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Driving Ambition Goes Racing.

Re: Back on topic

92 white 0650 said:
low 1:40's. yeah, I'm impressed. :eek: Check your personal times from NSXPO 03 if you've forgotten how quick that is.

Not to mention, that's some mighty big ass to be hauling around Infineon at open wheel and sports racer times. :biggrin:
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Hi Ted,Unfortunate outcome, but I learned a bunch. Shad (as usual) showed us why we would not want to do this without him. Everything happens for a reason.

I was happy with my best lap of 1:42.1 but know that there is still 1-3 seconds there.

Where did you find lap times from NSXPO 2003?

Oh yeah, my ASS is part of my strategy for a lower center of gravity.

Thanks, Kip
 
Re: Times, what times? we don't need no steenkin times

Where did you find lap times from NSXPO 2003?
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Well, I know it's a big surprise to you, but most of us kept track of times. We would have told you yours, but then we'd have had to kill you. Remember that one time we tried to tell you and you covered your ears and yelled "lalalalalalala"? :rolleyes:

Seems to me, mine weren't much under 2:00, but I was old and clumsy even back then. :redface:
 
Hi Guys,
Sorry for not responding sooner, we have had a very busy week here @ the shop. We had a race weekend most of us would like to forget. On Friday morning I found allot of water in the engine crank case, hoping it was the just the oil to water heat exchanger we pressure checked it. It was the head gaskets, so we brought the car back to the shop and changed both head gaskets. Back at the track on Saturday everything was working great. Steve qualified 5th in class (1:50.5) and would most certainly move forward. Kip practiced and ran a 1:45.2 that put him about 5th in class. On Sunday everything fell apart, Kip did qualify 2nd in class (1:42.4), but in Steve's race he went straight back, the car would not pull above 5000 rpm and finally blow a water cap off the engine. Thinking it might be a just a plugged fuel filter and a bad water cap, we fixed them for Kip's race. But 4 laps into Kip's race while running a strong 2nd, we blow a water hose off the coolant tank. The cooling system was getting pressure from the cylinders, another blown head gasket. With the new fuel cell and fuel system we had to install, some problems accrued. The fuel filter we used was a little to restrictive and plugged up to easily. It then leaned the motor out and killed the head gasket. Next race is the first of May @ Laguna Seca, we will have it fixed and ready to race. I guess if racing was easy everyone would do it, right (or may be we are just not very smart?) Cheers, Shad
PS: Thanks Al and Don, with you guys there the tire changes and refueling went very smooth.
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Shad,I'm asuming you guys have done a lot more work to Kip's motor since I last saw the car in action at xpo 06.At that time he was fast and reliable running all day stopping /going with passengers ect.Where are you at now with the reliability/hp ratio.Does his motor need to be tweaked so much to be competative or is this just a matter of stupid little things busting.Then I wonder why they should fail at all?:redface:
 
docjohn said:
Shad,I'm asuming you guys have done a lot more work to Kip's motor since I last saw the car in action at xpo 06.At that time he was fast and reliable running all day stopping /going with passengers ect.Where are you at now with the reliability/hp ratio.Does his motor need to be tweaked so much to be competative or is this just a matter of stupid little things busting.Then I wonder why they should fail at all?:redface:
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Hi John,
Sorry for the slow response, Kip's NSX is still running great with the 3.5 liter larger SC and after cooler. It makes about 520 hp @ the wheels, I think when you saw it @ Sebring it still had the 3.2 liter and made about 420 @ the wheels. But Steve's track car (that Kip also drives) is a stock 3.2 liter with many years of use on it. If we did not have to add the fuel cell to meet the SCCA rules it might still be running fine. I think we got something in the fuel system and it plugged the filter, leaning the car out. Cheers, Shad
 
l8apex32 said:
Oil starvation due to high-G turns in a myth.

If it wasn't a myth, then all cars with "Rcomps" and "aggressive suspension" would fail, and that's not the case.

