I'm just here because this is the most mature civil nc1-NA1/2 discussion ever...........................:biggrin:
Could be that most people chiming in have had both. Hence the civility.....
Now a pricing thread ...
MC
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Cant decide... Older NSX vs. New Nsx Owner comparisons?
- Thread starter supra774
- Start date
Could be that most people chiming in have had both. Hence the civility.....
Now a pricing thread ...
MC
- Joined
- 3 July 2016
- Messages
- 249
I have a client for whom I sold his '92 GPW / Black NA1, he replaced the car with a '17 Silver / Red NC1. The best combination I've seen, stunning in person.
And the car he sold, for good measure:
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[MENTION=19102]supra774[/MENTION] - here's my summary of what you said.
* Initial cost is not much of an issue
* You're concerned about value (or rather resale)
* You've had 4 NSX and regret selling them
* You want a Manual Trans
* You owned a Lambo and sold it
* You're considering a NC1 because it's nearing the price of a 02+
My $0.02... So I think being concerned about resale is spawning all your regret. You sold 4 NSXs but you're looking to buy your 5th. Fact is.. resale value for the NA1/2 is slowly rising or at worse leveling off. NC1 is still depreciating, though one could speculate that the low production numbers will preserve prices.. then again, cost of maintenance rivals a McLaren so I think that's kind of a wash. So if you're really concerned about value are you going to gamble or go with a proven track record? That's your choice to make.
So now let's talk about a car you seem to want but have no experience of owning (NC1). Why don't you lease one or do a long term 1 week Turo rental on one (if they have them on Turo, I don't know). Or possibly buy one for a few months. Consider the cost (after you deduct resale value) the cost of quenching the unknown.
There's also another fact that many here have mentioned... They are totally different cars. You can see from the owners that they each like each specific model for different reasons. So you gotta ask yourself what do you need in your life right now. Making the smart financial decision isn't always what makes you happy.
For $80-100k I feel like there are other cars than either the NA2 or NC1 to spend it on
oh.. lastly... If money was an issue... i'd look for a high mile 91-94. Do some upgrades. Drive the piss out of it while the NC1 continues to drop in price. It bottom on dropping NC1 resale doesn't seem to have an end yet. With 3yr lease returns coming up this Q3/Q4... it's going to be VERY interesting to see what Honda does to prevent the bottom from falling out completely.
Correct, the Initial cost is not as much concerned.... I like the fact I have never lost a dime on any NSX I have owned, and I still want to make the right decision without losing anything down the road. I do regret selling 2 of them for sure, the first one I totaled and the second was just not in very nice condition. I feel like with the 99 and the 02, I thought the grass would be greener on the other side.... I was kind of bored with them, boy, that was a huge mistake.
You bring up a good point about the cost to maintain the 17+..... which is one reason why I got rid of the lambo. This is also something I have to consider.
I will look to possibly rent one for a few days if possible to see how it drives.... I Imagine this is not a good idea lol, I am sure I will love it.
Thanks again
Just to clarify, when you say 2nd generation, you mean 02-05, or 17+?
Thanks again, daniel
Valencia Red Pearl! (my unbiased opinion)
White 02-05 with white leather is my absolute fav.....
We refer to the 1991-2005 as the Gen1, and the 2017+ as the Gen2.
I feel that I need to add some more of my impressions about both generations.
The Gen1 was much more of a drivers car. It was more analog and driver input was what made the experience of driving it exhilarating. It changed the world of exotics at the time with the advances it brought to the marketplace. The all aluminum body, four channel ABS, titanium connecting rods, and the reliability of a Honda in a hand built car designed and built in Japan.
The Gen2 is also a drivers car, but the car makes up for most shortcomings of the driver. I never got the chance to really push my Gen2 like I did with my Gen1. I tracked my Gen1 and learned how to drive it safely at the limit. The Gen2, I guess, is like most every other car with the technology to make anyone drive fast. I like the looks of the Gen2 better than most every other supercar on the market. It's not over styled like some of the Italian marques. I found the seating and driving position of the Gen2 to be very similar to the Gen1, even how the creases of the fenders outlined the view out the windshield. The Gen2 was blisteringly fast, but the area where I live isn't really conducive to sport driving. That is where I liked the idea of having the ability to "try" and drive in electric mode only. On my 10mi commute, I could probably drive six miles in electric mode, but it was difficult only due to having to accelerate to avoid someone from changing lanes into me.
