Corky sells all rights to Bell TT kit and more

[Cartech Preston]

This is correct. Mike and I purchased the bulk of Corky's business from him, including the NSX TT system, back in January of 2002. We were in discussions with Corky for about 18 months before the deal was finalized.

We do have a lot planned for the system in the near future to shore up some areas which we feel could use improvement. We are also very interested to hear what you all would like to see changed in the system.

This thread has been a good one and certainly one we will seriously consider. We can also guarentee that the service and delivery of these systems will be dramatically better than they have been in the past. We have already been able to bring delivery times down dramatically for the individuals who have bought the systems this year.

Currently in the works for the system are:
1.) Optional Garrett/Turbonetics/Innovative based system
2.) Completely redesigned fuel system
3.) Redesigned engine management
4.) Validation of the system on the 3.2
5.) Optional stainless turbo headers

As has been mentioned, Corky's cost for the turbos and intercoolers alone was greater than $3000. I think there are definitely some ways to add stages to the system to allow greater price flexibility and we are definitely looking at it. I am generally on the forums of our customers and between Mustangs and BMW's it has kept me pretty busy. I have occasionally browsed NSX Prime and NSXSC but it is certainly time for a more public presence here, and I appreciate the opportunity.

As always we love talking to our current and potential customers. Feel free to send me messages here or give us a call at 830.438.2890. We will be moving to a new location soon and will announce our new contact info when it happens. We will also post it on our website (www.cartech.net).

Originally posted by sjs:
Last year I initiated discussions with Corky about purchasing the rights to NSX TT kit because I felt it still had unrealized potential and yet the market was improving as used cars became more accessible. He agreed and was ready to discuss a deal but before we even really got started I bailed because it just didn’t seem to add up for me financially.

Well, he found other buyers and sold not only the NSX kit but also most of his other products and the Cartech name. (Corky will concentrate on the Mazda kits and also retained ownership of his patented variable FPR.) Hopefully that gives the new owners a sufficient product line to make a proper business out of it, whereas I was looking at the NSX kit as more of a hobby.

The gentlemen who bought the business are Preston Marshal and Michael Montgomery. I’m not aware of them being on the NSX forums, perhaps someone else will be, but I’m guessing that they were more interested in the other BEGI systems. I hope to speak with them at some length about the NSX system but at this time I don’t know what their plans for it are. I suspect they will need some time to get things sorted out and evaluated before making any formal decisions. I hope they did their homework out here to see how tough the competition will be!

[This message has been edited by Cartech Preston (edited 03 August 2002).]

 

[NetViper]

I think it would be great to have yet another option for more boost. One thing I would like to add about cartech site is the 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds and 1/4 mile of 14.4 is terribly slow. My friend recently looked at the site just laughed at how slow the times were. I think it is time to retest. Also, the torque figure is wrong. It should be 210, not 225.

[This message has been edited by NetViper (edited 03 August 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by NetViper:
I think it would be great to have yet another option for more boost. One thing I would like to add about cartech site is the 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds and 1/4 mile of 14.4 is terribly slow. My friend recently looked at the site just laughed at how slow the times were. I think it is time to retest. Also, the torque figure is wrong. It should be 210, not 225.

I'm not clear on what numbers you say those were. Obviously not for the TT. Perhaps they said those were stock? Either way, they have nothing to do with what the kit delivers, so what's your point? No offense, I just don't see what you were getting at.

The Bell kit was/is quite capable of delivering exactly what it promised, 100 RWHP, with minimal tuning. By turning up the boost and improving the fuel system it will equal the peak HP of any CT yet marketed and deliver far more low-end torque and HP for better overall acceleration. For me the bottom line is in the bottom end (of the torque curve), and the TT kit has it. The BBSC will probably soon approach those performance levels with higher boost and a cooler, and probably still be somewhat cheaper. That’s why I haven’t hesitated to state that it is probably the best choice for most people. But it hasn't been fast or easy to achieve, just ask Mark B. Corky still gets my respect for what he attempted, I just wish he had gone a bit further a bit sooner. But, he had many other systems with greater revenue potential so the NSX kit was neglected.

