I congrats Honda on their acheivements if they do beat the GTR, but still nothing special as far as looks...so yes I am Hating on this car, and yes looks do matter. I don't care if they get the Oscar Myer Wiener mobile(and put the A logo on it) to go faster around the Ring, I wouldn't buy it...same for this, why because its doesn't look exotic to me. It doesn't stand out on the street. I bet that if you parked this next to the latest NSX, most people that don't know their cars, will pay more attention to the older NSX than the ASCC.
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
Don't Hate!!!
- Thread starter BD
- Start date
I congrats Honda on their acheivements if they do beat the GTR, but still nothing special as far as looks...so yes I am Hating on this car, and yes looks do matter. I don't care if they get the Oscar Myer Wiener mobile(and put the A logo on it) to go faster around the Ring, I wouldn't buy it...same for this, why because its doesn't look exotic to me. It doesn't stand out on the street. I bet that if you parked this next to the latest NSX, most people that don't know their cars, will pay more attention to the older NSX than the ASCC.
Better in what way? I don't think it will beat it on the ring. I don't think it will be close in a straight line. It will have better build quality and materials, but it will also cost $150K.
I think the design is nice, but it is not $150K nice. I still say it looks $75-100K at best.
Figure an M6 has a 500HP V10 and it is less than $100K in coupe form.
Is this a trick question?
That is the lamest argument ever. $75 to $100k?
E46 couple has 40 plus more than the NSX at half the price. C5Z06 had more HP and was half the price of NSX. EVO9/10/Sti were 1/3 the price of NSX with more HP on tap. Are you telling me that after inflation market adjustment, this car should cost less than the original NSX? You gotta be kidding me.
Honda workmanship with a more reliable, better designed and maintenance free engine. Better interior material with more ergonomic siting position and out side viewing angle/range. Suspension with better safety and handling characteristics. And Honda does not need Government bail on:wink:
Last edited:
Not really lame.
Let's compare M6 to new NSX. Both have the engine in the front. Both have a v10. Both will have 500+HP. BMW build quality is as good as Honda or better and you get 4 years of free maintence. The M6 is a heavy pig, no known weight on the next NSX, but I bet it is 3500lbs. Both have paddle shifters -- though I would think the next NSX will be a much better system than the SMG. My guess is their straigt line performance will be damn close.
The new NSX will most likely stomp the M6 on the ring, but how many of us drive on the ring.
Is that new NSX worth $50,000 more? We'll see.
Last edited:
If that's the case, why don't you compare the M6 to SLR vision? Don't kid your self about BMW reliablilty. Even with free maintenance, your car will be sitting at the dealer instead of being driven on the road.
The Ring is not a big issue for BMW M6 buyers, but will be for Porsche, Ferrari, and yes, ASC? buyers because when you spend that kind of money, bragging rights comes with it. The key question is, the GTR V spec is rumor in Japan to have a $150k price tag. The LF/A or LF600 will have the price tag of over $200k. If this has the price tag of $125k and it out runs the SLR vision or 599 on the ring (which means it will also out run the Enzo, Zonda, F430 Scuderia, Gallardo Superleggera, etc), it doesn't need to pretend to be any thing else. All Honda need is to make that statement.
Right there your argument lost all credibility. If you truly believe that BMW build quality is better than HONDA's you must be smoking something serious. That would also explain your choice of a Corvette. After owning a Corvette, a BMW's quality would indeed look astronomically better.:biggrin:
The BMW M6 has a ten cylinder engine. That is all that fat pig shares in common with the lithe and athletic HONDA.
If you say so. I have owned a BMW and never had a problem with it. Wife owned a Z3 and 328 never had a problem with either The interior of the M6 is nicer than anything Honda or Acura has ever made IMO. We have a lexus now and it is easily better than the TL.
Last edited:
It does not matter what we say.
Used Car Reliability Ratings - Most Comprehensive
Performance Study Ever
When you're buying a used car, reliability, quality and dependability are a critically important factor to evaluate. After all, you want to avoid the expense, hassle and lost time of a car sitting in a repair shop all too often.