The biggest mistake I made with the Gen2 was thinking it would be just as easy to live with as a DD as the Gen1. It wasn't and the reliability issues I had just made the experience even worse. That is where I guess my opinion of the car differs from 99% of the other owners. But hey, that's why there are other brands out there and I'm very happy with what I'm currently driving.
At the risk of being labeled an "NC1 hater" :biggrin: you specified much of what has kept me away from a new one. I've owned various EVs since 2013. There's nothing that quite performs the duties of daily driving like an EV. The NC1 is kind of a half ass EV in this criteria so as a pure daily or even an 80% daily, i'd rather drive a dedicated EV. Let's be honest... when can you ring out an NC1 on normal streets? Not very often so it has to stand for it's daily driving merits as a slow traffic putter (at least here in LA). So that brings me to the NC1 being a sportscar/supercar argument and comparing it to it's peers in that regard. Well... that argument is stale around these parts with the lackluster sales speaking volumes. It's great that the compromised magic stew concoction of features Honda ended up is the sweet spot for many owners here but it's not for me at the $125-200k price point. If it had a decent amount of EV range.. maybe.. but then with today's EV technology it would have a heavy ass battery or be another BMW i8... I get that too. I'd be curious if my mind would change if I didn't hate the interior so much.
At lower prices in the used market.. the NC1 becomes more interesting for someone like me who's gets a kick out of a good value/deal. $80-90k is basically entry level 12C arena (Yes, the exist). Also, having learned NC1 maintenance costs.. i'd much rather spend the same on maintenance and repairs on a McLaren than the Honda. Easy/cheap maintenance costs is Honda's bread and butter and they couldn't even give the NC1 that. I mean... Honda just can't win with me. Sorry to say. #flamesuiton
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I’ve had my 92 for almost 20 years and it is a special car to me.
But it is a nearly 30 year old car now. A lot has changed, and while a first gen car is great for driving, I would say you should try a gen 2 car.
But it is a nearly 30 year old car now. A lot has changed, and while a first gen car is great for driving, I would say you should try a gen 2 car.
^^^ didn't want to disappoint you [MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION] so I brought some heat back LOL
I'll post the unpopular opinion of...
For the money in today's market... there are better cars to drive than either the NA1/2 or NC1 IMO.
I'm not sure where you are getting NC1 = McLaren maintenance costs from. They are definitely not the same. One is a Honda, the other is...British.
I shopped McLaren before deciding on the NC1. McLaren oil change = $1k or more annually. NC1 = $300 - $400, and can be done at home if you have the right tools / time. It's a Honda, it's using Honda hybrid tech but in a more exciting way. My na1 / na2 only needed oil change, routine maintenance and it was always ready to go. I feel the same with the NC1. The battery in the NC1 is pretty small so it gives just the right boost for performance but not so large it will have significant cost to replace later.
There are current and former McLaren owners in our NC1 group, and they all warn about the notorious reliability issues of the McLaren. I have no such concerns with the NC1. It's not even a contest.
I don't think any of us are offended "Honda can't win with you"...personally I feel it's your loss, but honestly you gotta do what you gotta do. I am beyond thrilled to have mine. Just drove mine today and it put an ear to ear grin on my face.
Also, with regards to i8...it's nice, but not even close to the level of NC1 in terms of performance. Here is my NC1 next to a friend's i8 roadster. You can't tell easily in the photo, but the NC1 is far lower and far wider than the i8. It's not even in the same category, imho.
The NC1 is not about EV range. It's about butt kicking rocket ship when you step on it, and acceleration never fades because of the twin turbo v6, unlike traditional EVs, plus sexy as hell looks (in person, really), amazing ergonomics, amazing dynamics, amazing overall feel. It never gets old. I watched an old Top Gear review on the Porsche 918, and the McLaren P1...the things they say about those cars (except for the exhaust) pretty much applies to this car, at a fraction of the cost. Watching those reviews made me even more appreciative of the NC1.
Also, I'm curious, what other cars would you consider over the NC1? I sure can't think of a single car I'd rather get at $80k - $100k, unless it's a second NC1 (yes I'm serious if I find the right deal, I would buy a second NC1 in a heartbeat - it would be like buying a Zanardi at $60k because the value of this car will go up over time, I guarantee it), or a Zanardi or some rare na2.
At this point I couldn't care less what other people think of the NC1. I can only give my own honest opinions of it as a NSX enthusiast who loves all cars but love the NSX the most, for Honda engineering, reliability, and daily driveability.
