HSC was perfect, only needed more HP! Why?

[NSXBat]

Dear Honda,

Your HSC was a perfect car..... you only made one mistake!
It needed more than 300 HP

Why did you scrap the perfect design instead of adding HP?

Now, you have a new car that is 90% nightmare, but its got the HP.

This new car is nothing special, everyone has front engine GT that looks like the 350Z
(Lexus, BMW, Austin Martin, and Audi, all fighting for this "look")

PLEASssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeee Honda.... fix the one problem with the HSC and bring us the half-price 430 exotic car.

The HSC is soooooo close to having a car that is unique-
an affordable Ferrari/Lamborghini exotic mid-engine low-and-sexy, sleek!!! not another front engine GT 350Z copy, every-one is doing that already!

If you put the engine in front, you can't have the look of an exotic (308, TR, 355, F40, Esprit, Lambo,) all the extoics we lust after have one thing in common!!! They have the engine in the back and it gives them a look that is not like the 350Z with the SUV size front nose.

 

[swbatte]

+1

Build a HSC with 400hp V6. Keep it under $100k and I'll buy one to. I was ready to put a deposit down at my Acura dealership when I saw it.

 

[White98LS]

Honda decided not to do the HSC because of unfavorable public reaction. If that is true then they really shouldn't build this ASCC!! However, if you look back at Prime and TOV posts when the HSC was released, the reactions weren't nearly as positive as they are now. So many people whined, "looks too much like an Enzo" and "I don't like the back, it doesn't look like an NSX" etc. Look it up, the initial reaction was not overwhelmingly positive like it is now. Maybe the ASCC just makes the HSC look SO MUCH better. Yeah, yeah I think so. :frown:

 

[6spdterror]

I liked the HSC from the get go when it was first shown to the public. It is essentially a honda fans' dream. It looks exotic and has the reliabilty thats non-existent in this field. The only thing it lacked was an 8 or 10 cylinder engine. When i look at all these track videos and i see NSXs winning against cars with twice the HP it reminds me that honda knows how to build an exotic race car for the streets. All the NSX ever needed was more power. I doubt they care what we think on this site but i would buy an HSC with more power anyday of the week.

 

[Silver F16]

The HSC will suffice with a high powered V6. The 911 GT3 is 415HP with a flat 6. I'm sure Honda can achieve those figures.

Agreed to the post below with one exception.

The basic layout was great because it didn't deviate too much from NSX.

However, some detailed styling elements need to be cleaned up, such as:

1. Rear view - cluttered Tail lights and sharp bumper cutoff
2. B Pillar was angled the wrong way
3. Side intake could be better integrated or just make it the same as NSX for the "Heritage" look
4. The see thru glass for the engine was poorly integrated and appeared to be an after thought. Need to look at F430 or Audi R8 for some inspiration here.

Styling elements that I love about the HSC:

1. Slight upward swinging doors.
2. Low front hood line unlike the ASCC. With the HSC, there is no need to raise the hood to meet pedestrian crash requirements because the engine is not under the hood.
3. No center line crease that is all over every Acura car these days
4. Overall profile and proportions are perfect. Short overhangs. Great length, width, along with a height slightly under the NSX's 46.1 inches.

Come on Honda, build the HSC. You will capture sales from the NSX community (past and present), the 911/Boxster/Cayman community, as well as buyers who aren't willing to spend $180K for a Ferrari F430.

The HSC is so much better than the ASCC.

Dear Honda,

Your HSC was a perfect car..... you only made one mistake!
It needed more than 300 HP

Why did you scrap the perfect design instead of adding HP?

Now, you have a new car that is 90% nightmare, but its got the HP.

This new car is nothing special, everyone has front engine GT that looks like the 350Z
(Lexus, BMW, Austin Martin, and Audi, all fighting for this "look")

PLEASssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeee Honda.... fix the one problem with the HSC and bring us the half-price 430 exotic car.

The HSC is soooooo close to having a car that is unique-
an affordable Ferrari/Lamborghini exotic mid-engine low-and-sexy, sleek!!! not another front engine GT 350Z copy, every-one is doing that already!

If you put the engine in front, you can't have the look of an exotic (308, TR, 355, F40, Esprit, Lambo,) all the extoics we lust after have one thing in common!!! They have the engine in the back and it gives them a look that is not like the 350Z with the SUV size front nose.

 

[DRIFTER]

ASCC just makes the HSC look SO MUCH better.

+1:frown:

 

[Zuerst]

One more vote for HSC like car with more horsepower.

 

[bluethunder]

Just wanted an updated look with more horsepower. The HSC was pretty close for me.

 

[ak]

Maybe the cost vs profit aspect of the project for HSC didnt look great for Honda. It's too bad because if they kept it up, it would be released just about now ahead of Skyline, LF-A etc etc and create huge buzz.

 

[kreh]

I agree with these posts. I would buy the HSC with the improvements mentioned if priced under $100K however I would also keep my NSX.

