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Ceramic brake dilemma

TURBO2GO

TURBO2GO

Illustrious Member
Joined
8 March 2006
Messages
16,594
Location
Boston
Ok so finally I got all the parts for my ceramic brakes. Went to install and they won't fit under a 17" wheel.

4ecac053a13db7ae9461ac0b20d15250_zpsfb3ca221.jpg


The rotors are larger:

a1a94a945ebaa3f73dc8ba353a61038f_zpse4ddc5fa.jpg


Now what. I have to sell my advans and go 18". Problem is... Then what for tires. Last I checked 18/19 it was a bunch of mediocre tires and no competition tires. Someone please tell me that's changed. And then there is the whole weight dilemma. I am saving 7 pounds per corner over the stoptechs. But am I putting it all back on by the wheel/tire? Someone help me out. I can't believe this. I even have a set of NT01's, a set of AD08's, and a set of drift tires. ALL OF WHICH are useless now. What's the best plan of action here? Obviously I'm on the track and I can't use some medium performance tire.
 
Yes the rotors are larger.

- - - Updated - - -

Stoptech on the left

49aa365050d0e349d53df40b2bdacf16_zpscdb767c6.jpg


- - - Updated - - -

It's also larger than the standard WP steel kit.
 
I know but I haven't paid attention for a while and I was praying someone has come out with a new tire. I did a huge search and found nothing. It's going to be a 245/35 and that's a full inch bigger than oem. Will that fit with downforce fenders? 245 front what do you then put on the rear?
 
I feel your pain, Dave. I ordered the 360mm kit and it has caused all my wheel plans to go straight to hell. I found alternatives, but it was crappy planning on my part none the less. I do have a solution for you though!

Sell them to me!! Props for spending the money on them. They look awesome, but make wheel selection a pain. In your case, tire selection even worse. I believe these are 360mm also. I hope the size you have found works.
 
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Oh wow, that really sucks.

Can you mill down the caliper a few mm w/o sacrificing the structural integrity of the caliper?
 
Nope, I've already asked. The brakes seem top notch, but they (WP Pro) have fairly odd sizing when going with the 360mm, or ceramic. I've tried everything because I wanted to run a step-lip for my car, but no-go.

Ponyboy said:
Oh wow, that really sucks.

Can you mill down the caliper a few mm w/o sacrificing the structural integrity of the caliper?
Click to expand...
 
I think the ceramic is 362... I will double check
 
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01a4man said:
Nope, I've already asked.
Click to expand...

Who did you ask? If the vendor, their response is a given. I've seen Brembos and Alcons with material shaved off (and even part of the bolts) to fit wheels. The owners claim no performance difference but, IMHO, that's a given too if just a little less so.

Really tough call. Don't envy you guys. :(

EDIT: Michelin and Pirelli produce Porsche Cup spec tires. Could be a decent option (235 fronts and 295ish rear).
 
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I don't think 245/35/18 is going to fit with df fenders or Widebody cars, the overall diameter is so large I think you hit the headlight buckets when you start to turn, even without fender liners. You can probably find someone with a wheel/tire to test fit that size I'm sure. Plus all the good tires will run wide so they really take up a lot of room.
 
I asked WP Pro themselves. They advised me that they VERY SERIOUSLY (sorry, this is the way it was explained to me) do not recommend doing this whatsoever. Not sure if there could/would be any repercussions (i.e. warranty issues perhaps), but that is how it was explained to me.

Ponyboy said:
Who did you ask? If the vendor, their response is a given. I've seen Brembos and Alcons with material shaved off (and even part of the bolts) to fit wheels. The owners claim no performance difference but, IMHO, that's a given too if just a little less so.

Really tough call. Don't envy you guys. :(

EDIT: Michelin and Pirelli produce Porsche Cup spec tires. Could be a decent option (235 fronts and 295ish rear).
Click to expand...
 
There's no shaving that caliper. It's not just one spot. It's the entire top of the caliper.
 
I'm sure they wouldn't honor a warranty (I wouldn't either!). Did they have any suggestions to resolve the dilemma?
 
TURBO2GO said:
There's no shaving that caliper. It's not just one spot. It's the entire top of the caliper.
Click to expand...

Plus IMO it's too expensive a piece to modify anyway AND it's brand new. I think you are doing the right thing if selling the bbk is not on your radar, get 18/19 and focus on tire selection. There has to be something out there that works because all the fast cars these days run those sizes and larger. Exhaust that research and step back from it to see if it's worth it to give up your wheels and tires.

OTOH the wheel/tire weight is much further out and is more critical to rotating inertia than the weight you lost from the ceramic rotors-- and you already love the wheels and tires you have, so I would get a different bbk and sell/return this one. The distance from the axis of rotation is squared in the equation for MOI so mass is much less important.

Ugh this really is a dilemma but I think you should sell this bbk and find another one. There will be a solution either way but we know you want the optimum one.
 
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Another data point.

Someone active here recently had their 92' fitted with the NSX specific, top of the line trick 4-pads/caliper PFC BBK w/ 17/18 CE28N set up. Both f/r rotors are 14" = 355mm which is just huge and overkill & heavier than it needs to be IMO. The frt caliper has to be "hand trimmed" to fit the wheel. Once the pretty red paint was gone, the caliper material "does not look like billet".

With your ceramic, you would think the dia. can be smaller since they are more "efficient" than steel rotor unless they are ported over from a much heavier car since its its difficult to make ceramic rotors in various sizes w/o the economy of scale. Unless the next size down is way too small or not available. I would think you should save more than 7lbs/ wheel but if you go 18/19, all the weight saving will be gone and made worse.

