Import Questions

[Wolfman101]

Hi all,
first post here, please be kind!!

First things first: I don't have an NSX, though have always loved them. They are absurdly rare here though (Australia)...which just makes it all the more special when you see one!

Anyway:
I represent a vehicle export business. We have been active for nearly a decade, exporting mostly kei-trucks from Japan, though we do have a partner in Oregon to whom we also export GTRs. We are looking at new market segments, and NSXs seem to jump out as an obvious choice. On paper it seems too good to be true:
Average auction price for a decent 90/91 model is around 20k US in Japan, Average asking price seems around 45k in the US?

Obviously only '90 cars can be imported at the moment, but as time goes on, more models will become eligible. Our Oregon partner has already expressed willingness to expand...

Anyway, my question is simply:
Am I missing something? Is there some reason why NSX imports are a bad idea? I just want to get a sense of the demand from the enthusiast community, as well as any tips or advice you might have.

Cheers!

 

[BETRNSX]

Importing a Japanese model to the US? They are RHD which is a turnoff.

 

[Wolfman101]

Importing a Japanese model to the US? They are RHD which is a turnoff.

Thanks for the input.

So that's generally regarded as undesirable? I'm pretty sure that it's not actually prohibited though?

- - - Updated - - -

To clarify:
We'd be sourcing the cars there, purchasing, making any required modifications/maintenance in our workshop, then sending the cars to our US partner, who would advertise the cars for sale. Even selling the cars for 5-10k less than a domestic model, the margin would make it a viable business, assuming the interest is there for immaculate, low kms 90/91 models for around 30k.

 

[JW]

Importing a Japanese model to the US? They are RHD which is a turnoff.

I am not quite sure but I am think that it was talked about in Prime that it was harder to bring a lot of the Japanese cars into the States, but up here in Canada there are plenty of rhd supras , gtr's, soarer's and some that I don't even know the names as they are branded with a different name than car that were built for this market.

Joe

91 NSX Red​/Black

 

[Wolfman101]

Well until recently it's been impossible, as there is a 25 year old limit. Now 1990 cars are legal to import, and 1991 models will be shortly...

 

[Voodoo08]

correct they have just now been legal to import. I believe the market would do very well around the 30k price point. Most of the RHD jdm cars sell pretty quickly once the ground work has been done to get the car legally registered. There are no problems on importing or registering a car once the 25 year rule has been passed.

 

[Wolfman101]

Thanks for that! Keen to hear opinions from as many as possible. As I said, we'd have a US contact point/distributor, so there wouldn't be any authenticity worries. If enough people think it's a decent idea, we'll pick up a couple in the next month and use them as test cases.
I take it manuals are more desirable?

 

[tChan]

As unique has having a RHD here in the US, it is actually very impractical when you end up driving one. Try making a left hand turn at an uncontrolled intersection with a car going the opposite direction is also trying to make a left. You have no visibility! Tried it in a R32. Scary as sh*t! Plus, ever going to a drive thru? Hope you've got long arms. I know drive thru's are minor thing, but it's something. Although, I imagine parallel parking on the right side might be a whole lot easier?

 

[Wolfman101]

Yep, there are definitely drawbacks. Just a matter of whether or not they outweigh the significant savings for buyers.

 

[Aaron94T]

Importing a Japanese model to the US? They are RHD which is a turnoff.

I think quite the opposite as we have been able to get LHD NSX's for 25 years. This is something different, true JDM. I for one would be interested, feel free to contact me once it gets closer to reality.

 

[Wolfman101]

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

 

[TomCat]

Just my opinion...RHD cars are rare, unique and quirky (in LHD world). But, they are JDM and that seems to have its own market/attraction! In general, I don't think imported 25 year old NSXs are going to be used to go to the drive-through.
I would think a rare, enthusiast market would snatch these up (at least until more importers start taking advantage of the 25 year rule).

I also think that "offering" a converted (to LHD) model might be an option but I think JDM has a strong following here.

 

[95nsxtc]

Just my opinion...RHD cars are rare, unique and quirky (in LHD world). But, they are JDM and that seems to have its own market/attraction! In general, I don't think imported 25 year old NSXs are going to be used to go to the drive-through.
I would think a rare, enthusiast market would snatch these up (at least until more importers start taking advantage of the 25 year rule).

I also think that "offering" a converted (to LHD) model might be an option but I think JDM has a strong following here.

+1 to exactly what he said

 

[TomCat]

One more thing...I think part of the attraction is fueled by "forbidden fruit"...like importing GTRs, etc...
Once this normalizes they are used NSXs with quirks.
I understand that the headlights are "skewed" the wrong way and would need to be corrected or they interfere with oncoming traffic.

 

[texmorales]

I think there would be a strong market. Obviously we have all noticed the huge increase in JDM popularity here in the states. But also consider, unlike the other JDM imports that are all the rage lately, bringing in JDM NSXs would not "flood" the US market. These are still seriously rare at only 18k examples worldwide.

I meet lots of people near my age, 34, at car shows that the NSX was their childhood dream car too. Unfortunately, they financially couldn't pull the trigger on an NSX in good condition and definitely not now with what seems like a $8-10k price jump across the board. Being able to offer a lower priced entry point to NSX ownership would fit a market that is definitely out there. RHD be damned they can finally get their dream car.

Not to mention many of us search for that right NSX for weeks, months or even years! Imagine being able to import what you want in a much shorter timeframe. This seriously might out weight the RHD. For the people that daily, I think it would be a no go, but for those that just weekend it not such a deal breaker. I know there have been a thread or two already here on prime about someone doing a RHD/LHD conversion. Probably would be a good idea to read those and get a feel for the work involved if that's something your going to offer.

