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Housing Market in the US

Joined
11 February 2007
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1,210
Location
SF Bay Area
Anybody here think it's a good time to buy a house right now? I don't think we're at the bottom but definitely seeing some good deals out there right now. I'm sure we all noticed prices are going up everywhere, not just gas. Few of my favorite places to eat just raised their price in May, and groceries are going up in prices as well. Someone once told me real estate is a good investment to hedge against inflation.

Any thoughts to share?
 
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which states do you all think are the best deals on the market, or the closest to hitting bottom?
 
I've been wondering about this for a while too. I'm moving, and trying to decide whether to buy immediately or rent for a while first to let things bottom out.

I'm sure it is area-dependent, but my subjective observations as a buyer are:
1. Decline in value seems to be slowing. I think prices will go down a little more, but we won't see 2002/3 levels again.
2. Inventory is still high, but not growing
3. Plenty of ARMs still to adjust
4. Non delusional sellers expect to negotiate or sit on it for another 9 months.

As an example, I am looking at a property originally built in 1998.
It sold new 12/99, lets make that baseline 100%
Sold again 7/03 for 137%
Sold again 2/06 for 225%
Foreclosed (needs cleaned, painted)
Currently listed as an 'as is bank short sale' for 171%
I'm considering buying at <150%

My personal feeling is that if I can buy something really smartly, I would start to consider doing that. However, I think the best bargains will be had 6-8 months from now.

Any Real Estate experts with an opinion or some hard data?
 
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Anybody here think it's a good time to buy a house right now? I don't think we're at the bottom but definitely seeing some good deals out there right now. I'm sure we all noticed prices are going up everywhere, not just gas. Few of my favorite places to eat just raised their price in May, and groceries are going up in prices as well. Someone once told me real estate is a good investment to hedge against inflation.

Any thoughts to share?

Here's my 2 cents....IMO I would not buy real estate right now unless I knew I was staying in that house for 10+ years. (10 years is an arbitrary number that I believe will allow the real estate market to pick up again in the future) Given the increased cost for gas, commodies and an increasing unemployment rate, it appears we are heading into a recession if not already, so the worst is yet to come in my book. Why buy an asset (i.e. 3500 sq ft house for $10 bucks today), when all the signs indicate that same house will be selling for $6 bucks in 2-3 years? Renting would be the better alternative until the housing market re-stablizes and heads in a positive direction (assuming you haven't purchased already). But with that said, if money is not an issue, and you absolutely love the house......I say go for it!
 
Not that my street is any indicator of the overall housing market, but about 8 months ago, there were probably 10 homes, with at least half bank owned, on my street. 4 months ago there was probably about 5 or 6. Now there is only 3. Whether it is the right time or not, it seems as if people are buying.
 
If you need to buy a home, just do it. If you are buying it strictly as an investment, you are gambling. If you are doing a little of both, you are probably OK if you understand what you are getting in to.

It's still nothing more supply and demand, but not too many people understand the variables that make those up in this particular case.

Demand is only lightly correlated with how much people 'want' to buy a house. For most goods, this is the main component. For homes, the lending environment is the most prominent factor. People don't buy homes 99% of the time-banks buy homes and people rent them from the banks until they pay off the loan in full. Just like you rent your property from the state and they will quickly remind you of that fact if you don't pay your property taxes.

Demand has been reduced drastically and this has not been 'resolved'. Everyone has heard the stories of great credit, great job, etc. being denied for a loan. This is related to the lending environment again and is also far from 'resolved'.

Regarding supply, there are a few factors, the most important being the amount of new homes put on the market and the number of used homes being put on the market. Due to various obligations, builders are still building new homes and contruction permits, although down sharply, are not where one would expect a 'bottom' to occur. Used homes are flooding the market because of mis-priced risk. A main contributor is ARM's [which have not peaked in resets which would suggest perhaps 50% of the contraction has taken place at that point]. These ARM resets which in a large % of cases result in a forclosure within 60 days also cause a drag on housing prices which in itself causes people to give up on their mortgages and the pattern repeats itself.

Does it depend on area? Almost a dumb question if there is such a thing. Of course it does.

For instance, in most parts of Texas I work in, there is still tons of new home construction and prices have fallen a modest 8-12%. Oil prices and relatively cheap property has helped support the market. However, in Austin I go through the Travis county forclosure book in the tax office about once a week. The number of forclosures is accelerating and* the percentage of properties that are not selling and end up in next month's auction are increasing.

