Evo mag saying no new NSX too! :-(

[NetViper]

Don't want to beat this to death, but somehow, DODGE did it... The Viper became a performance benchmark that still sits unchallenged, can actually scare Ferraris at the track, and carries exclusivity. It outsells the NSX 8 fold, I believe, and is still being developed (cool stuff like the competition coupe, the forthcoming SRT 10 based GTS, and the rumors of a 600hp edition). And lets not forget, the Dodge premiered waaaay back in 1992.

Why can't Honda challenge Dodge? They did it in 1991 when the NSX was born. The NSX of today is just nowhere near the car of the NSX of 1991. They can CHOOSE to do it again today if they wanted to.

My main point is that they should either get in, or get out, and not go half way.

Hmm.. you got me there. The Viper is an animal. It was a success though because of it brute force. HP/TQ. It sure wasn't because of its build quality, handling or braking. The 03 is a much better car all around, but it is still the HUGE HP and TQ that draws people to the car.

If Honda wanted that same recognition, they need to make a 500HP V10 NSX. If they do a 3.5L V6 with 350 HP, nobody will EVER notice it.

 

[mlambert890]

If you ask me, the other Japanese manufacturers have delivered less for more, not more for less.

I dont think the RX-8 is anywhere near the car the mighty FD7 was, and personally, I think the last 300Z TT was more impressive than the 350Z.

To me, it seems like the Japanese manufacturers have strayed away from the performance benchmark game to go more against the "sporty coupe" segment.

As for the Supra, its even more uncertain than the NSX with a similar story (first its $150k, then its $40k, first its coming, then its not).

I think the Japanese have become gunshy since the old days...

 

[NetViper]

I sort of agree, but the RX8 and 350Z deliver good performance for WAY less money than the RX7 and 300TT were going for. That is why they are sucessful today.

 

[mlambert890]

Thats true... they went down market essentially... Both nice cars, but we arent going to be seeing showdowns against the Cobra and the Vette anymore...

 

[Johnny@JETZ]

3.5L V6 with 350 HP for $70k, FINE! but don't name it NSX please. 3.7L V8 with 450+hp for $83k is more likely what Honda will do if they want to release the new NSX.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Everybody speaks about the new Honda sportcar beating the NSX... as I posted above, what I got is that it will be a +260hp sportcar not a 350hp sportcar.

I am pretty sure they won't sell a 350hp mid engine car (not NSX successor) for 60k-70k$.

 

[CerberusM5]

The current RX's and Z's are now at least $20k less than their predecessors if you convert 1995 dollars to current dollars.

The twin turbo Z's , RX's, Supras and 3000s all started to pass in the mid 90's because they got too expensive (up to almost $50k) which priced them financially out of reach of the average enthusiast (target market) and the with SUV craze starting, that put the final nail in the coffin for the Japanese sports car market.

I think it is great that Nissan, Mazda and Honda are reviving this sector of the market. However, I don't think they could sell sports cars in the $50k-60k range in sufficient numbers. A new NSX with 350 hp selling in that $60k price range would languish in my opinion.

There are too many people that would rather waste $50k-60k on a lame SUV such as Escalades, Navigators, Denalis and etc versus a sexy, narrow focused sports car.

In regards to the NSX; I think it needs to remain a relatively low volume production sports car priced in the $80k-90k range. Honda shocked the sports car industry in 1990 by hitting a grand slam with the NSX. Honda can do it again if it wants to. They should build a car that competes head-to-head with the upcoming 997 turbo and 420 Modena, but price it similar to a Carrera S. Honda needs to aim high and showcase its engineering prowess once again.

If Honda is not willing to do this, then it needs to get out of the high-end sports car market. Otherwise, it will be offering lease incentives on the new NSX from day one.

Just my two cents.

 

[comquat1]

Doing a low volume sports car will most likely not even cover the costs of development. That's why I think going down market back to $60,000 or so where they started last time will move more cars off the lot as compared to the 200 or so they've been selling. We have to remember Honda needs a profitable business case to bring something to market, they're not as on fire competetively like they were in the 80's.

I just look at how Nissan made the new Z perform pretty close to the 300zx turbo yet drop $15,000 off of the sticker price. I think if Honda played their cards right they could bring the NSX back down in cost with the new technologies that are available.

 

[CerberusM5]

Doing a low volume sports car will most likely not even cover the costs of development. That's why I think going down market back to $60,000 or so where they started last time will move more cars off the lot as compared to the 200 or so they've been selling. We have to remember Honda needs a profitable business case to bring something to market, they're not as on fire competetively like they were in the 80's.

I just look at how Nissan made the new Z perform pretty close to the 300zx turbo yet drop $15,000 off of the sticker price. I think if Honda played their cards right they could bring the NSX back down in cost with the new technologies that are available.