The problem is that real hard and objective data is hard to come by. This isn't information the car manufacturers readily share in a comprehensive way. Perhaps they're a little "sensitive" about it.
Well, in a long study on the reliability and repair records of 3 - 9 year-old automobiles by Warranty Direct, released in February (2007), we're given some real objective comparisons ... and over such a large number of vehicles that it's being touted as the largest study of its kind.
You see, this company is a huge underwriter of used car warranties. They cover over 450,000 vehicles in the United States and the United Kingdom which include 33 different manufacturers.
All they had to do was tabulate their claim records. And what can be more authentic than real people, putting mileage on real cars and encountering real problems ... and having them reported?
Here's The Car Rating Results:
The results show the number of failures reported for every 100 vehicles (3 -9 years-old) covered by Warranty Direct’s policies.
And just so you understand what the numbers mean: Mazda, with a score of 8.04%, would mean that nearly 92 percent of the Mazda cars covered experienced no mechanical failure of any kind ... pretty darn good.
1. Mazda - 8.04%
2. Honda - 8.90%
3. Toyota - 15.78%
4. Mitsubishi - 17.04%
5. Kia - 17.39%
6. Subaru - 18.46%
7. Nissan - 18.86%
8. Lexus - 20.05%
9. Mini - 21.90%
10. Citroen - 25.98%
11. Daewoo - 26.30%
12. Hyundai - 26.36%
13. Peugeot - 26.59%
14. Ford - 26.76%
15. Suzuki - 27.20%
16. Porsche - 27.48%
17. Fiat - 28.49%
18. BMW - 28.64%
19. Vauxhall - 28.77%
20. Mercedes-Benz - 29.90%
21. Rover - 30.12%
22. Volvo - 31.28%
23. Volkswagen - 31.44%
24. Jaguar - 32.05%
25. Skoda - 32.12%
26. Chrysler - 34.90%
27. Audi - 36.74%
28. Seat - 36.87%
29. Renault - 36.87%
30. Alfa Romeo - 39.13%
31. Saab - 41.59%
32. Land Rover - 44.21%
33. Jeep - 46.36%
BMW is ranked below 50%!!!
Vance, that is fine. You proved that BMW is less reliable than Honda.
OK. I get it.
My comparison between an M6 and this new NSX is still a fair one to me.
By the way, you forgot to point out how bad Chevy did. That POS ZR1 that lapped the ring what.. nearly 40 seconds faster than the NSX-R... Doesn't matter though because the interior isnt as nice.
I will stick with my opinion in the first place. That NSX looks nice, but for a $75-$100 car. Not $150k. How many $150K NSX's do you really think they are going to sell? How many people here will buy one? Not many according to the posts in the forums. They are more likely to buy a gallardo and stick with a mid-engined car than buy this one. I know I would rather have a gallardo or R8 vs this car.
Oh and I think the Lexus LFA was cancelled because they decided it would not sell. Don't quote me on that one though.
I can't believe how defensive you guys are on a car that doesn't even exist yet. geez
Isn't this thread called DON'T HATE? Maybe you should take your own advice.
OK. I get it.
My comparison between an M6 and this new NSX is still a fair one to me.
By the way, you forgot to point out how bad Chevy did. That POS ZR1 that lapped the ring what.. nearly 40 seconds faster than the NSX-R... Doesn't matter though because the interior isnt as nice.
I will stick with my opinion in the first place. That NSX looks nice, but for a $75-$100 car. Not $150k. How many $150K NSX's do you really think they are going to sell? How many people here will buy one? Not many according to the posts in the forums. They are more likely to buy a gallardo and stick with a mid-engined car than buy this one. I know I would rather have a gallardo or R8 vs this car.
Oh and I think the Lexus LFA was cancelled because they decided it would not sell. Don't quote me on that one though.
I can't believe how defensive you guys are on a car that doesn't even exist yet. geez
Isn't this thread called DON'T HATE? Maybe you should take your own advice.
Last edited:
It's a rendering meant to whet your appetite.
I don't believe the age/financial demographic of the current NSX Prime will be the target of their next NSX.
I also don't think it will be about bang for the buck.
Some cars are not meant for some folks because they just can't afford them or justify the extravagance.