Do you not think the engineers would have considered that customers might want to modify their cars with sticky tires and suspension upgrades?
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I am with you on this one, the NSX was tested at nurburgring and Tochigi under all conditions and during its 15 year lifespan no modifications to the oil pan baffle thingy. The S2000 is an entirly different beast does not share the weight distribution of share similar power. Many people race their NSX's and the common problems are over heating etc..

If I was racing a 16 year old car for preventative maintance I would change the oil pump and lines, I am not expert but I would say an oil pump working at 50% is the cause of these engine failures, operator negligence/misguidance.
 
For proof of oiling issues in these cars, see DAL Motorsports results from Daytona 2003.

The reason you don't see more problems is because most people simply don't push their cars hard enough or simply aren't fast enough to cause problems. For the vast majority of guys doing HPDE's, they aren't capable of sustaining high enough G's to really cause major problems for a variety of reasons which include the constant traffic at an HPDE that limits the potential laptimes (due to controlled passing) and the fact that most in HPDE'ers aren't pushing near 10/10's. They might be near their limit, but that is in most cases far below the "car's" limit.

Disagree all you want but I was in driving the DAL car when the oil pump gear decided to self destruct while going through Nascar 3 and 4. The engine had held up perfectly at VIR save a little power loss due to heat soak late in the 3 hour race and other than some non-oiling related maintenance issues, held up well after the upgraded oil pump gear was installed.
 
Brian Bailey said:
For proof of oiling issues in these cars, see DAL Motorsports results from Daytona 2003.

The reason you don't see more problems is because most people simply don't push their cars hard enough or simply aren't fast enough to cause problems. For the vast majority of guys doing HPDE's, they aren't capable of sustaining high enough G's to really cause major problems for a variety of reasons which include the constant traffic at an HPDE that limits the potential laptimes (due to controlled passing) and the fact that most in HPDE'ers aren't pushing near 10/10's. They might be near their limit, but that is in most cases far below the "car's" limit.

Disagree all you want but I was in driving the DAL car when the oil pump gear decided to self destruct while going through Nascar 3 and 4. The engine had held up perfectly at VIR save a little power loss due to heat soak late in the 3 hour race and other than some non-oiling related maintenance issues, held up well after the upgraded oil pump gear was installed.
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+1

-agreed with everything you said. But one thing to keep in mind is that banking GREATLY increases the problem due to the increased lateral and constant G-loads. You'd need a 50qt accusump to last you through Daytona's banking :wink:
 
Guys I don't see myself going much beyond HPDE's, are you saying I should or should not worry? I know Bio has an accusump, but everyone I ask gives me a different answer. The oil pump gear, baffle, accusump, do you recommend any of these to someone like me?
 
Baffled oil pan and Accusump are pretty cheap insurance IMO. I am running that with an oil catch can and re-worked valve cover breathers than allow the oil pan to vent into the catch can.

Pretty slick system, I have installed a few and they work well.
 
TURBO2GO said:
Guys I don't see myself going much beyond HPDE's, are you saying I should or should not worry? I know Bio has an accusump, but everyone I ask gives me a different answer. The oil pump gear, baffle, accusump, do you recommend any of these to someone like me?
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Until you progress to solid intermediate level, and plan to do HPDE on a more regular basis (than the sex you mentioned in your other post lol!), and with also transitioning to R compound tires, you should not need them on tracks that do not have prolonged banking or turns.

But as Dave noted, baffled oil pan is a cheap insurance, and since you are running a CTSC, an Accusump is also a cheap insurance. If you do not have an oil temp and separate more reliable oil pressure gauge, I recommend you add those too.

Many of us have tracked for years without a baffled pan or Accusump with no issues - but I also concur that many have not pushed their cars to the limit nor have participated in sessions beyond 25-30 minutes.
 
titaniumdave said:
Baffled oil pan and Accusump are pretty cheap insurance IMO. I am running that with an oil catch can and re-worked valve cover breathers than allow the oil pan to vent into the catch can.

Pretty slick system, I have installed a few and they work well.
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Dave you got any more info on this trick system?