You have a very good point in regards to recouping the R&D costs. When I said relatively low volume, I meant maybe 800 to 1,000 units a year versus the current 200+.

Has Honda recovered its original R&D expense on the current NSX? I heard that Honda was losing money continuing to produce the NSX. Is this true?

 

[comquat1]

If they could get their money back on 1000 units a year that might not be so bad. The last thing I want is 50,000 NSX (replacements) running around my neighborhood depreciating in value faster than a Corvette does. I like the exclusivity that my current NSX gives me in my neck of the woods, I don't want that changed for humongous volume issues.

I dunno if they are still losing money, I would hope not, plus I doubt they would continue producing them based on who's running the show there now versus back in the 80's.

 

[NetViper]

I can't see how they could possibly still be losing money after 15 years of making the same thing.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Losing money = not having recovered the fixed costs (R&D + building Tochigi + R&D for NSX-T + facelift in 2002 + ...) and the running costs (materials fir every car + Tochigi's running costs + employees building the NSX + logisitc + sales + ...).

Since the original Business Case was something like 3000 cars per year and they probably wanted to sell it for 7-8 years I would say that yes, Honda is losing money still today.

 

[danpiu]

definitely yes! According to a reliable source, R&D of NSX has been very high in the 80's ( 4 - 5 Billions). On the other hand the NSX was the prototype for all further Honda vehicles.
What about next Honda sportscar? What do you think ?, is that project definitely dead or do they maybe wait until new Ferrari 420 Modena and Toyota GT are released?

 

[danpiu]

Yesterday, I have read an interesting article about the makers of GT 4 for playstation. They said that definitely all cars were tested in real for helping to develop the game. As we know, the HSC is part of the game. It's a moot question whether they could testdrive the HSC and.... why does Honda say yes to HSC in Playstation??

 

[RyRy210]

The HSC is a working car, and there has been a road test done on it in Japan (I have the article). Whether it'll make it into production is another story.

 

[Johnny@JETZ]

Can you post the article please

 

[mlambert890]

Doing a low volume sports car will most likely not even cover the costs of development. That's why I think going down market back to $60,000 or so where they started last time will move more cars off the lot as compared to the 200 or so they've been selling. We have to remember Honda needs a profitable business case to bring something to market, they're not as on fire competetively like they were in the 80's.

I just look at how Nissan made the new Z perform pretty close to the 300zx turbo yet drop $15,000 off of the sticker price. I think if Honda played their cards right they could bring the NSX back down in cost with the new technologies that are available.

I think if they do this, they shouldnt call it an NSX. I think its a sad statement that the old 300Z TT outperforms a 2004 350Z. It may make economic sense for Nissan, but it proves the point of the Porsche and Ferrari purists who will say "see, the Japanese will never have staying power".

The NSX has always been the lone demonstration of Japanese comittment to purity.

If they cave in and release a budget car that performs slightly better than, or slightly worse than, the current NSX at tens of thousands less and mass produce it under the NSX name, they may please all of the dreamers who think they are buying the real NSX heritage (which they won't be), but they definitely will be losing a good portion of the folks who have been buying the 200 cars a year and showing faith in Honda (me among them).

That will be great for sales (they can sell 10's of thousands of the "new NSX" just like Corvettes), but it will pretty much end it for Japan in terms of being a serious consideration for anyone who can actually afford a Porsche or Ferrari. With only 200 units a year being shifted and all of the other high-end Japanese sports cars long canceled, maybe the market has already dictated this fate anyhow.

 

[Doc C]

The RX8 and 350Z did go down market and it has worked well for Nissan and Mazda. They did drop the vehicles for quite awhile before re-introducing them. This was smart so that they didn't screw the people who bought the last year of production of the older model. If Honda drops price on NSX $18K and improves performance for 2005. I sure wouldn't get one. They would have just screwed me on my 2004's value by doing that. Toyota really burned some bridges by doing the discount they did, and that was on the same car, not a new redesigned model.

 

[timothyaw]

My main point is that they should either get in, or get out, and not go half way.

You're EXACTLY right, thats the point Honda is at right now. They are at a stage where time has ran out and they have to make a decision on where they want to head. I for one have always been a Honda fan, but if they mess this up like others I will have to look elsewhere when my NSX finally goes away(hopefully a very long time from now

 

[CNK]

IMO Honda should release 2 new cars..

One is a revival Prelude,
But with RWD and an engine based on the NSX V6 to compete with say, Corvettes, 350Z, RX-8 etc,

the other would be a new V8 NSX with the front of the HSC, and a redesigned rear...

A new prelude like that might undermine S2000 sales though...

ah well i can dream..