If you can't appreciate the difference between a 75k car and a 150k car then you are wasting your money getting the 150k car regardless if you can afford it or not.
There is a cognac for those who can afford and appreciate it's inherent qualities and there is brandy for the folks who don't get it.
The beer is in the NASCAR tent.:biggrin:
I don't believe the age/financial demographic of the current NSX Prime will be the target of their next NSX.
I also don't think it will be about bang for the buck.
Some cars are not meant for some folks because they just can't afford them or justify the extravagance.
If you can't appreciate the difference between a 75k car and a 150k car then you are wasting your money getting the 150k car regardless if you can afford it or not.
There is a cognac for those who can afford and appreciate it's inherent qualities and there is brandy for the folks who don't get it.
The beer is in the NASCAR tent.:biggrin:
Vance, that is fine. You proved that BMW is less reliable than Honda.
OK. I get it.
My comparison between an M6 and this new NSX is still a fair one to me.
By the way, you forgot to point out how bad Chevy did. That POS ZR1 that lapped the ring what.. nearly 40 seconds faster than the NSX-R... Doesn't matter though because the interior isnt as nice.
I will stick with my opinion in the first place. That NSX looks nice, but for a $75-$100 car. Not $150k. How many $150K NSX's do you really think they are going to sell? How many people here will buy one? Not many according to the posts in the forums. They are more likely to buy a gallardo and stick with a mid-engined car than buy this one. I know I would rather have a gallardo or R8 vs this car.
Oh and I think the Lexus LFA was cancelled because they decided it would not sell. Don't quote me on that one though.
I can't believe how defensive you guys are on a car that doesn't even exist yet. geez
Isn't this thread called DON'T HATE? Maybe you should take your own advice.
Are you crying? I have never said you cannot post your opinion. We were discussing the statements you made when comparing apple to orange.
Take it easy. When the new car comes out, I'll race ya. See if your Vette is still faster?
I can't believe how defensive you guys are on a car that doesn't even exist yet. geez
Isn't this thread called DON'T HATE? Maybe you should take your own advice.
NetViper, stating published facts about the reliability of one product against another is hardly being defensive.
One of my best friends has an M6 convertible and has had numerous issues with it. Its a good thing he lives 3 blocks away from the BMW dealership. BMW and reliability shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence......it's like saying "nissan" and "great interiors" in the same breath.
BTW.....humor me and tell me which lexus is better than the TL?? You had better be talking about the LS cuz anything south of that is way overrated.
I like it.
I have to see it in person to decide if I like it or not. It will be a while I'm sure. It already has been a looong time.
This is what took so long? This took 10+ years?
Any word on if it will apper on the auto show circuit this spring?
This is what took so long? This took 10+ years?
Any word on if it will apper on the auto show circuit this spring?
Last edited:
I agree with you on Lexus interior quality. Lexus exterior panel fit is also better than Honda. I have worked for a lot of names in the car business though and I can tell you BMW, Lexus and Chevy aren't even close to Honda in reliablity or technology. I always thought about buying a M model in the past but I know a couple of BMW techs that told me point blank .......don't buy one.
I don't understand why anyone would pay over 100K for a Chevy.
It is not a bargain when you factor in all the reliability issues. When the roofs blow off because they are not built correctly. (TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE !!!!!!!) Why would you buy some peice of crap like that ?? My freind Chuck had a oil leak with less than 6000 miles on his C6 !!!! (not a isolated case either) This is why the car is JUNK !!! If I am spending over 50K on a car I am not putting up with this. What good is a warranty if you can't enjoy your car ? You think a crap company like Chevy is going to give you another Vette to drive while your car is being fixed?? I don't know about you but I don't have the time, patience or tolerance to deal with car issues. Why do they offer a 100K warranty ?? Let me tell you why: Because GM's rep is so bad that is what they need to do in order to help boost sales. On the ZR1 or Z06 there is nothing on that car that justifies the price. The only thing they spent money on was the carbon fiber clear coat. Everything else on it is cheap (interior, technology etc) That car does not cost much to make especially when they are using a platform, engine block, and other things that have been used for years on other GM products. Oh yeah American labor too. Speed alone just doesn't cut it for me.
