to lend a line of education without flaming me for my lack of knowledge in suspension terminology? Thanks...
 
sylcurt said:
/interesting thread....so, I professing my ignorance about the NSX suspension here,...and really had not planned on doing anything at all with it, but when I read the comment about OEM's feeling too harsh on small bumps, and too soft on big ones....I said "yes"...thats exactly how I would describe mine....the little pavement joints shake my teeth out, but a large dip or hump in the road (the kind that makes your stomach end up in your throat) seems like it bounces the car a bit and slightly out of control (its not really, just "feels" like that) ....so, if my goal was to :

Have a slightly lowered look with my OEM body, no ground effects kit,
Have a slightly more cushioned ride on those little bumps like pavement joints
and be firmer on the larger dips and humps in the road....what exactly do I need to be looking at

So far, it seems like there is a lot of the posts leaning towards
Bilsteins with OEM, or "Swifts"??? am I on the right track?...I really have no idea what parts I am really in search of...and if they are total replacements, or add on pieces to what I have on there right now.

I have a stock 2000 T, the "shocks/struts" or whatever they are called which are in good shape...meaning with a push down on the corner of the car, they don't bounce, just one sharp up-down, and thats it...

Anyone care to lend a line of education without flaming me for my lack of knowledge in suspension terminology? Thanks...
Click to expand...

I think either Bils with OEM springs on lower perch or Bils with Swift springs on upper perch would be perfect for you. The Swifts firm up more than OEM on hard cornering (they are progressive), so I suppose the Bils/Swift option is the "sportier" one. I think you would be fine either way.
 
Choosing suspension is such a personal decision that is difficult to translate over text. What is firm for someone is too soft for another. Most of the people on here, including me, can't articulate what is 'too soft' well enough in that it can be compared to some standard metric that's uniform to all of us... is it the spring rate, the shock rate (rebound/compression), or the sway bar rate? Until you can talk in those terms then we're limited to asking if this will be for DD status, occassional track/canyon, or dedicated track and the proceeding recommendations will be a guess at best.

Until you have some real life, seat time based, basis of comparison then how are we really suppose to help? If someone ask me does my car feel stiffer than a stock setup, well duh, yes but how much stiffer? how much stiffer would you like to go? Is it stiffer in dampening or spring rate? But if someone ask does my car feel stiffer than say a Tein Monoflex setup with 8kg/10kg springs then I can probably answer that a lot easier.

My best advice for you guys, FWIW, is to push your cars. Figure out what you like/don't like. Learn how to articulate how you want the car to feel then start buying parts. Some people put on the whole package and not realize what one part did what. They also end up spending way too much money well...unless you just want the bling.

I drove 4 different NSXs and have tried 3 different setups on my car before I finally settled on Bilsteins + Tein S-tech + Type R front Sway Bar. I'm about 80% of where I want to be and how I want it to feel but I will be upgrading to KW V3s. Bilsteins with stock springs are nice but it still felt too "floaty" in the turns. I did like the compression/rebound characteristics, though still firmer than stock but in a good way. I then tried a set of progressive springs on the stock shocks - hated how the turn-in was so sloppy before they loaded up but was absolutely great and comfortable for city driving. I then drove a bunch of other NSX with various suspensions and ended up where I ended up. So far i'm happy with my setup but track day is in May and we'll see how much I like it then.

Sorry for my long winded 0.02 pesos. Good luck

Blue Bat.. still waiting for your quote or just say you can't get it.
 
Last edited:
We should all read Daves post again :biggrin:

dswartz said:
I have been through practically every combination of suspension known to man, so I though I would pass on my experience to help others.

Mine is a 98 Coupe. I’m told that the spring rates are a little higher and the shocks are a little harder on a coupe, but for the sake of this discussion I will assume that all 97+ (except Zanardi, Type S and Type R) are the same. For reference purposes Dali Racing has a good set of charts located here:

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/suspension/more_springs_matrix.cfm

The combinations I describe below are listed in the order that I installed them.

1) Stock Shocks/Stock Springs – (cost = $0). While the stock setup rides and handles good, the ride height is too high (SUV Look).

