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Ceramic brake dilemma
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
^^^ wow. Those look nice Dave
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Dave I think going wight he downforce wider front fenders and doing what is needed regarding the liner, headlight bucket so we can run 235/40/18's upfront is the best bet at this point. It is a pain, will cost us, but I think in the end if we can make it work it will be worth it. I am going to give it a shot, at this point I won't be driving my car this year so might as well get it all correct and take the time now, come out hard next year B-)
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225 on a 9" is outside my personal performance comfort range but there are a lot of people who do it with a very stretched look that might not be great on track or match the rear stretch. Why not stick with a 18x8 or 18x8.5 RSii?
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Oh come on man everyone on this forum has RSII's. Some jerk did a group buy and now everyone has one.
K on a setious note, no real reason. It's definitely a wheel at the top of my list. I was just thinking of going fully forged and getting rid of the centering rings (which I am still not sure do anything as they are not that tight fitting on the rear of my car). I can most likely get a good deal at forgeline too. But certainly the RSII is tough to beat in terms of strength, weight, and the kind of looks I like. I may just go with almost exactly the same wheels I have now just 1" bigger. So if you are uncomfortable with a 225 on a 9" then I won't do it.
Billy how does the stretch affect the handling anyway? Do you lose grip at the center of the patch? It probably is even more roll resistant on the sidewall isn't it?
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I have read that a rolled shoulder profile allows for more gradual break away characteristics Dave, but Billy would know. Also the main thing to me about stretched tires not being performance oriented is that your wheel becomes exposed to damage especially if driven hard. Think about driving over a rumble strip with metal instead of rubber- ouch. A lot of stretch is going to be bad for performance anyway I would think, something which is already under tension is less flexible than it at rest. I don't see any race cars with stretched tires, only stance guys whose cars drive like shit. I am experimenting with all this on my other car and I've seen a glimpse of both sides. Performance wins, and there is little overlap between the two except both like camber.
I would carefully select the tire size considering all factors. Also I've noticed that most performance tires run wide but don't have bead protectors like street tires. I remember the AD08 being very wide with a square shoulder and no bead protector for example. May not be of concern but I always like to protect the wheel and each tire sits differently.
I think you were on the right track getting the smaller width wheels for the tire size you wanted to run. Only reason to go wider is if you want to run wider tires and they won't fit on the smaller width wheels. Getting wide wheels and running excessively stretched tires adds weight, risk, and problems.
I would carefully select the tire size considering all factors. Also I've noticed that most performance tires run wide but don't have bead protectors like street tires. I remember the AD08 being very wide with a square shoulder and no bead protector for example. May not be of concern but I always like to protect the wheel and each tire sits differently.
I think you were on the right track getting the smaller width wheels for the tire size you wanted to run. Only reason to go wider is if you want to run wider tires and they won't fit on the smaller width wheels. Getting wide wheels and running excessively stretched tires adds weight, risk, and problems.
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I'd love a good ceramic rotor. Very light and great for reducing unsprung mass.
For simplicity's sake, having too wide or narrow of a tire on a given wheel will generate less grip than a proper size. Too wide will roll over and be wallowy and vague on center and initial tire loading. Stretched tires to a point feel better on center and as the tire is loaded since the sidewalls are preloaded by being stretched.
Tires vary greatly but having some stretch will generally be more stable and grip better. Most modern supercars have Low profile and slightly stretched tires these days. If you stay in the range of a 265-295 on a 10" wheel you'll probably be fine.
For simplicity's sake, having too wide or narrow of a tire on a given wheel will generate less grip than a proper size. Too wide will roll over and be wallowy and vague on center and initial tire loading. Stretched tires to a point feel better on center and as the tire is loaded since the sidewalls are preloaded by being stretched.
Tires vary greatly but having some stretch will generally be more stable and grip better. Most modern supercars have Low profile and slightly stretched tires these days. If you stay in the range of a 265-295 on a 10" wheel you'll probably be fine.
I pulled off the front wheels, liners (which were already off) put the car on jacks and did some more investigating. So I really think a 225/40/18 is actually possible, although it is as big a tire as I would possible be comfortable trying to fit in there. Nero is right the headlight buckets come close, but it is not that close. There is still an inch of space between them and my 235/40/17 NT01. What comes closer is the body seams at the rear of the wheel well, there is hardly any space there at all. But.... It looks like two seams just welded/bonded together and nothing that can't be shaved in one particular spot to allow for more clearance. Here are some photos from both sides with the wheels turned so as to show you when there is the least clearance:
Other side:
Even though the first photo makes it look like the body is closer to the tire than the seam, it is not. The body will clear.
In the seccond photo it looks like the seam is touching, but there is actually a pinky finger of clearance. My index finger gets a little squished. You can absolutely forget fender liners with this size and the wide fenders are probably a necessity. You also can't go baller low, you're going to have to stay a little conservative although nothing like OEM high. I am thinking of ordering just one wheel with a 225 18 and doing some more test fitment but I would like to decide on a wheel.