You spend less, you get less quality. (low rent interior as described by every car mag out there and other shortcomings) To me the interior is one of the most important parts of the car since you are sitting in it, using controls and it is the only part of the car you see while you are driving. For me I just want a HIGH quality car, with a nice feel, nice seats (not seats that you slide around in while you are trying to drive), good steering and shifter feel. If you want to go faster in any car you have the aftermarket. BTW why would I buy a supercar from a company that is in serious trouble??????? Yeah the Z06 and ZR1 are stellar performers and that is it. There is nothing else desirable about the car(s) other than it's #s. Just my .02
Technology? What technology does Honda offer that BMW, Lexus or Chevy don't? I can name many going the other way... Honda's best auto tranny is a 5-speed, the others are at 6, 7 and 8 speeds. BWM offers a F1 manu-matic transmission, Honda doesn't. Each of BMW, Lexus and Chevy make engines with direct injection, Honda doesn't. The Honda J-series V6 is very inferior to its counterparts at BMW, Lexus and Cadillac (same company as Chevy). Both BMW and Chevy offer electronically adjustable (or self adjusting) shocks and sport and race modes for their stability control systems. The Brembo braking system (lifted from the Enzo) on the ZR1 far exceeds anything from Honda. BMW, Chevy and Lexus all make engines with vastly more power that Honda's best. GM, Toyota and BWM all have their own real-time vehicle telemetry systems, Acura uses the Onstar system from GM. [/quote]
My 05 Acura RL (actually, the wife's) falls into your scenario to a T. In the first 12 months of ownership, our RL was in the shop for nearly 30 days of unscheduled service - nearly 2 weeks for one particular issue. The electronic problems on the new RL (in the first year) are well documented and both Consumer Reports and Car & Driver published scathing reports. As you may or may not know, Acura does NOT provide loaner cars, unlike Lexus, Cadillac and others. Some dealers provide loaners on their own, but it is not a feature of the Acura warranty. So when my RL was laid-up for nearly 2 weeks awaiting for the redesigned central control unit (the unit that controls all accessories such as blinkers, trunk release, wipers, headlights, etc.) my dealer balked at providing a loaner while my car sat waiting for the part to arrive. Other times, when I brought the car in for warranty repairs in the afternoon, if all of the loaners were out, then it was TS for me.
I have a Cadillac SUV - when it goes in for service, I am guaranteed another Cadillac loaner of the same vehicle type (ie, I get a loaner SUV). Cadillac has a program with Enterprise rent-a-car to ensure that there are always loaner cars available. As a person who currently owns $50k+ cars from both Acura and Cadillac, my Cadillac ownership experience has been far better and there is no comparison when it comes to service, Cadillac service wins hands-down.
The last time I took my RL in for regular service, I had to wait for an hour for the dealer shuttle to take me home. And then I had to find my own way back to the dealer in the afternoon to pick up my car. Now ridiculous is that - the owner of the most expensive car that Acura makes is forced to find is own way to the dealer.
I agree with you about having no tolerance for dealing with car problems. That's why I will likely not buy another Acura - at least for a daily driver. Mechanically, the RL has been bullet-proof. Electrically, quite poor.
That's my 2-cents.
Brandonson, your points are absolutely on the dot. I agree completely.
TC, clearly you have had an unusual situation. HONDA reliability is not tarnished by an isolated case although I can understand your frustration with your dealership which sounds quite poor.
An extra gear in a trans is high tech ?