If you decide the NC1 is not for you, that's just fine. I felt the same way when the NC1 was introduced, as I was a huge HSC fan. However I've gotten wiser over time with my time with the NC1, and feel it is the most under-rated super car of the current generation. I truly believe in the future people will get more exposure / experience with the NC1, and look back and think about how the masses missed the boat with this car. This car is every bit an amazing / special car like the original. Unfortunately the original set the bar so high it's hard to meet expectations after years of hype upon immediate visual cues and pricing. However, this car one of those things that will be truly recognized and revered over time.
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So as of now, I happen to go to Vegas quite often.... looks like I can rent one for a day or two and will be able to get a good feel for the car. I obviously love how my previous nsx’s felt so this will be a good comparison. (Thanks for the suggestion RYU)
I also feel that the one I really want will never become avalible..... 02-05 white/white and I’ve been looking for one of those forever.... and I’ve never seen one that I can remember, so if I decide on the older GEN one, I think the smart money for fun is somewhere around 96 or 97 with a little less than 60,000 miles on it..... possibly somewhere in the $60k price range.
I also feel that the one I really want will never become avalible..... 02-05 white/white and I’ve been looking for one of those forever.... and I’ve never seen one that I can remember, so if I decide on the older GEN one, I think the smart money for fun is somewhere around 96 or 97 with a little less than 60,000 miles on it..... possibly somewhere in the $60k price range.
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I think the smart money is either that, or a NC1 at a low price now for the next few years. These cars are incredible and the value will go up. People just have no idea what they are getting for the money.
I will be keeping an eye out for a steal on a second NC1 over the next few years and snag another one at the right price, because it will go up tremendously in value.
I also told the Acura dealer, if NC1 type R comes to market, I'm first on the deposit list. Sadly the latest rumors seem to indicate that will not be happening.
I love Casino White. It is stunning every day and twice on Sunday.
However, I also love blue. So I may snag a second NC1 in blue one of those days. I seem to love the white and blue combo.
PS - you might find yourself with heavy competition to get a NC1 at a good deal. Some current NC1 owners like myself may be tempted to compete with you to get a steal.
Not sure if nsxsupra will answer, but here is a post from a NC1 owner who has an Aventador S, 458, and NC1
This owner added it a while ago, is frequently on the owner's group, and constantly raves about the NC1. I think we all get that kind of "yup, you know" type of vibe from each other knowing how special and spectacular this car really is.
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[MENTION=27407]Z06nsxcts[/MENTION] - not going to do the work for you now but it's an easy search on the used car sites. Come up with a few and let's discuss. One comes to mind for the NA1/2 - Lotus. Porsche, MBZ, Audi, and a few others for the NC1. Again, it's great to have choices. You folks who bought the NC1 obviously wrote off the other choices for various reasons. We non-owners haven't.
[MENTION=9246]NsXMas[/MENTION] - fair points. lots to unpack there. I owe you a longer explanation of where i'm coming from but in short... I can still buy an extended warranty on the Mac. It's less reliable (that wasn't my point though since this won't be a DD as I explained above). Honda won't offer an extended warranty and from trusted sources like Bob most basic maintenance like a valve adjustment requires a $20k engine-out service. Pls tell me i'm wrong because i'd love to hear it. I can get a used Mac CPO with extended warranty for anywhere between $5k-2k per year depending on the deal. I can absorb that into the ownership cost but removes the unknowns that can come up on a british car. I'm borderline on the NC1 being a good deal (used) but just not quite there yet because Honda does not make it easy for reasons already stated.
bummer, I only got a rise out of 2
i'm losing my touch.
Extended warranties don't cover routine maintenance. Valve adjustment is recommended at 120,000km, or 75k miles. At this rate, it will be 20 years before I require a valve adjustment given how I drive my NC1. If I had more time to drive it, sure I'd have to pay more out of pocket, but such is the price of entry for an amazing car like this. You drive a MacLaren / Lambo / Ferrari at those mileage rates and costs will be far higher.
Also, those are factory prices. As other shops like Science of Speed start doing this better and cheaper over time, that price will come down. SOS can already do NC1 oil change for cheaper than the dealer price (along with awesome upgrades like downpipes, tune, exhaust, iLift kits, and more), and I wouldn't own a na1/na2 or NC1 without SOS.
Hybrid tech is pretty old tech now, and pretty well proven. The only thing to go wrong is the battery failing. I read this about the NC1 warranty:
That's huge peace of mind IMO.
It's a Honda, I don't expect things to go wrong. If it does, Honda will take care of it, like they usually do.