2) Stock Shocks/Eibach Springs – (cost = $300 + install). Referring to the Spring Comparison Table in the above link, these are progressive rate springs that start out softer than stock and end up harder. As a result they give an excellent ride. They seem to handle a little better than stock probably because of the lower center of gravity. However, in my opinion they are way too low. I was always scraping over driveways and road bumps.

3) Bilstein Shocks/Stock Springs on upper perch - (cost = $530 + install). Referring to the Compression/Rebound Table in the above link, these are progressive rate shocks that are much harder than stock. They did give a decent ride unless you hit high frequency bumps like sewer caps, expansion joints, and chewed up road surfaces. However, the ride height was too high (SUV Look). Handling was on par with stock, except it was a little less confidence inspiring then when the ride height was lower.

4) Bilstein Shocks/Stock Springs on Lower perch - (cost = $530 + install). To solve the height problem above, I had the springs reinstalled on the lower perch. This gave an extremely hard ride all the time. I believe that as the Bilsteins are compressed by lowering the ride height (lower perch) they become harder. The biggest problem, however, is that they became noisy, generating squeaks and metallic banging noises. While others have had this problem and some have appeared to have solved it (at least temporarily) I believe that this is an inherent problem in the design of these shocks. Since the perches are movable, they can move on the shock body, which is what I believe creates the noises. Handling was better than on the higher perch, but was unnerving when hitting a bump while cornering, which caused the car to “skip” to the side.

5) HKS Hipermax Coilovers – (cost = $2,100 + install). None of the above improved the handling significantly. However, the HKS are clearly superior on the track including skid pad, autocross, and road course. They reduce unsprung weight which allows them to follow every bump and keep the tire on the surface. They are also height and spring rate adjustable. These truly inspire confidence. However, they feel very choppy while street driving over bumpy roads. You can watch your passenger’s head bounce around over choppy roads. For my taste, these are great for the track, but not so good for street driving.

5) Bilstein Shocks/Tein Springs – (cost = $530 for Bilsteins + $200 for Springs + install) – This combination created what I feel is a perfect ride height (.7” lower in front and 1” lower in rear). It both lowered and leveled the ride height, but has enough ground clearance for most road surfaces. Referring to the Spring Comparison Table in the above link, these are linear rate springs that are 15% stiffer in front and 10% stiffer in rear. This slightly reduces the tendency for over steer. However, this combination suffered the same symptoms described above for the Bilsteins on the lower perch. It seems the Bilstein Shocks don’t know that they are compressed by using the lower perch or a shorter spring, so the results were as described above for the Bilstein Shocks/Stock Springs on Lower perch.

6) Stock Shocks/Tein Springs – (cost = $200 + install) - In my opinion, this is, without a doubt, the best combination for a street driven car that is only tracked infrequently. It handles like the Bilsteins without the “skipping” over bumps when in mid corner. Had I known this from the beginning I could have saved thousands of dollars. It is not only the best combination (in my opinion) for ride height, handling, and comfort, IT IS THE CHEAPEST! Having said that however, I would be tempted to try the KW Variant 3 Suspension described here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/KW_Suspension/Variant_3/

Referring to the Coilover Kits Comparison Table in the Dali Racing link above, these are about 22% softer in front and 30% softer in the rear than the HKS Coilovers. This may be enough to provide an acceptable ride on the street while allowing the better track performance provided by coilovers.

Below is a table that summarizes my results. Note, the cost does not include installation. (Sorry, but the table below doesn't import well)

Combination - Cost - Height - Ride - Handling
Stock Shocks/Stock Springs - 0 - Too High - Good - Good
Stock Shocks/Eibach Springs - $300 - Too Low - Excellent - Good
Bilstein Shocks/Stock Springs on upper perch - $550 - Too High - Good - Fair
Bilstein Shocks/Stock Springs on Lower perch - $550 - Good - Fair (Noisy) - Fair
HKS Hipermax Coilovers - $2,100 - Excellent (Adjustable) - Poor - Excellent
Bilstein Shocks/Tein Springs - $730 - Good - Fair (Noisy) - Fair
Stock Shocks/Tein Springs - $200 - Good - Good - Good

Well, that’s my story. I hope it helps some of you looking at suspension alternatives.

