cannot align front camber

[anvil]

Just back from my second afternoon watching the alignment guy try to align the front end. I took a copy of the manual for the second session, but the best that the camber adjustment could reach was a -1.2 degrees and the casters are now both the same around 6.5 degrees (the machine help screen indicated there was NO caster adjust, but the manual cleared that up). The alignment equipment was a Hunter interactive machine.

The alignment guy suggested take it to a body shop and see if they could pull the body out enough to make it align!!?!!

I suspect you can imagine how uncomfortable this all sounds to me.

Do you think he missed something?

anvil

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Anvil,

What suspension setup do you have? Maybe H&R's?? Eibachs?? If the car is lowered about 1.5" or more, this may be why.

And DON'T take it to have the body pulled!!!!!!!!! Thanks ridiculous.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[nsxbadboy]

IMHO,it sounds about right if the car is lowered.

Joe

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97 NSX-T
93 Supra TT BPU+

 

[anvil]

Stock so far as I know. I got the car about a month ago. The previous owner claimed to know little about it.

I did check the front ride height and it was on spec as near as I could tell (although my driveway may not be entirely even). This just came up in the last few days, so I haven't had a chance to do a thorough analysis.

Odd thing is that just this one wheel seems to have a problem and neither I or the alignment man could spot any sign of damage to the car. He speculated that a bad pothole could have bent the body at the suspension mount, but could not see anything. The drivers side wheel adjusted easily.

I had wondered if the instructions for the Hunter alignment machine could have led him badly astray. Certainly he had never worked on an NSX before.

I failed to emphasize that it was just the one front wheel that would not adjust to spec. Now I have one wheel in 1.2 degrees and one in .3 degrees.

anvil



[This message has been edited by anvil (edited 14 November 2001).]

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by anvil:
...
The alignment guy suggested take it to a body shop and see if they could pull the body out enough to make it align!!?!!

Idiot!!! Tell him it is not an old Ford truck. (They were aligned with a hydraulic jack to bend things to spec. Really.)

Time to bite the bullet and take it elsewhere. Perhaps he's just a chuckle head or perhaps the Hunter is screwed up. If another place gets the same result then look more closely for bent pieces or disintegrating bushings. It's impossible that the frame was bent by hitting a hole or curb unless the suspension was too, but perhaps it was wrecked and the suspension was already replaced. Any indication that some of the pieces on that side are newer than the others?

Did you run a Carfax on it?

 

[anvil]

I did not run a Carfax, but the insurance company checked for previous claim work. The car had been stolen and eventually recovered. No indication of collision damage. Just a low payoff ($25000) to the owner in 1997. Sold by the insurance company to the owner from who I purchased it. He claimed to have paid $35000 in 1997 and had told the same story about the theft.

Body shop checked it over and reported that it had been repainted (well!) on the driver's side, but no body panels appeared to have been removed (paint around bolts was unbroken and the paint on the bolts seemed the original). The driver's side window had been broken or pried out (during the theft, supposedly) enough to require adjustment and enough to break the rubber seal at one point.

All the undercoating material underneath the car appears untouched except for a 2" X 3" scrape near the front center that did not bend the underlying metal. In fact, I could have done that the first week I had the car when a vehicle ahead of me ran over a truck tire tread and I did not have time or manuevering room to avoid it. But it made little noise when I ran over it.

anvil

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by anvil:

I did not run a Carfax, but the insurance

So just for kicks run one now - post the VIN if you don't know anyone with an account - then get the car checked thoroughly by someone who knows what they are doing!



------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

 

[anvil]

JH4NA1156NT000687

Is this kind of like closing the barn door after the cows have escaped?

Naah, ... the car is basically sound from all accounts and after putting a few thousand miles on it (I had to travel a lot recently!). It did need the alignment though.

The right front suspension members could stand a more informed inspection though. I will have it checked when I am in Austin next week, if I take the NSX.

anvil



[This message has been edited by anvil (edited 15 November 2001).]

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by anvil:
JH4NA1156NT000687

08/21/1992 173 miles Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Dept.West Chester, PA Title #45410404 Title or registration issued First lien reported.

05/11/1994 18,251 Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Dept. Philadelphia, PA Title #45410404 Title or registration issued.

05/23/1994 Inspection Co. New York Vehicle inspected. Anti-theft device present at time of inspection.

07/23/1994 18,795 New York Motor Vehicle Dept. Syosset, NY Title issued. First lien reported.

05/09/1997 New York Motor Vehicle Dept. Uniondale, NY Salvage Title issued. Vehicle listed as recovered theft.

03/21/2000 54,410 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. Austin, TX Title #22732036592141629 Title or registration issued.

10/09/2001 72,120 Arkansas Motor Vehicle Dept. Russelville, AR Title #58020132306. Salvage Title/Certificate issued. First lien reported.

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

 

[anvil]

Thanks Andrew,

I am glad to see that the story I got holds up. The reason that there was a three year lapse between the salvage issuance and the obtaining of a Texas registration was that the owner ran a used car lot and drove the car on his dealer tags for a time.

It does not explain the suspension problem, but it is nice to know anyway.

anvil

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Your top control arms may be bent if your camber adjustment is at full positive setting and there is still that degree of neg. camber. They should be measured to spec. An upgrade in alignment guy may be in order.

-- Chris

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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info

 

[anvil]

You might be right about the alignment guy Chris, but I live in a small town so options are limited.

I will be going to Austin (Tx) this week so I might try to make it out to the Acura dealer if I can squeeze it in. There was nothing obvious when I was under the car during the alignment, but those "A arms" have kind of an irregular shape so I certainly could have missed some damage.

anvil

 

[SWEET-N-LOW]

Sounds like some of what I faced with my 92 when I bought it last year. I had a slight pull to one side with light braking. Acura dealer pointed out that there had been some front end repairs and it looked like excellent workmanship but would not align to exact factory settings and they did not want to get into anything other than factory settings. They referred me to Clark's House of Suspension here in Orange County. Seems this is the "go to" place for suspension work around here. They've been in business for 15-20 years. I guess they do set ups for someone who races NSXs. He confirmed one setting on one side would not align to factory specs and was probably due to the hit at some point in time. Said it would cost 2-3K in parts and possible bending of body to get to specs and they would be glad to do it but it would be a total waste of $$. Clark used non-factory settings on both sides for both ??caster and camber to balance the alignment. He claimed an experienced race driver probably couldn't tell difference from factory settings. After an hour plus using all his equipment and two drives he charged me $75 and I've been a happy camper for the last 12,000 mile year.

 

[anvil]

The Acura dealer also said that a body shop would be the place to go if it would not align. They said that bent suspension members would be difficult to recognize visually and expensive to replace, but the frame machine would at least determine if there was a problem with the body. Only after the body has measured true would you conclude the suspension members might be bent.

anvil

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by anvil:

The Acura dealer also said that a body shop would be the place to go if it would not align. They said that bent suspension members would be difficult to recognize visually and expensive to replace, but the frame machine would at least determine if there was a problem with the body. Only after the body has measured true would you conclude the suspension members might be bent.
anvil

Given the lack of accurate history on the car, that seems like sound reasoning and good advice. Good luck.

BTW, beware of frame shops with something to gain by telling you it needs work. If the news is bad, consider getting the details in writing including what is bent and by how much (you could say it's for the insurance company), and the take it to another place for the same thing.



[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 04 December 2001).]

 

[smoore]

upper and lower control arms are usually the first thing to bend especially if the car has been abused. like you said many times one dosen't even know due to there shape