 

[apeltier]

Well, I had written off the Corky TT setup after reading the horror story in the Contents section under turbos. It was starting to look like I was going to have to save for the BBSC (No I can't afford a Ferrari so $6500 + install pretty much kicks my butt). Maybe I'll wait and see what happens with the Corky/Bell TT kit now that it seems to have some life kicked into it. I can't afford $10K for a turbo and I can't really imagine how the hp/$ ratio makes any sense compared to supercharging at that point. I have to admit that the torque numbers from the Corky TT kit are impressive, especially with the low boost. The packaging is so much cleaner than the other options as well. I'd like to keep any TT kit under the cover, like the BBSC. Too much attention otherwise. It'll be bad enough having another 100hp. I don't need everyone knowing it has another 100 hp every time I park it somewhere.
I guess for me, I'd jump all over the BBSC if it were cheaper. I understand Mark and Mark do a great job and deserve every penny, but I just can't get there. I would think that a lot of NSX owners looking to upgrade are not really that wealthy, but are just people like me that had to have an NSX. If it's a stretch to afford it in the first place, $6500 superchargers should be out of the question, but the extra power is way too tempting.

As for parts, they're damn expensive. I agree, even the parts that aren't special still cost extra. Honda did a great job making the car affordable and reliable (making it even more affordable) but if you need something done to it, it's going to cost you just like any other sports car.

I was an idiot a few months ago and looped the car on bald tires and clipped the front and rear bumper. $1000 each for me to replace 2 pieces of plastic. $2K for plastic! Of course I've been unlucky finding any upgraded bumpers that are attractive. Japanese Touring car seems to be the only look in right now. So now I'm waiting for either an attractive bumper option to crop up or to become wealthy to the point that I don't care about $2K for plastic! I guess that's when I'll pay the $6500 + install for the BBSC too. At least I'll love that. Horsepower is always better than plastic!!

Digression. Sorry.

Alan

------------------
Alan Peltier
Operations Manager
HRE Performance Wheels
[email protected]

'94 black/black NSX
HID - Autolamps
Wheels - HRE 448Rs - 18x8, 19x10
Tires - Pirelli PZero Rossos
Springs - Eibach ProKits
Shocks - Bilstein
http://geocities.com/nsxbyhre/Main.html

Check out our website at http://www.hrewheels.com

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Cartech Preston:
This is correct. Mike and I purchased the bulk of Corky's business from him, including the NSX TT system, back in January of 2002. We were in discussions with Corky for about 18 months before the deal was finalized.]

Well, that is interesting. You were already working a deal when I started. Perhaps he thought you'd agree to give up that part if it wasn't high on your list. I certainly wasn’t looking to buy most of his operation as you did. (No that I wouldn’t enjoy it!!) Congratulations, and welcome.

I have a bunch of questions, observations and suggestions for you. I left a message with one of your staff last week but I know it's a busy time. However, perhaps you would clear up one particularly critical issue for current system owners. What's the deal with Aerocharger?




[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 03 August 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by apeltier:
... so $6500 + install pretty much kicks my butt). Maybe I'll wait and see what happens with the Corky/Bell TT kit now that it seems to have some life kicked into it. I can't afford $10K for a turbo and I can't really imagine how the hp/$ ratio makes any sense compared to supercharging at that point.

Sorry to say you aren't likely to see the TT kit come down much below the BBSC even if they swap out the Aerodynes for something else. But make no mistake, the Aerodynes are what make the kit. As long as you intend to keep max boost down, they deliver low end power like nothing else. I'm sure it will still be quite good with a pair of conventional turbos, but then you start wondering if it doesn't make more sense to just go with a single. It sounds like the new Cartech will consider all of the above, but don't hold your breath for a $4k kit from them, these things take time and a small market like ours seldom gets priority.