Dave.
Click to expand...
 
RYU said:
Choosing suspension is such a personal decision that is difficult to translate over text. What is firm for someone is too soft for another. Most of the people on here, including me, can't articulate what is 'too soft' well enough in that it can be compared to some standard metric that's uniform to all of us... is it the spring rate, the shock rate (rebound/compression), or the sway bar rate? Until you can talk in those terms then we're limited to asking if this will be for DD status, occassional track/canyon, or dedicated track and the proceeding recommendations will be a guess at best.

Until you have some real life, seat time based, basis of comparison then how are we really suppose to help? If someone ask me does my car feel stiffer than a stock setup, well duh, yes but how much stiffer? how much stiffer would you like to go? Is it stiffer in dampening or spring rate? But if someone ask does my car feel stiffer than say a Tein Monoflex setup with 8kg/10kg springs then I can probably answer that a lot easier.

My best advice for you guys, FWIW, is to push your cars. Figure out what you like/don't like. Learn how to articulate how you want the car to feel then start buying parts. Some people put on the whole package and not realize what one part did what. They also end up spending way too much money well...unless you just want the bling.

I drove 4 different NSXs and have tried 3 different setups on my car before I finally settled on Bilsteins + Tein S-tech + Type R front Sway Bar. I'm about 80% of where I want to be and how I want it to feel but I will be upgrading to KW V3s. Bilsteins with stock springs are nice but it still felt too "floaty" in the turns. I did like the compression/rebound characteristics, though still firmer than stock but in a good way. I then tried a set of progressive springs on the stock shocks - hated how the turn-in was so sloppy before they loaded up but was absolutely great and comfortable for city driving. I then drove a bunch of other NSX with various suspensions and ended up where I ended up. So far i'm happy with my setup but track day is in May and we'll see how much I like it then.

Sorry for my long winded 0.02 pesos. Good luck

Blue Bat.. still waiting for your quote or just say you can't get it.
Click to expand...

Will get back to you Monday ;).

B@t
 
This was very helpful to see the information summarized so nicely....

I certainly see how a measure of suspension and ride is almost totally subjective....so it is nice to see the comparisons to OEM as the benchmark...thats really all I was after, and I think I have what I would need to make a decision...for me , its nice to see that the upgrade I would select is also the least expensive....

Thanks Primers...
 
I installed bilsteins under tein springs on my '97 nearly four years ago and love them. This lowered my car by close to 1" and took away the large gap between the fender & tire.

It took me most of the day to remove the OEM suspension and put this in (even using crappy coil spring compressors on loan from Autozone).
 
Honcho said:
And this is as it should be. A few years back, Shad from Driving Ambition posted a very informative comment regarding something called Rake. As I understand it, rake is the difference in ride height bewteen the front and rear of the car. According to Shad, it should be about 0.5 inches in the NSX, meaning the front of the car should sit 0.5 inches lower than the rear. This apparently has important consequences for high speed stability. Therefore, cosmetic springs that have a stated goal of "evening the wheel gap front to rear" are not so great for your NSX at 100+ mph, since the front can end up higher than the rear! :eek: It might look nice, but I'd stay off the track. :)

Performance lowering springs like the Swifts or Comptech make sure to preserve the factory rake.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it change weight distribution as well?
 
DRIFTER said:
Wouldn't it change weight distribution as well?
Click to expand...

Possibly, since the compression distance of the front suspension is less than the rear. But, as I understand it, rake is primarily an aerodynamic concept.
 
Honcho, this "rake" is commonly done in rear drive cars - reason is acceleration "squat" from pressing on the loud pedal. You don't want the rear end to compress under that load to a level below that of the front wheels. The rake takes that concern out of it. So it's not due to aerodynamics. It levels out when under acceleration - but there is the obvious secondary aerodynamic result which would be a good thing.
 
I am lowered with H&R springs.. but it seems like my driver side is higher 7/8 inch. Should I just get 1 Bilstein shock and leave it on the lowest perch to get it even?

My front is even.
 

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