Taking the car to the track has revealed one of the NSX's shortcomings: The brakes. Give me some advice on current brake upgrades for OEM 16 and 17 in. wheels for mostly street and some track use.
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Brake upgrade
- Thread starter ChopsJazz
- Start date
After about five or six laps I start to experience severe brake shudder. The car still slows well, but the shudder does not inspire confidence.
[This message has been edited by ChopsJazz (edited 14 April 2000).]
[This message has been edited by ChopsJazz (edited 14 April 2000).]
Movit offer Brmbo brakes from Porsche biturbo (993) for the front. It will fit the 16" with spacer and slight grind of the caliper. I also saw in FAQ that it is possible to upgrade to 97 brakes (rotor and pads) with just the change of the bracket. Anybody can verify this?
Are the '97 brakes a marked improvement over the OEM '91 brakes? Does anyone have track experience with that set up? I read about the Movit 911 alternative in the FAQ also. Sounds pricey.
I have the front brake brackets for the 97/05 discs PM if your interested
You do realize that you are responding to a question posted 13 YEARS ago...........
WOW, biggest fail of the week here.. how the hell did this post come up then??
BTW i might have just set a record
BTW i might have just set a record
DanO was awesome!! Hope he's still around.
mammories??
When Larry worked on my nsx the last 4 times in the past 3 weeks he told me you were on the list. I will keep checking it for you when I drop in unannounced for work over the next couple of months.
Don't worry, Dave. He didn't forget. He kept mentioning that you were on his calendar and then referencing a particular date he was doing yours. I don't recall the exact date but I believe he mentioned it coincided with hell freezing over. :tongue:
Getting this thread back on topic, I just changed out my stock oem 100k mile rotors for nice slotted stoptec ones. I also use Project Mu pads.
Very nice combo for the street.
Very nice combo for the street.
WOW, biggest fail of the week here.. how the hell did this post come up then??
BTW i might have just set a record
Came up for me since this is possibly my next mod.
Anyone run Cryo rotors and EBC Yellow for street spirited or light track use?
I've mitigated brake shudder in my other cars with Cryo rotors. As soon as my pads wears out on the NSX I think i will go in this direction too. Just on the fence between that and BBK
In my experience, "cryo" type treatments are a gimmick. The main cause of shudder is brake pad deposits on the rotor, usually from using an inferior pad material for the temperatures experienced. The second cause of shudder is a warped rotor. The clamping force of even the stock brakes is good, considering the weight of the car. The 97+ changes were primarily made to address brake bias (Honda realized it should be moved to the rear), not inadequate brake capacity. I tracked my old NSX on the stock 91 brakes. Using good pads (XP8), good fluid (ATE) and new Centric generic rotors, I experienced no fade or shudder during four 30-minute sessions where ambient temps were 95F. The brakes felt strong the whole day.
Considering the power your NSX puts down, you're dumping a lot more thermal energy into the rotors. You've got two ways to go. First, you could make the heat sink bigger by going to a BBK, or a Racing Brake rotor size upgrade. The bigger piece of iron will absorb more thermal energy and thus delay the onset of fade. Or, you could add cooling to your 91 brakes. The ducting is cheap and can reduce rotor temps over 200F. Unlike big rotors, which still eventually will heat up, cooling is always working. I used EBC yellow on my wife's old RDX and they worked great, but not sure if they would stand up to track use. For a true street/track pad, I always recommend Project Mu HC800. I used those on my 700 hp tuned GT-R and they held up great at the track while being easy to use on the street. Carbotech AX6 is also a good choice- definitely easier on the rotors than the HC800, which is a harsh pad. I'm going to try AX6 on my Type-S Zero project.
Thanks for the info.
So what I had noticed on the cryo rotors is that the surface is smoother than the non-cryo ones if that makes any sense.
So what I had noticed on the cryo rotors is that the surface is smoother than the non-cryo ones if that makes any sense.
Has anyone heard from Chops?
If you are wiling to move to larger front and rear wheels (17/18) the StopTech BBK is probably one of the best bangs for your buck if you track your car. I have their kit and the stopping power is incredible on the track and I am using the pads that come with the BBK. I track my car at Portland Int'l Raceway (PIR), a 1.95 mile road course. I am amazed at how late I can brake with this setup. Probably three factors can be attributed to this: 1) the car is stock, factory HP, 2) my terminal velocity before braking is around 120mph on both front and back straights, 3) The car is relatively light (3010 lbs, full tank and my 200lb butt). OK - four, I am not the fastest car out there at any given time (but the car gets the most attention of any of the cars out there).
If I need more stopping power a simple pad upgrade (more track oriented) would suffice.
I've never had an issue with brake fade or excessive heat. The only thing I would do differently is choose the slotted (or solid) rotors over the drilled rotors. While I have not had issues yet with the drilled rotors, most all the serious track guys say the drilled rotors will eventually crack.
If you don't want to go to this extreme, then I'd suggest Frozen Rotors (solid or slotted) and StopTech Street/Performance pads. While I can't say whether a cryo rotor is a gimmick or not, there seems to be enough positive research out there to justify the higher expense. I have this setup on my 1990 BMW E30 M3 and it works great on the track as well as the street. i consider myself an Intermediate DE driver so those of you in the higher levels (i.e. Advanced) may need / require a better track pad (i.e. CarboTech XP8 / XP10). Stepping up a pad grade (or two) will result in higher noise levels and dust, decreased stopping power when cold, so you may want to reserve these kinds of pads for track-only days.
My .02 cents.
HTH
Thanks.
If I need more stopping power a simple pad upgrade (more track oriented) would suffice.
I've never had an issue with brake fade or excessive heat. The only thing I would do differently is choose the slotted (or solid) rotors over the drilled rotors. While I have not had issues yet with the drilled rotors, most all the serious track guys say the drilled rotors will eventually crack.
If you don't want to go to this extreme, then I'd suggest Frozen Rotors (solid or slotted) and StopTech Street/Performance pads. While I can't say whether a cryo rotor is a gimmick or not, there seems to be enough positive research out there to justify the higher expense. I have this setup on my 1990 BMW E30 M3 and it works great on the track as well as the street. i consider myself an Intermediate DE driver so those of you in the higher levels (i.e. Advanced) may need / require a better track pad (i.e. CarboTech XP8 / XP10). Stepping up a pad grade (or two) will result in higher noise levels and dust, decreased stopping power when cold, so you may want to reserve these kinds of pads for track-only days.
My .02 cents.
HTH
Thanks.
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I'm like you- raced as a kid, intermediate DE these days. I brake fairly late. I found the XP8 to be actually a little too much for the street tire compound on the track- I had to back off on my modulation. They grab really hard when hot- with R comps or slicks they would be perfect for the NSX. That's why I'm looking at the AX6, which is the next step down from the XP8. But, you can't go wrong with the HC800. I think for what Bats is after, those pads with good cooling, fluid, and rotors should be plenty. A lot of the GT-R guys also liked the Endless MX-72 for dual duty. Supposedly less noisy than the HC800.
You mean Ken Crowell? Yea, he has been pretty quiet on Prime. Kinda miss those good ol' days where I would face the music from him about "spirited driving" while he admits to being pulled over for it by the CHP...
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