 

[Gaymond]

I always thought the HSC was gorgeous and I would probably be able to justify buying it new (but no adm's)

 

[TC]

Just a theory based on what Honda is doing...

For years people have critized Acura for not having its own products and identity. The top-end toyota and the bottom-end Lexus overlap (share a platform) but the rest of the Lexus car lineup is unique. The entire Acura and Honda lineups overlap - and even the stying is similar. The RL and Accord look awefully similar. As a result, the average Honda sell price is low-to-mid $20k and the average Acura sell price is low $30k. In comparison, the average toyota sell price is low-to-mid $20k and the average Lexus sell price is over $50k. So, is Acura it's own car line or simply a trim-level above Honda? Given that Acura sales growth is practically 0 and that it sold only 10,000 RL's in 2007 (whereas the GS, e-class, 5 series, M34/45 and even Cadillac STS sold 30,000-50,000 units each) Honda is probably reassessing Acura.

They are taking a page out of Cadillac's book and making a clean break - fewer shared platforms, exclusive drivetrains and clearly differentiated styling. Whether you like or hate the Cadillac Art & Science styling, you certainly can't mistake it for a chevy. Acura is going for its own design - hence the fact that a completely new and separate design studio is doing the work. The new "Advanced" design theme - again whether you like it or hate it - can never be mistaken for a Honda.

The NSX is a Honda - has Honda design themes. So a second gen NSX would also look like a Honda. That's why the ASCC designers (in the TOV interview) called the car the NSX "successor" and clearly said that it was not the next generation NSX. If the HSC where it be revived, my guess is that it would be sold as a Honda in the US and WW.

Based on the design of the Advance Sedan and the Advanced Sports Car, I think Acura is going the way of Mercedes - beautifully (in the eye of the beholder) styled cars with powerful drivetrains. And while M/B has cars that put out 400, 500 and even 600 hp (stock), I doubt that anyone cross-shops a Ferrari F430 and an SL63 - two totally different cars.

Again, just my theory of what the HSC won't be coming to market...

 

[NUK3M]

Acura can keep their American concept and the rest of their home designed crap. (07' MDX anyone?)

its starting to become quite obvious the design direction they are heading is just plain hideous (get rid of the dude with the pony tail)

I just want Honda to give us the HSC under the HONDA badge - add a few ponies and a nip'n tuck.

Screw the Acura brand.

 

[BladesNSX]

Acura can keep their American concept and the rest of their home designed crap. (07' MDX anyone?)

its starting to become quite obvious the design direction they are heading is just plain hideous (get rid of the dude with the pony tail)

I just want Honda to give us the HSC under the HONDA badge - add a few ponies and a nip'n tuck.

Screw the Acura brand.

Co-sign

I will hold out for an HSC.......Has anyone seen the Spoon Concept Art for the HSC.....Absolutely gorgeous

 

[6spdterror]

Co-sign

I will hold out for an HSC.......Has anyone seen the Spoon Concept Art for the HSC.....Absolutely gorgeous

You mean this?

 

[Ski_Banker]

The next generation NSX will not happen. Not like ours. Not even close.

Technology is too easily copied, and overall competition is too great. Honda DID learn that. They've been wrestling with the problem for 10 years, and the ASC is their white flag.

NSX supercar reliability -- Did Ferrari get its act together? Yes. Porsche? Yes. Competition.

Performance/technology -- Is VTEC in every high end car now? Yes (copied). Has aluminum production been mainstreamed for high end cars? Yes.

Of course, you might think "Well Honda will just come out with the next technology" which is quite possible. However, what they've learned is that their R&D dollars to sell a few hundred NSXs per year are too easily copied by the competition. Computer controlled traction systems are even easier to copy. SH-AWD is just rolleyes: ) sensors and software.

There isn't going to be another Groundbreaking Affordable Supercar NSX. Ever. Competition is just too great now, to do what the original NSX did to the playing field. :frown:

 

[BladesNSX]

You mean this?

Yessir!! That's the ticket right thar:

The next generation NSX will not happen. Not like ours. Not even close.

Technology is too easily copied, and overall competition is too great. Honda DID learn that. They've been wrestling with the problem for 10 years, and the ASC is their white flag.

NSX supercar reliability -- Did Ferrari get its act together? Yes. Porsche? Yes. Competition.

Performance/technology -- Is VTEC in every high end car now? Yes (copied). Has aluminum production been mainstreamed for high end cars? Yes.

Of course, you might think "Well Honda will just come out with the next technology" which is quite possible. However, what they've learned is that their R&D dollars to sell a few hundred NSXs per year are too easily copied by the competition. Computer controlled traction systems are even easier to copy. SH-AWD is just rolleyes: ) sensors and software.

There isn't going to be another Groundbreaking Affordable Supercar NSX. Ever. Competition is just too great now, to do what the original NSX did to the playing field. :frown:

Well, damn.........Crush our dreams why don't you :biggrin:

There's always hope............Right....................anyone?