Regardless of what you decide to do [if you have a family and need a home just buy the home and who cares], the past 5 years of house value appreciation will not be repeated again in most of our lifetimes. Many people have a blurred reality as to what to expect in the future, don't assume it'll be much if any better than matching inflation. I consider housing an expense and not an investment. You wouldn't get too many people excited about a 200,000$ investment of a mutual fund that required several thousand a year in 'ownership taxes' seperate from capital gains tax, thousands a year in 'expenses' like heat/water, couple thousand a year in 'maintenance fees' such as the lawn, homeowner's association, the list goes on.
 
Cash is still king, as other people have posted. If you need one to live do it, for a investment wait. I passed a new neighborhood yesterday with 40+ homes and they all are 50k off. I feel bad for the people that bought last year before the sale.
 
I bought recently...The thing to watch is the lending rates, not just the prices......When I was in escrow, the rates were going up and down like a yo- yo......
 
There are 3 forclosures on my street. Times are bad in So Cal and Vegas. I would wait a while. I have pondered the same thing and decided to wait it out.
 
If you really want to buy as an investment, go buy in Dallas or Austin.

I usually have a contrarian philosophy when it comes to investing....which is when people are running for the hills with their hair on fire, it is time to buy. When everybody is buying, it is time to sell.

If you're thinking about flipping and making a quick buck, you know the risks. For me, investments are more long term, and I try not to time the bottom of the market. If the intrinsic value is higher than the market price, then it is a good buy.
 
I was at the RISE symposium about two months ago. Couple of the keynote speakers were real-estate BILLIONAIRES...

They said on average the housing market had another 50% to go before the bottom was put in.

It only seems like there are deals on the market right now because were used to the overinflated pricing. I plan on waiting another year and half to two years before i consider purchasing.

Forclosure rates are increasing, unemployment is going up, fuel costs are going up, were in a recession, (all of these factors will only continue to cripple the housing markets). what makes anyone belive that this thing is over and your getting a hell of a deal right now?
 
what makes anyone belive that this thing is over and your getting a hell of a deal right now?


Hope, and hope is not a strategy.
 
I was at the RISE symposium about two months ago. Couple of the keynote speakers were real-estate BILLIONAIRES...

They said on average the housing market had another 50% to go before the bottom was put in.

It only seems like there are deals on the market right now because were used to the overinflated pricing. I plan on waiting another year and half to two years before i consider purchasing.

Forclosure rates are increasing, unemployment is going up, fuel costs are going up, were in a recession, (all of these factors will only continue to cripple the housing markets). what makes anyone belive that this thing is over and your getting a hell of a deal right now?

this is dead on accurate IMO.

Also to the original poster, the reason why your favorite restaurant had to raise it's prices is because it didn't hedge. Had they done so they wouldn't have to raise prices. The restaurants that did hedge will come out the winner. The economy now is the economy that makes and breaks businesses. Your favorite restaurant may change to the one that doesn't raise it's prices
 
this is dead on accurate IMO.

Also to the original poster, the reason why your favorite restaurant had to raise it's prices is because it didn't hedge. Had they done so they wouldn't have to raise prices. The restaurants that did hedge will come out the winner. The economy now is the economy that makes and breaks businesses. Your favorite restaurant may change to the one that doesn't raise it's prices

Please enlighten... hedge with what? Buying up tons of alcohol and selling them to people drowning their woes? :biggrin:
 
Here's a good article that was on Forbes.com at the end of April. It's the top 10 cities in the U.S. that are basically recession proof. Where I live is #6. Where I grew up is #1. Texas seems pretty safe and is mentioned several times on the list.
 
Here's a good article that was on Forbes.com at the end of April. It's the top 10 cities in the U.S. that are basically recession proof. Where I live is #6. Where I grew up is #1. Texas seems pretty safe and is mentioned several times on the list.

Texas is a special spot but has its own set of risks. For those who did business in the S&L crises in Texas they probably know what I'm referring to. Texas is heavily energy dependent. Look up your 10 favorite domestic oil stock plays on yahoo finance and click 'profile' on the left hand column. They are all head quartered in Houston. Lots of refining takes place here as well. What this causes is a unique situation. In rougher times for the rest of the nation, such as right now, the growing* job market in the largest sector in Houston is keeping real estate and employment strong.

However, this can also work as a 'double whammy'. When oil dropped 40$ in one day when the rest of the economy was already weak, Texas became ground zero almost over night. My father was recently employed to a high position in the state insurance board in austin during that time. It got so bad so quick the state government had to completely overhaul several entire industries in order for them not to go bankrupt. For instance, our title insurance industry in Texas is the only one in the entire united states with fixed, non market rates. This was required at the time because any and all real estate transactions would have grinded to an absolute halt without the basic services that were no longer remotely profitable such as title insurance.