Billy, the forgeline wheel I posted the photo of is extremely light. And I like its look. But as I said it is 18x9 minimum. I am looking at the specs on a toyo R888 here for example at the tire rack. Note the approved rim width (and this is on all 225/40/18's):
It does say 7.5 to 9. I just want to make sure I understood you correctly. You are saying the 9, even though still on the approved range is not good? You didn't think when I said 9" I was talking about the rear did you?
If anyone has some super light weight wheel suggestions do let me know. I am looking at everything. Right now am definitely considering the same Advan RSII in 18 and the forgeline. I am going to search through volk, etc.
Hapa, I know I don't "need" ceramics. But they are 7 pounds lighter per corner over the stoptechs. And I will never buy another rotor. Even the pads are supposed to last a very long time. Also, I just cannot return them so I prefer to use them now.
Other side:
Even though the first photo makes it look like the body is closer to the tire than the seam, it is not. The body will clear.
In the seccond photo it looks like the seam is touching, but there is actually a pinky finger of clearance. My index finger gets a little squished. You can absolutely forget fender liners with this size and the wide fenders are probably a necessity. You also can't go baller low, you're going to have to stay a little conservative although nothing like OEM high. I am thinking of ordering just one wheel with a 225 18 and doing some more test fitment but I would like to decide on a wheel.
Billy, the forgeline wheel I posted the photo of is extremely light. And I like its look. But as I said it is 18x9 minimum. I am looking at the specs on a toyo R888 here for example at the tire rack. Note the approved rim width (and this is on all 225/40/18's):
It does say 7.5 to 9. I just want to make sure I understood you correctly. You are saying the 9, even though still on the approved range is not good? You didn't think when I said 9" I was talking about the rear did you?
If anyone has some super light weight wheel suggestions do let me know. I am looking at everything. Right now am definitely considering the same Advan RSII in 18 and the forgeline. I am going to search through volk, etc.
Hapa, I know I don't "need" ceramics. But they are 7 pounds lighter per corner over the stoptechs. And I will never buy another rotor. Even the pads are supposed to last a very long time. Also, I just cannot return them so I prefer to use them now.
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I don't know exact offsets you need but I'd probably guess you're looking for 18/18 since weight is a concern?
The volk ce28n are classic and one of my favorites. In your offsets and sizes they also may be easier to find then the normal 17x8 offset 38 which is pretty rare now since I think is discontinued. But if you're going for 18/18's you may want to check out Wedssport tc105n. A lot of tuners it seems run them because of their price and weight. Mine weight 14.xx front and 17.xx rear which for 2k shipped wasn't bad at all.
Going by pictures it almost looks like the fxmd car ran tc105n's at one point too.
The volk ce28n are classic and one of my favorites. In your offsets and sizes they also may be easier to find then the normal 17x8 offset 38 which is pretty rare now since I think is discontinued. But if you're going for 18/18's you may want to check out Wedssport tc105n. A lot of tuners it seems run them because of their price and weight. Mine weight 14.xx front and 17.xx rear which for 2k shipped wasn't bad at all.
Going by pictures it almost looks like the fxmd car ran tc105n's at one point too.
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For fender liners you can use 1/8" closed cell foam and 3M High Strength 90 adhesive to bond the foam to the inside of your fender. This will allow more room for the tire and protect your fenders from spider cracks. This solution is also lighter then your fender liners and does not hold water like open cell. Just a thought as I am running this setup because I wanted to make PSS work on my car.
You can put a 225 on a 9, but thats outside my personal performance range. I also have less confidence in that width up front from my calculations than an 8.5 or 8.
FX runs a 275 on a 10" front but at a greatly reduced steering lock.
FX runs a 275 on a 10" front but at a greatly reduced steering lock.
Billy, what are the wheels the fxmd car uses in these pictures?
http://www.turbosmartusa.com/news/turbosmart-champion-fxmd-nsx
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From what I can tell.... They look like CCW C14.... One if the few wheels that can fit 355mm - 380mm bbk.
275 on a 9 is also outside my personal range. The 275/35-18" rear probably has too small of an OD to work properly with TCS or ABS.
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*RS-ii has a lot more caliper-spoke clearance than CE28, which is important for big calipers like PFC and Turbo's.
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*RS-ii has a lot more caliper-spoke clearance than CE28, which is important for big calipers like PFC and Turbo's.
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Got any more pics/links to this?? I have always wanted to use the PSS as well.
Someone explain to me again how the ABS works? I didn't think slight changes in wheel size affected it. Billy I'm talking about going from a 35 series rear to a 40 series rear. It is 26mm (over 1 inch) larger in diameter. Which one of us is not doing the math right?
I'll do the math in a bit. It might work but I don't like the idea of a 275 on a 9".
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Just to add to the good data already here...
From personal experience the advan RS is weaker than the volk CEs. I'm not sure about the RSIIs but it's still a cast wheel. Something to consider...
Though the advan and SSRs are some of the best cast wheels around.
From personal experience the advan RS is weaker than the volk CEs. I'm not sure about the RSIIs but it's still a cast wheel. Something to consider...
Though the advan and SSRs are some of the best cast wheels around.
No need to defend either wheel Dave. Both have pros/cons and I own both and love both. My RS has already been previously repaired from a cracked barrel. CEs have been solid so far.