Self adjusting shocks isn't very impressive from my point of view. The Brembo brakes have been around for years and it's not like GM came up with the idea. Who brought navigation into a car 1st ? (Honda), Who brought variable valve timing out 1st only to be largley copied by everyone else ? (Honda) Funny how all of these other manfufacturers came up with acronyms such as Ecotec, Zetec, Mivec and VVTi. Sure does sound familiar doesn't it ? Who brought surround sound stereo to a car 1st ?(Honda) Bluetooth ? (Honda) Who brought out Hybrid technology 1st ? (Honda) GM just came out with Hyrbids only because they care complacent and BEHIND THE TIMES. 1st Hydrogen powered fuel cell car ? (Honda) Highest output per liter NA 4 cylinder in a production car ? (Honda) 1st all aluminum unibody car ?..I think everyone knows who that is. I remember hearing Porsche, Ferrari and a couple of other companies saying that it was impossible to create such a car. On another note we are discussing the Future NSX not the current offerings. The future NSX is supposed be just as ground breaking as the original according to Honda execs. If there is any truth to that then you I am sure this car will just blow everyone away. It may not be as fast as a Zo6 but I don't care. If I cared I wouldn't be a member of this forum. I would be on viperalley instead. I am aware that the RL had few issues but I do not recall the roof blowing off of it nor do I recall any oil leaks with less than 10K on the odometer, When you get a chance you want to check and see if you're Acura dealer has what is called "franchise rights". Acura does have a Acura loaner program. I do not know of any dealer that does not offer loaners. You might not get one without a appointment though. I think anyone in their right mind may understand that. One the other hand another manufacurer would keep putting the failed part in. Im glad to hear Acura wanted to keep your car until it was repaired properly.
The Cadillac / Acura dealer experience propably boils down to dealership service rather than the brand. I would recommend trying another dealer because service will vary from franchise to franchise (much like visiting one Burger King than another Burger King). Acura is VERY customer service oriented.
Last edited:
My 05 Acura RL (actually, the wife's) falls into your scenario to a T. In the first 12 months of ownership, our RL was in the shop for nearly 30 days of unscheduled service - nearly 2 weeks for one particular issue. The electronic problems on the new RL (in the first year) are well documented and both Consumer Reports and Car & Driver published scathing reports. As you may or may not know, Acura does NOT provide loaner cars, unlike Lexus, Cadillac and others. Some dealers provide loaners on their own, but it is not a feature of the Acura warranty. So when my RL was laid-up for nearly 2 weeks awaiting for the redesigned central control unit (the unit that controls all accessories such as blinkers, trunk release, wipers, headlights, etc.) my dealer balked at providing a loaner while my car sat waiting for the part to arrive. Other times, when I brought the car in for warranty repairs in the afternoon, if all of the loaners were out, then it was TS for me.
I have a Cadillac SUV - when it goes in for service, I am guaranteed another Cadillac loaner of the same vehicle type (ie, I get a loaner SUV). Cadillac has a program with Enterprise rent-a-car to ensure that there are always loaner cars available. As a person who currently owns $50k+ cars from both Acura and Cadillac, my Cadillac ownership experience has been far better and there is no comparison when it comes to service, Cadillac service wins hands-down.
The last time I took my RL in for regular service, I had to wait for an hour for the dealer shuttle to take me home. And then I had to find my own way back to the dealer in the afternoon to pick up my car. Now ridiculous is that - the owner of the most expensive car that Acura makes is forced to find is own way to the dealer.
I agree with you about having no tolerance for dealing with car problems. That's why I will likely not buy another Acura - at least for a daily driver. Mechanically, the RL has been bullet-proof. Electrically, quite poor.
That's my 2-cents.[/QUOTE]
TC, Having worked for Honda for years and deal directly with many DSm's ( district service managers) even today I canguarantee you if you complain to the service manager about your dislike of the service dept he will handle it ASAP! You will have a loaner and you will be treated correctly. Believe it or not I see your experiences with the Acura Service dept at your local dealer to be very rare! I own a couple car dealerships, I currently have an 07 TL Type-S I took it into my local Acura and had some warranty work completed. They even offered ME a loaner, ride to and from, coffee, donuts, etc etc etc! I could not believe how easy and nice the whole experience was. And I took it in for service under one of my dealers name!!! So it is not like they thought that I owned the car, They took care of everyone like that.
Honda usually prides themselves on taking care of the service customer. CSi ( customer satisfaction index) is very important also to the Service advisor and managers pay. The better they handle the customer the more money they make in bonuses etc.
Try another dealer!!!!
Also as far as Honda electrical systems, The RL is BAD!! I agree! They had alot of issues with 1st year new body RL models. They knew it and redesigned the electrical systems for the new models..