I would think that a lot of NSX owners looking to upgrade are not really that wealthy, but are just people like me that had to have an NSX.

Precisely correct, and just the opposite of the assumptions made when Corky developed his system. He stated quite clearly at the time that he could have build a conventional sing turbo system and even skipped the coolers considering the low boost levels, but for a car like the NSX people would expect and be willing to pay for something more exotic. Like Honda with the car itself, he found it difficult to reach his target market. Then of course there were a few customer disasters. These happen with all forced induction systems, but seems worse on an NSX. As noted in another thread, I think I may have figured out why some of them happened. Now the bigger market has shifted to people like you, so the BBSC was born and will be joined by single turbo systems.


Sorry to say you aren't likely to see the TT kit come down much below the BBSC even if they swap out the Aerodynes for something else. But make no mistake, the Aerodynes are what make the kit. As long as you intend to keep max boost down, they deliver low end power like nothing else. I'm sure it will still be quite good with a pair of conventional turbos, but then you start wondering if it doesn't make more sense to just go with a single. It sounds like the new Cartech will consider all of the above, but don't hold your breath for a $4k kit from them, these things take time and a small market like ours seldom gets priority.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by sjs:
Precisely correct, and just the opposite of the assumptions made when Corky developed his system. He stated quite clearly at the time that he could have build a conventional sing turbo system and even skipped the coolers considering the low boost levels, but for a car like the NSX people would expect and be willing to pay for something more exotic. Like Honda with the car itself, he found it difficult to reach his target market.

There's one dynamic that has changed, and that is the ability to reach the NSX market through the Internet. I'm not sure when Corky first developed his system, but until about 5-6 years ago, it was virtually impossible to market NSX modifications effectively because there was no way to target NSX owners. There was the now-deceased NSXtra, a newsletter with about 250 subscribers, and that was about it. The NSX e-mail list was started at the end of 1994 and grew steadily in popularity over the next few years. Nowadays, we have several different avenues for aftermarket vendors to reach NSX owners, including NSXprime and its 2380 members, nsxsc and its 1988 members, the NSX Club of America and its NSX Driver newsletter that is sent to its 1100 members, and the e-mail lists and their ~500 subscribers. The importance of these ways to reach NSX owners to the aftermarket industry as a way of publicizing its offerings cannot be overstated.

 

[sjs]

Ken is absolutely correct of course, and that is a big reason that the BBSC will probably catch the CTSC in total sales before Mark catches his breath. Despite some predictable grief, he played it very well and demonstrated the value of the web in marketing specialty products.

You can get a hint from Preston's post that he knows this as well and has already started using other forums to promote his products. I'll bet their sales far exceed Corky's on the same products in no time.

 

[Cartech Preston]

Originally posted by sjs:
Well, that is interesting. You were already working a deal when I started. Perhaps he thought you'd agree to give up that part if it wasn't high on your list. I certainly wasn’t looking to buy most of his operation as you did. (No that I wouldn’t enjoy it!!) Congratulations, and welcome.

Yes, that's true, we were. I am not sure what Corky had in mind but he was aware of our desire to take the NSX system further. Knowing Corky, he probably wasn't going to worry too much about it unless it progressed to a more serious stage. That's not to say you weren't being serious with him but maybe the other way around. If he had done it, it would have casued other issues. But as they say, "No Harm. No Foul."

I have a bunch of questions, observations and suggestions for you. I left a message with one of your staff last week but I know it's a busy time. However, perhaps you would clear up one particularly critical issue for current system owners. What's the deal with Aerocharger?

We would love to talk to you about any of your questions, observations and suggestions. This system is for you guys and we want it to reflect that. Aerodyne is an issue I am not really at liberty to talk about. Gerhard is the best source for information.

I will say this. If there comes a time when Aerodyne or Aerochargers are no longer around, we will develop a plan to take care of existing BEGI customers who have turbo failures. I don't know exactly what that means yet but one idea would be a set of "migration" parts available at cost to convert to a conventional turbocharger. We are also not going to stop making the system if we can no longer get Aerochargers.