FWIW,
PFC rear caliper - 7 lbs. no pads.
PFC rear bracket - 1.2 lbs.
PFC front caliper (larger pistons) - 7 lbs. no pads.
PFC front bracket - 1.6 lbs.
rear 14" = 355mm rotor w/ hat - 14.6 lbs.
front 14" = 355mm rotor w/hat - 14.8 lbs.

4 pads - 2 lbs. (New)

92 OEM
Front rotor - 13 lbs
Rear rotor - 11.5 lbs.
Front caliper w/ mounting bolts = 12.4 lbs.
Rear caliper w/ mounting bolts = 11.2 lbs.

WP Pro should help out but my guess is they are stuck with the rotor size so you must go big. Trimming ceramic is like trimming gold.
 
I know which car. I'll be down there at the secret shop where this secret car is at on the 31st of this month to have some secret work done on my car :) :) :)

Hope to see you there! BTW.. those PFC calipers are MASSIVE
liftnot said:
Another data point.

Someone active here recently had their 92' fitted with the NSX specific, top of the line trick 4-pads/caliper PFC BBK w/ 17/18 CE28N set up. Both f/r rotors are 14" = 355mm which is just huge and overkill & heavier than it needs to be IMO. The frt caliper has to be "hand trimmed" to fit the wheel. Once the pretty red paint was gone, the caliper material "does not look like billet".

With your ceramic, you would think the dia. can be smaller since they are more "efficient" than steel rotor unless they are ported over from a much heavier car since its its difficult to make ceramic rotors in various sizes w/o the economy of scale. Unless the next size down is way too small or not available. I would think you should save more than 7lbs/ wheel but if you go 18/19, all the weight saving will be gone and made worse.

FWIW,
PFC rear caliper - 7 lbs. no pads.
PFC rear bracket - 1.2 lbs.
PFC front caliper (larger pistons) - 7 lbs. no pads.
PFC front bracket - 1.6 lbs.
rear 14" = 355mm rotor w/ hat - 14.6 lbs.
front 14" = 355mm rotor w/hat - 14.8 lbs.

4 pads - 2 lbs. (New)

92 OEM
Front rotor - 13 lbs
Rear rotor - 11.5 lbs.
Front caliper w/ mounting bolts = 12.4 lbs.
Rear caliper w/ mounting bolts = 11.2 lbs.

WP Pro should help out but my guess is they are stuck with the rotor size so you must go big. Trimming ceramic is like trimming gold.
Click to expand...

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The crummy part for Dave is that WPro told them they should fit. If it was me personally I think of it this way.

Pros:
* The Carbon setup is lighter. Yay!
* The brake rotors will outlive you. You'll never have to change them ever unless you wreck them.

Cons:
* You're limiting yourself to such a SMALL range of wheel/tire package and even then. You're forced to run 18's in the front for as long as you own those brakes. You're left with compromising on tire selection. If a set of 17's DO fit (I don't think any 17 will fit up there, keep in mind the brake system will expand 1-2mm at least as it heats up) then which wheels are those? It certainly won't be the ones you love which I are the Advan RSs.
* WPro is a new (small) company. What if they go belly up? You're assed out on parts.
* For 80% of your driving... let's be honest here. Will you really notice the carbon brakes?

I say get rid of the brakes. Put WPro on blast for giving you false information that you relied on and spent maybe $10-15k on. Cut your losses and drive on brother!

P.S. I drove a Mclaren 12C with Carbon brakes this wknd. Amazing fucking brakes. I won't lie to you. I never got to heat them up significantly but as with many things... you pay 3-4x more for maybe certainly not 3-4x more the performance.

JIMHO

- - - Updated - - -

Another solution.

Go W I D E B O D Y :)

1advan5.jpg
 
Dave I agree with RYU, that's a lot of coin to spend relying on that critical information. The whole point of this exercise was to lose as much weight as possible meaning you get your 17/18 AND CC BBK. But, you might consider that there is a small possibility that you can find a 17" front wheel to make this all still work. I see you poked your head in the BC Racing thread and noticed those RS copies LOL. Maybe see if BC has or will custom make you a 17" wheel to fit this BBK. They can get all the exact info from WP and see if that wheel fits. Otherwise perhaps they will be good enough to run their finite element analysis on the same wheel design but custom made with an inner diameter large enough to fit. It's a long shot but it would be the ideal solution probably.
 
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With enough money anythings possible...

WP pro uses I think the same caliper for all 6 pot kits except the exe or whatever ones with different internals. That means the bracket is slightly different on the ceramic carbon kits. Depending on the structure it of this it looks like you could put it on machine like this and take care of things.


And then get brackets machined to fit, or if they did the same diameter of the regular nsx 6 pot caliper the brackets should be interchangeable.
 
Brandon from GT Theory is checking on that very thing for me. This is my last hope. It seems 18/19 is not a solution that can fit with any sort of good tire.
 
doesn't Billy (stuntman) have a whole thread devoted to 18 inch front wheels because he feels that all performance tires in 17 inch are going away and there are many more choices in 18 inch????:confused:
 
TURBO2GO said:
Brandon from GT Theory is checking on that very thing for me. This is my last hope. It seems 18/19 is not a solution that can fit with any sort of good tire.
Click to expand...

You spent too much money to settle for a compromise, I hope it works out! I hope WP is extending some sort of financial rebate to you for putting you in this position if they won't take back their brakes. Please keep us posted on how they handle this.
 

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