Just some info..:wink:
An extra gear in a trans is high tech ?
I didn't say that Honda never produced innovations, I asked what Honda has today that represents technology beyond the competition (available as a commerical product). You're living in the past, man! As for things like surround sound, that was a Bose product with Honda OEM'ed, along with Infiniti, Cadillac and others. I have it in my RL - it is great, but it isn't unique to Honda.
You poo-poo things that Honda doesn't have like a good auto transmission or electronic suspension but then tout stuff like Bluetooth. You're too funny - and incorrect, as it was Mercedes who first brought BT to the car market. And, BTW, it isn't that Honda is one gear behind, they are 3 gears behind Lexus, 2 gears behind BMW, Audi and Infiniti, and 1 gear behind just about everyone else. Again, as the owner of the RL, which is probably Honda's most advanced current product (yes, no?), it definitely needs more gears. Given the torque curve, 1st gear is too tall and acceleration from a dead stop is slow (even my wife complains) and fuel economy is poor - it can definitely benefit from a 2nd overdrive gear.
I can't figure out why so many Honda fans seems to feel the need to bash other makes/models. You bash the ZR1 saying "The only thing they spent money on was the carbon fiber clear coat." Uhhh - how about the carbon fiber itself? Money was clearly spent on that. How about the carbon/ceramic composite brakes from Brembo? Money was clearly spent on that. The retail price for that braking system is about $40k. The Brembo's on my NSX were nearly $10k - I can easily see how the system on the ZR1 is $40k. How about the dry sump oil system? As a guy who's had two NSX engines die from oil starvation on the track, I can appreciate the benefit of that.
If you love Honda and Honda products - great. Enjoy. I just don't see the need to bash others when Honda products clearly have their own faults and shortcomings.
JMO.
I have used Acura dealers in 3 different states. My first experience, a dealer in New York, was great. That's where I purchased my NSX and when I brought the car in for service, they would take me anywhere I needed to go, immediately. That was great.
I moved to Bay Area and things weren't as good. The dealer where my wife bought her 05 RL has a shuttle service which runs at 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00 am - and it is like a bus. You might be the first stop - you might be the last stop an hour later. That dealer told me that Acura/Honda does not provide for loaner cars - it is up to each dealer. This dealer does provide a loaner if your car is going to be more than 1 day and only for a warranty-covered repair.
In one case, my wife's car wouldn't start one afternoon - the keyless start system had failed (apparently, that central control unit under the right dash was redesigned 2 times in 6 months according to my dealer) and the car had to be towed to the dealer. At that point in the afternoon, the dealer had no loaners left. My wife was livid and I was none to happy as I had to come pick her up. At Cadillac, if the dealer had no loaners, Enterprise would bring one by in 10 minutes. In fact, many Cadillac dealership have an Enterprise location on the same property.
Perhaps Acura has changed its warranty policy - do they GUARANTEE a loaner if a vehicle requires a warranty repair?
I'm up in the Seattle area for an extended period and have started using a dealer here for service. But I haven't had any problems for about 2 years, so I can't comment on how that would be handled.
My wife will likely replace her RL in December and she isn't interested in another Acura.
Thanks for the post.
Well, at least we agree on something.
I can't comment on all the things you said about the C6 because there is just too many and all based on your opinion and not fact.
As for your comments about calling my car crap. I have had it over two years. Haven't had a single problem with it. Not one. If you spend any time on vette forums (which none of you do.. and why would you) you will find that is pretty common. Yes there will always be bad cars out there, but for the most part the C6 has been very reliable. I am pretty happy with the choice. I don't care what you think about it honestly. I have already had 2 NSXs.
I agree with you on the roof issue. That is unacceptable.
As for not understanding why anyone would pay over $100K for a Chevy, there are several owners of other exotic marks who would never understand why anyone would pay nearly $100K for a Honda. We'll see if they will pay $150K for a new one.
Last edited:
We has several electical gremlins on our TL. It was in the shop more than a few times. And he is dead on about the loaner. It was a PAIN every time we had to bring the car in.
Lexus on the other hand takes very good care of you.
Similar threads