Now if you look up Stewart Title etc. they sometimes get HALF of their entire income from the state of Texas ALONE because these rules have never been adjusted back to pre-disaster market conditions.

For those of us that follow the market closely it's not difficult to understand the pattern in which the country stalls, oil maintains, then collapses and brings Houston down with it. That's ok, that's what 'short selling' is for.
 
Texas is a special spot but has its own set of risks. For those who did business in the S&L crises in Texas they probably know what I'm referring to. Texas is heavily energy dependent. Look up your 10 favorite domestic oil stock plays on yahoo finance and click 'profile' on the left hand column. They are all head quartered in Houston. Lots of refining takes place here as well. What this causes is a unique situation. In rougher times for the rest of the nation, such as right now, the growing* job market in the largest sector in Houston is keeping real estate and employment strong.

However, this can also work as a 'double whammy'. When oil dropped 40$ in one day when the rest of the economy was already weak, Texas became ground zero almost over night. My father was recently employed to a high position in the state insurance board in austin during that time. It got so bad so quick the state government had to completely overhaul several entire industries in order for them not to go bankrupt. For instance, our title insurance industry in Texas is the only one in the entire united states with fixed, non market rates. This was required at the time because any and all real estate transactions would have grinded to an absolute halt without the basic services that were no longer remotely profitable such as title insurance.

Now if you look up Stewart Title etc. they sometimes get HALF of their entire income from the state of Texas ALONE because these rules have never been adjusted back to pre-disaster market conditions.

For those of us that follow the market closely it's not difficult to understand the pattern in which the country stalls, oil maintains, then collapses and brings Houston down with it. That's ok, that's what 'short selling' is for.


I'll say Texas is "special". For some reason people there are Longhorns fans instead of the Sooners.:rolleyes: :tongue:
 
Here's a good article that was on Forbes.com at the end of April. It's the top 10 cities in the U.S. that are basically recession proof. Where I live is #6. Where I grew up is #1. Texas seems pretty safe and is mentioned several times on the list.

Rochester, N.Y is ~45 miles from where I am in NY. Property here is a solid investment but it is not speculative. It takes time to make solid returns but if you stay the course the returns are guaranteed. It's sucks getting through the first few years.

As for primary residence I can't think of a worse place to buy except maybe the north pole. Winters suck.
 
I'll say Texas is "special". For some reason people there are Longhorns fans instead of the Sooners.:rolleyes: :tongue:

You know what I have noticed about Texas. Pull up ebay motors, put it on buy it now arranged from lowest to highest price. Look at expensive high end vehicles like BMW or Mercedes or whacked out pick up trucks. Almost always the cheapest one will be in Texas.
 
I could be wrong, but houses don't "rebound" like stocks. I think they've got a ways to fall(I'm thinking 1998/1999 levels) and then they're going to take around 10-15 years to get back up.

I would wait a year or two to buy a house. Let them get all the way to the bottom.
House's haven't fallen yet IMO. Just wait until the interest rate rises from it's current 30 year low. People are REALLY going to start losing their houses. The blood we see now is a flesh wound. I think a killing is going to happen...
 
If you really want to buy as an investment, go buy in Dallas or Austin.

I usually have a contrarian philosophy when it comes to investing....which is when people are running for the hills with their hair on fire, it is time to buy. When everybody is buying, it is time to sell.

If you're thinking about flipping and making a quick buck, you know the risks. For me, investments are more long term, and I try not to time the bottom of the market. If the intrinsic value is higher than the market price, then it is a good buy.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear in the original post. I'm talking about buying a house right now for investment, long term investment.

I'm looking at minimum 5, but more like 10 to 15 years down the road.

With this time frame, I think the risk of losing would be minimized.
 
this is dead on accurate IMO.

Also to the original poster, the reason why your favorite restaurant had to raise it's prices is because it didn't hedge. Had they done so they wouldn't have to raise prices. The restaurants that did hedge will come out the winner. The economy now is the economy that makes and breaks businesses. Your favorite restaurant may change to the one that doesn't raise it's prices


Places like Subway hedged, hell they went to LOWER pricing and now the person I know who has 8 of them has 50% more business at each one on average, profit is not as high but they are doing the "Wal-Mart" thing and it's working well. Food waste is less as well and the only downfall is staff may have to work a little harder but that's about it.
 
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