Remember the snap ring issue of the na1? My na1 had it, the previous owner addressed it by putting in a 6 speed na2 transmission...a $6k cost at the time (probably $15k in today's money), and probably got some reimbursement from Honda for the trouble. There will always be potential for large ticket items but they are the exception, rather than the rule, with Honda products.
I can't think of a single car comparable to the NC1 I'd rather own at its price range or even $50k under, unless it's a NSX-R or Zanardi on a steal of a price, only because of the profit potential. No other car gives the Honda reliability and advanced tech, and I've played tons of "what if..." games in my head about NC1 vs this car, this other car, etc etc.
I love these games, because as a player of the game, I can switch to something else if it makes sense...I'd love to hear what's in your head about this. Bottom line - I can't think of a single one that I'd pick over the NC1, at this time or in the near short term future.
We are extremely fortunate to be players in the super car game. I count myself beyond blessed for picking the very best current super car in this amazing class of super cars. It's a golden age for super car owners, and it's a fantasy life for me right now, with what I have in my garage. As they say, I'm "living the dream"...I hope you feel the same way with what you have.
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As a car lover and engineering geek, I drooled over this amazing recent video about the NC1 and its powerplant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtCcnrO2Rzs
Honda is known for building the very best engines in the entire world. This crown jewel and heartbeat of the NC1, the Cosworth engine is simply incredible. If you consider yourself a car enthusiast in any shape or form, you owe it to yourself to enjoy this 10 minute video about the NC1 and its one of a kind engine.
It gives me goose bumps to think of the amazing tech within my NC1 that gives me the unbelievable thrills in each and every drive. Well done Honda, well done.
Also bonus video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94WnVyudiS0
I loved what Matt Farah said in the 2017 NC1 video "I LOVE LOVE LOVE this car!!!".
Here's what he says at the end of the drive towards 15:50 "This car is fun, really fun. I hope you get that from the video. ....At $160k, you cannot buy a car, brand new, that looks better than this, that goes faster than this, that features this kind of technology, for less money. You just can't. This is still 80-90% of what you get from a $1m dollar Porsche 918 for $160k. It's 1/5 of the price, and 80-90% of the actual car." That's what we NC1 owners feel about this car. We get hypercar performance for super car price. It's a steal.
(PS Doug Demuro loves this car, Chris Harris loves this car, it's hard to find a real car enthusiast who has driven the NC1 and have any negative things to say about it. These people drive hyper cars and super cars regularly, and come away impressed with the NC1.)
Reading the video comments, it feels like...people are enlightened.. :biggrin::biggrin: I hate the positive press this car is getting!! It's going to make my 2nd NC1 more expensive to buy!! Stop with all the positive press you people!!! :tongue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtCcnrO2Rzs
Honda is known for building the very best engines in the entire world. This crown jewel and heartbeat of the NC1, the Cosworth engine is simply incredible. If you consider yourself a car enthusiast in any shape or form, you owe it to yourself to enjoy this 10 minute video about the NC1 and its one of a kind engine.
It gives me goose bumps to think of the amazing tech within my NC1 that gives me the unbelievable thrills in each and every drive. Well done Honda, well done.
Also bonus video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94WnVyudiS0
I loved what Matt Farah said in the 2017 NC1 video "I LOVE LOVE LOVE this car!!!".
Here's what he says at the end of the drive towards 15:50 "This car is fun, really fun. I hope you get that from the video. ....At $160k, you cannot buy a car, brand new, that looks better than this, that goes faster than this, that features this kind of technology, for less money. You just can't. This is still 80-90% of what you get from a $1m dollar Porsche 918 for $160k. It's 1/5 of the price, and 80-90% of the actual car." That's what we NC1 owners feel about this car. We get hypercar performance for super car price. It's a steal.
(PS Doug Demuro loves this car, Chris Harris loves this car, it's hard to find a real car enthusiast who has driven the NC1 and have any negative things to say about it. These people drive hyper cars and super cars regularly, and come away impressed with the NC1.)
Reading the video comments, it feels like...people are enlightened.. :biggrin::biggrin: I hate the positive press this car is getting!! It's going to make my 2nd NC1 more expensive to buy!! Stop with all the positive press you people!!! :tongue:
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- Joined
- 3 July 2016
- Messages
- 249
Cool video!
It's funny that the development leader for the NC1, Ted Klaus, says that the original NSX engine was "based on" an existing engine. That is not really true - it was a completely bespoke design. The original NSX team started with an existing V6, but eventually moved to a clean-sheet design, just like the new NSX's story.