What do you guys recommend for a baffled pan? The comptech or SOS? any difference? What about the oil pump gear? is that only a concern with older cars? I need some guidance here for my situation. I definitely want no damage to the car but I also don't want to go overboard.
 
TURBO2GO said:
Dave you got any more info on this trick system?

What do you guys recommend for a baffled pan? The comptech or SOS? any difference? What about the oil pump gear? is that only a concern with older cars? I need some guidance here for my situation. I definitely want no damage to the car but I also don't want to go overboard.
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I hace the oil pan + Accusump + oil breather/separater that TiDave is mentioning.

I think it's great, but the one thing I'll mention for the average "Joe" like me is that except for the Oil pan, all of this add greater complexity.

For example, I just noticed that the line leading to my oil pan is leaking a little bit. The gauge on the Accusump seems to be somewhat faulty, the Accusump system around the *street*, with the manual switch some has issues (for example, 8 quarts of oil while you're idling.. but I'll have someone else explain it since I'm lazy..), emissions issues with the breather/separater tank, the SS lines that we got weren't the full length the first time - which means more down time + paying like $30 bucks for a SS line that's a few feet due to shipping etc...

Lastly, it ain't easy to install. Required a good bit of mechanical know-how and probably takes at least 4 - 8 hours for someone that is a competent mechanic.

Just fyi Turbo2Go. Personally, if you're smart and you ain't driving like a mad man on the track, I think the baffled oil pan is good enough. Good excuse to change the oil pan gasket which tends to eventually leak anywa and Dave will ceramic coat it for you to give you a little more temp resistance...
 
slownsxt said:
I think it's great, but the one thing I'll mention for the average "Joe" like me is that except for the Oil pan, all of this add greater complexity.
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I echoe these sentiments. It does add a degree of mechanical complexity that can make for some inconvenience. The more things can wrong, the more they will.

All that said (and I'm sure most will agree) the addition of oiling reliability equipment (esp. the Accusump) is better than the alternative of a busted engine. And having the extra oil capacity to maintain reasoanble oil temps is good too. Matter of fact, I think I'm at 11qts total in mine.
 
slownsxt said:
Dave - Did you ever go with a different design which you mentioned in the origional thread?
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The baffled, trap door pan is done, lots of work so I have not promoted it. Cost will be $425 to install it in your pan.
 
titaniumdave said:
The baffled, trap door pan is done, lots of work so I have not promoted it. Cost will be $425 to install it in your pan.
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Dave, forgive the request for more simplicity here, maybe it will help some others too. I read that thread and it was most informative. What route are you recommending for a part-time weekend track guy like myself? I don't mind spending the extra $300 or so if you think it is worth getting the hinged baffle? I am trying to stay away from extra complexity that slownsxt is mentioning. To me the fewer parts the better. I am also not keen on taking up my trunk space with an accusump as I need it for my targa (no engine cover). I just don't want to be foolish about this especially with a supercharged engine. I was going to send a PM but thought better to ask so everyone can get an answer.

Wow I have completely hijacked Shad's thread. Sorry Shad!
 
Wow,

Its funny how prime posts just change topics at will, as I never had an oil problem with my race car and I have no baffle in the pan my .02

Steve
 
slownsxt said:
Dave - Is that price + core?
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Are you serious, Is this a oil pan thread, does this have anything to do with
Driving Ambition Goes Racing ???????? oR should it read Dave has oil pan shit for sale
By the way Driving Ambition has oil pan Baffles in stock that were made for the 3.5 ltr oil pans just as HIM on his thread

Steve
 
SMGNSX said:
Are you serious, Is this a oil pan thread, does this have anything to do with
Driving Ambition Goes Racing ???????? oR should it read Dave has oil pan shit for sale
By the way Driving Ambition has oil pan Baffles in stock that were made for the 3.5 ltr oil pans just as HIM on his thread

Steve
Click to expand...

...perhaps you can PM me and we can continue this conversation, or any one who wants start a new thread about baffled oil pans. Like Steve says, he has had an Accusump for years and has never had an oiling issue!

Steve,
Hope you get the car back together soon!

Dave
 

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