 

[Silver F16]

I wonder what kind of chaos is going on in Honda headquarters in Japan and how Honda is going to save face with almost unanimously preference for the HSC.

Would Honda still proceed with ASCC after the luke warm welcoming? Even the 4 door NSX, called DN-X (Honda Dual Note), got a warmer welcome than the ASCC. Would Honda resurrect the HSC design?

Several months ago, several press reports indicate there were multiple mules running around in Japan. One was a Front engine and the other was a Mid-engine. Hope this is true and the Mid-engine is still alive.

NSX owners are not alone. Look at the pole results on Vtec.net. They have over 2000 votes and over 80% wants Mid-engine.

 

[sotiri]

The problem with your poll is in its makup up members.
Of course most members here refer a design more in tune with what they already have, and that is part of the problem, it was never a real hot seller.
I like the design of the original NSX, and it was ahead of its time, but it was quickly overlooked.
I believe Honda is going to be looking for a broader market of buyers, and oddly its going to be those who can (and want) to pay $100K for an auto that has something that mass production autos dont have.
That is effectively filtering out a wide swath of current NSX owners, but again since its a small segment to begin with, its becoming apparent that Honda has done some mkt demographic homework.
Of course the current incarnation of the DAS isnt the mass production die, but its close (IMO).
I think they are on the correct path; they are targeting a different group.
As someone who owns an 06 RL (with the tech package) and grew up on the honda/acura line, and I am in the market for a true AWD sports vehicle, (and I am not alone) and is looking to spend $100+, I think Acura has a clue what the mkt is looking for.
Just my opinion and such.
Flame suit on!

 

[Silver F16]

Keep in mind the poll on vtec.net I referenced is not comprised of NSX members, it is a general Honda/Acura website that comprises of people who absorbs themselves in Honda products.

With that said, if you Honda/Acura demographics want Mid-engine instead of Front engine, where are the buyers of the ASCC coming from?

In this top dollar market, there are 2 types of buyers, ones that are enthusiasts and ones that wear the car like Jewelery. The latter will pursue after establised marquee like BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Merceders. And the enthusiasts wants Mid-engine.

I smell a sales diaster for Honda.

 

[sotiri]

'comprises of people who absorbs themselves in Honda products. '

And that does not grow the mkt share;
At the risk of losing existing honda owners, they are trying to gain new non-honda owners.
That is the risk every car company assumes.
Your reply and stance is, they can move on to a marqee manufacturers like BMW etc;
That is not what made Honda grow and establish its name.

 

[satx]

'comprises of people who absorbs themselves in Honda products. '

And that does not grow the mkt share;
At the risk of losing existing honda owners, they are trying to gain new non-honda owners.
That is the risk every car company assumes.
Your reply and stance is, they can move on to a marqee manufacturers like BMW etc;
That is not what made Honda grow and establish its name.

sorry but producing a car that not even your brand loyalists like will NOT produce a winning combination.

 

[Ski_Banker]

With that said, if you Honda/Acura demographics want Mid-engine instead of Front engine, where are the buyers of the ASCC coming from?

In this top dollar market, there are 2 types of buyers, ones that are enthusiasts and ones that wear the car like Jewelery. The latter will pursue after establised marquee like BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Merceders. And the enthusiasts wants Mid-engine.

Well said.

For everyone making the argument "The current mid-engine NSX did not sell well, therefore Honda is going front engine for a broader market" -- ridiculous argument. Unless you can prove that engine placement was why the NSX didn't sell well.

I, for one, think that the exotic mid-engine design is the ONLY thing that kept the car selling for the last 8 years. A front engine NSX would have been ridden out of town along side the 3000GT.

 

[swbatte]

Well said.

For everyone making the argument "The current mid-engine NSX did not sell well, therefore Honda is going front engine for a broader market" -- ridiculous argument. Unless you can prove that engine placement was why the NSX didn't sell well.

I, for one, think that the exotic mid-engine design is the ONLY thing that kept the car selling for the last 8 years. A front engine NSX would have been ridden out of town along side the 3000GT.

Agreed. For a start up car, the original sold fairly well for that point in history. Porsches and F-cars didn't sell near as well in the early 90's as they do now. If the NSX had evolved in 95 it would have built on its customer base. It didn't, so its sales slid and slid. Honda should build on it's pedigree, like Porsche and Ferrari, not abandon it.

 

[whatisreal7]

I'm willing to bet that all this is just buzz before the storm. We've all seen so many designs about the "next-gen NSX" or "NSX successor", that I wouldn't be surprised if it is just Honda's way of throwing things in the market to gauge reaction, and at the end launch a car that may not resemble any of the preceeding concepts.

I also would not be surprised if there are several parallel internal efforts within Honda to design the NSX, generating a kind of healthy internal competition, and finalizing in a design at a future date.

That said, I think the ASCC is wrong, and have to have faith that Honda will know it is a ridiculous idea and just a build a mid/rear engine 400+HP V10. Realistically, the price-tag will probably be in the $120 - $150K range.