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Hawk HP+ vs Project Mu B-Spec vs Project Mu HC+

MvM

Legendary Member
Joined
12 February 2002
Messages
3,021
Location
Rotterdam, Netherlands
This year I have been using my NSX more often on the track than ever before.
I still drive it many times on the streets as well.
Also, because of the CTSC that I now have, my speeds are higher.
So far I have been using the Hawk HPS and Hawk HP+ pads and prefer the Hawk HP+ for my kind of driving.
Both Hawk pads however dust like crazy, simply can't get my wheels to stay clean even for a few miles of driving.

Have been looking at the Project Mu B-Spec and HC+ pads but I cannot find any experiences with them here on Prime.

Has anyone been using them on both street and track? From what I read, the standard Project M NS pads dust less than the Hawk HPS pad, which is fine, but I would prefer a more agressive pad for my driving.

Can anyone tell me how the Hawk HP+ pads compare to either of these Project Mu pads?
Any advice would be welcome.
 
+1 on the Porterfield R4S. I use them now but on my BBK. Some say it's old technology and some here said they aren't as durable (as in they crumbled to pieces) but so far so good for me.

I use HP+ for my BRZ and have used them before on my NSX on the stock calipers. They work but not my favorite. They squeak (though someone here will chime in shortly saying they don't) a lot on both my NSX and the BRZ. I only put them on because I rarely track my BRZ and when I do it's on stock tires and because the OEM pads are soft. It's also easy to swap pads on that car. The metallic compound on the HP+ use to rust on my wheels IIRC.

I've heard of many good things about the Project Mu and the Carbotech pads from the local guys but I haven't used either.

If you were strictly choosing between the Hawks and Project Mu i'd personally choose the Mus unless you wanted something cheap to track with and will be swapping them out for stock pads to use on the street. I can't stand them on the street personally.

Post videos! Would love to see how the tracks are in Europe.
 
^^ same about the Porterfields. Been using them as double duty for the last 9 years. I currently have the Mu's on my My NSX front and the R4s on the rear, after about 5 track days i find its more difficult to modulate the brakes and I lock up when diving into a corner (no abs). In fact last time out there was so much smoke spewing from my tires that Ryeen kept thinking i blew my motor :/. I'm switching back to proterfields on my next set. Also when the Mu's are cold they SUCK.
 
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I know you didnt ask for another pad comparison but you really should throw the Pagid Yellow RS29 compound into your equation.
My brake expert down here got me to change over about a year ago i drive the car most weeks and have done about 12 track days on them with some mintex pads on the rear, no squealing at all a bit of dust and great feel i have used the other two but really like this setup way better than the Hawks i will never use them again.
Otherwise its the Porterfields all day long
 
Might try out Porterfield's sounds like they should be good, (there not even expensive)
In my experience with HP+ is that they squeal quiet a bit at low temp and produce a lot of dust.
Although the stopping power is very nice.

For daily driving StopTech's are nice but they aren't a tracking pad.
Not that big a fan of Ferodo's certainly not when cold.

I have good experiences with EBC and run them on one of my own cars, I know a lot of people dislike EBC.

After browsing there site i see they also have drum brake shoes in the same compounds... Maybe i'll give those a try on my classic project.

 
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I've had some bad experiences with the Porterfield R4S. The stopping power was just okay (not as good as the HP+ IMHO - sorry Billy but we'll just have to disagree on this). And on one of my cars (not the NSX), when the brakes got hot, the brake pad backing plate (the metal part of the brake pad) softened enough to fold around the brake piston.

If dusting is a concern, I recommend trying a set of the stock pads. They've worked well for me, including on the track, and they don't dust much. They're not as aggressive as track-only aftermarket pads, though.
 
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I've had some bad experiences with the Porterfield R4S. The stopping power was just okay (not as good as the HP+ IMHO - sorry Billy but we'll just have to disagree on this). And on one of my cars (not the NSX), when the brakes got hot, the brake pad backing plate (the metal part of the brake pad) softened enough to fold around the brake piston.

If dusting is a concern, I recommend trying a set of the stock pads. They've worked well for me, including on the track, and they don't dust much. They're not as aggressive as track-only aftermarket pads, though.
No problem. We usually disagree. :) IMO the R4S have more bite than HP+.

FWIW, the R4S pads have been on my DD for over 20K miles including doing a 1:58.994 at Buttonwillow without any fading issues:

 
I've had some bad experiences with the Porterfield R4S. The stopping power was just okay (not as good as the HP+ IMHO - sorry Billy but we'll just have to disagree on this). And on one of my cars (not the NSX), when the brakes got hot, the brake pad backing plate (the metal part of the brake pad) softened enough to fold around the brake piston.
As you can see in these photos (yes, I held onto those pads, for kicks):

IMG_2364a_zps790ebe38.jpg


IMG_2365a_zps88f0bbd0.jpg


IMG_2367a_zpsaf0643b8.jpg
 
Maybe the compound has changed over the years for the better..but the r4s I used sucked....from new to backing plate in 1.5 days at the glen and just crumbled to nothingness.......that was about 10 years ago.
 
I used Project Mu NS at HPR last year and while they did stop ok, they turned to charcoal briquettes and crumbled in my hands after a half day session. I have HPS on the car now and used the rears at the track (front Carbotech XP8) with no issues. The HPS dust a lot compared to my Project Mu's. Thinking of trying Carbotech 1521 pads next for street.
 
As you can see in these photos (yes, I held onto those pads, for kicks):
What track? Ive seen that happen to a ton of pads with a single-piston sliding caliper design (which sucks) -especially the stock front brakes on RSX, TSX, Civics, etc... Thankfully the 2-piston NSX design spreads the pressure over a larger surface area which helps prevent that "Banana-ing" effect.
 
What track?
This one.

Ive seen that happen to a ton of pads with a single-piston sliding caliper design (which sucks) -especially the stock front brakes on RSX, TSX, Civics, etc... Thankfully the 2-piston NSX design spreads the pressure over a larger surface area which helps prevent that "Banana-ing" effect.
I understand that. However, I've tracked numerous cars with single-piston calipers (including over 10K actual track miles on one of them), and numerous brands/models of brake pads, and the Porterfield R4S is the only pad I've ever experienced that with.
 
my crappy experience with them was on my brembo indys.
 
I understand that. However, I've tracked numerous cars with single-piston calipers (including over 10K actual track miles on one of them), and numerous brands/models of brake pads, and the Porterfield R4S is the only pad I've ever experienced that with.
I've personally experienced it with many race pads, which is mostly due to extreme tracking/racing with 1piston calipers. If rules allow, upgrading the brakes is the best option other than improving the cooling of the system. At the end of the day, almost any pad can have this happen in an undercooled racing scenario and the R4S is not a full blown track/race pad but a dual purpose one that does its job very well. If you or anyone else plans on severely tracking their car and are fast enough to have this issue, a race pad would be a better choice and or upgrading the calipers to begin with.
 
Thanks for all the advice.
Seems that not every one agrees on what would be best.

Personally, I would like something that has more bite than the Hawk HPS / Project Mu NS pads.
I still have the HP+ at hand and will try the B-Spec and just see what they are like.
 
HPS is good for fast daily & cruiser,
For occasionally track duty I'd go HP+,

And +1 on billy's comments on cooling and twin piston calipers,
Getting good flow to and around the caliper is very important I've seen cars with decent brake setups fade and fail due to insufficient cooling.
That being said driving style on track is also a huge factor. (how you brake in to corners)
 
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