Hopefully, that won't happen. If it does, there is always the possibility of another company picking up where they left off. I am sorry I can't be of more help on the Aerodyne situation but we are committed to keeping you guys running, regardless.

 

[sjs]

Thanks Preston, I get the picture. Now I'm doubly sorry I missed Gerhard's return call. I guess I'll keep trying, if only out of curiosity.

 

[true]

Originally posted by sjs:
Thanks Preston, I get the picture.

Sjs....I think you need to aquire aerodyne...save variable vien turbos!


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jack of all trades, master of some.

 

[apeltier]

Why is it that the Aerodynes are so critical to the Bell TT? Aren't there other turbos out there that are just as good? If they're so good, why are they struggling? I imagine they're pretty small turbos if they're for a twin system. I would think that their size would be the key. Wouldn't the fact that it is a twin system be more important. 2 small turbos vs. 1 big turbo? They spool up faster so you get more low end grunt. Isn't that why? I don't know too much about turbos so bear with my ignorance.

In the end, I really think there is a market for a twin system. The advantages of low boost, high torque and 100 hp bump are all pretty ideal to me. I also bet that with more enthusiasts buying used NSXs there is still probably a market for it. The BBSC seems to be demonstrating that there is a market for forced induction. As good as the BBSC is, I bet if there were a reliable TT system for a comparable price, it would sell. This may be stupid, and I understand how great superchargers are, and how good the BBSC is, but something about telling someone your NSX is a twin turbo just sounds more aggressive. Am I being a little kid or what.

In the end, if there isn't another alternative, the BBSC seems to be a great choice. I'm sure I'd friggin' love it. I'm not buying today, so I have the luxury of waiting to see what develops. Porsche 911 owners must be lucky. There are so many of them they can probably pick and choose from a multitude of systems to go with.

Anyway, my NSX is now my daily driver. Gotta go change the oil.

Alan

------------------
Alan Peltier
Operations Manager
HRE Performance Wheels
[email protected]

'94 black/black NSX
HID - Autolamps
Wheels - HRE 448Rs - 18x8, 19x10
Tires - Pirelli PZero Rossos
Springs - Eibach ProKits
Shocks - Bilstein
http://geocities.com/nsxbyhre/Main.html

Check out our website at http://www.hrewheels.com

[This message has been edited by apeltier (edited 04 August 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Alan,

The beauty of the Aerodyne is their variable vein design. This allows the turbo to act like a much smaller one at low engine RPM (low exhaust volume and velocity) but then adjust to act like a larger turbo as engine load increases (producing more exhaust gasses). As far as I know, this is rare instance where the much over-used word “unique” can be accurately applied. I’ve not heard of another manufacturer of similar technology. For one thing, it is basically too difficult and expensive.

So the big benefit is not so much about twins as about the special turbo design. Keep in mind that when you have two, they are each fed by only ½ of the cylinders, so that alone does not guarantee faster response. The Aerodynes are primarily used on motorcycles and they never produced one large enough for anything over modest boost on even a 2.0 engine. I’ve heard that the design didn’t scale up very well anyway. They also seem to have problems on some automotive 4 cylinder engines, apparently caused by the particular exhaust pulses of a typical 4 banger.

As for why their in trouble after all these years, could be countless things that have nothing to do with the quality of their product. Perhaps motorcycles are just so fast and cheap stock that the demand for very good but very expensive turbos has diminished. I wish they had managed to attract one or more auto manufacturers to use their technology. Perhaps volume would have brought production costs down enough to make it viable.
<IMG SRC="http://www.aerocharger.com/vatn3.gif" height=572 width=604">

[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 04 August 2002).]

 

[apeltier]

Thanks for the info. I knew it had to be something special. They sound pretty innovative. Too bad they're having trouble. I can't imagine needing to put a turbo on the latest superbikes that are out right now. A lack of power doesn't seem to be an issue with bikes these days, that's for sure.

Now my NSX, that's a different story!

Alan