Oh, and the auto's definitely sell for less here than the manuals. So if you are tying to test your margins, you may want to stick to manuals for your first trial run. Gives you a little more leeway and safety net to try this out.

Anyways, I am all for more NSXs which hopefully leads to continued support from the vendor community.

 

[Old Guy]

I don't know where your research suggesting an average asking price of $45, 000 (presumably US $) is coming from. It looks like the Haggerty average valuation for 1991 vehicles. As an owner, I might love to use the Haggerty valuation in an insurance dispute; however, I am hard pressed to believe that they represent a realistic average settling price. As an example, I purchased my car (model year 2000) in early 2011. Its a 'not quite' condition 2 car. Haggerty's valuation in 2011 April was between $57k (condition 3) and $65 k (condition 2) for a model year 2000 6 speed. The settling price was around $43k in Canada and based upon the market enquiries I had made I could have picked the car up for less in the US at the time. Based upon my 2011 experience, I suggest that the Haggerty valuations might be tracking about 25% to 35% above typical settling prices. As a matter of interest I did check the Japanese market in 2011 (my friend's son works in Japan, speaks Japanese, is a car guy and did a little research for me). JDM prices for the NSX were way above the North American market prices at the time.

If the price spread for an older NSX was as large as you think it is, I think you would have been beaten to the punch by the various Canadian enterprises that specialize in importing JDM vehicles into Canada (and I suspect there must be similar specialists in the US). The import restriction in Canada for non North American vehicles is only 15 years, so they have been actively importing much newer JDM market vehicles than are available in the US. Not that I have been looking; but, I have never seen a JDM NSX in Canada. Lots of other stuff; but, not an NSX. In 2011 when I was doing my vehicle search, I contacted a couple of specialist importers. They didn't have an NSX available or lined up and had never brought one into Canada; but, were willing to do a search for one if I was serious.

 

[TomCat]

Haggerty 1991 NSX condition 2 shows $30,900 on the chart I just looked up for Jan 2011 purchase and $43,200 Sept 2015

 

[Old Guy]

Haggerty 1991 NSX condition 2 shows $30,900 on the chart I just looked up for Jan 2011 purchase and $43,200 Sept 2015

Ak! Mia culpa!

The Haggerty site must have detected my location and was reporting values in Cdn $ rather than US$. Going back to the guide (making sure to get the US $ this time), the April 2011 valuation for my 2000 shows $43 K for condition 3 and $49 k for condition 2. Still high by my experience (in 2011 the currencies were close to par); but, within reason. That said, having corrected the currency, Hagerty's current average valuation for a 1991 model is roughly $34k USD (the original poster was referencing average prices). That puts a significant squeeze on the margin if the average cost in Japan is $20 K USD.

I still stick with my observation that if the huge margins existed, the Canadian specialty importers would have been doing trade in JDM NSXs already since the 1991 model NSXs have been exempt in Canada since 2006.

 

[JD Cross]

I still stick with my observation that if the huge margins existed, the Canadian specialty importers would have been doing trade in JDM NSXs already since the 1991 model NSXs have been exempt in Canada since 2006.

I'm with Old Guy on this.
Have not seen a RHD NSX in Canada yet.

Part of the reason, based on my cursory research, is price levels in Japan have always been similar or higher than in North America.
I don't believe you can purchase a decent NSX in Japan for $20K

 

[Wolfman101]

I'm with Old Guy on this.
Have not seen a RHD NSX in Canada yet.

Part of the reason, based on my cursory research, is price levels in Japan have always been similar or higher than in North America.
I don't believe you can purchase a decent NSX in Japan for $20K

Bear in mind, we are buying direct from the auctions, not privately/dealers.
Last 10 '91 NSX auction (sold) prices (USD):

17087
17985
31048
27319
18813
14497
15587
23196
27235
15084

<colgroup><col></colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>

Average: 20785
First 10 '91 cars I found for sale on carsales.com/autotrader:

44,000
38671
64980
97500
32786
49995
75000
54500
38950
38671 Average: 53505

<colgroup><col></colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>

 

[quasi]

One for sale!!! RHD!
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...sted/1110124603?mobile=false&siteLocale=en_CA

 

[Mr. Fuji]

Agreed on prices, I’ve spent a fair amount of time on Japanese auction sites this year and not seen any “bargain” NSXs once forex, transportation, and domestication costs are considered in the equation- never mind trying to cover business expenses and make a profit.

Also, my "family" vehicle is a JDM 1994 Mitsubishi Delica PF6W that was imported to Canada earlier this year, so I have some insights on RHD vs. LHD:

1. The RHD took all of a few days to get used to …even for my wife who was very skeptical at first. Now it's no big deal, except to passersby who often look confused why I am on the wrong side of the van.
2. With a RHD NSX being quite low compared to other vehicles, the left-turns would be dicey at times and my guess is there would be a learning curve for left-handed shifting as well. The Delica is a very tall vehicle, so visibility is good and left turns are usually pretty easy to perform.
3. Obviously JDM headlights are aimed for RHD-oriented roads, and conversion of the Delica headlights to DOT compliance cost ~$900 in parts. I can't imagine what this would cost on an NSX but I'm guessing it would be significantly higher- plus all the other items that may be required to domesticate a JDM NSX would be quite high. NSX tax anyone?

Unlike NSXs, the Delica has never been sold in North America and many mechanics will not even touch them, even though an engine is an engine is an engine. Luckily we have some excellent resources for NSX knowledge & repairs so this would not be an issue for those importing a JDM NSX.

That said… the real Holy Grail would be importing an NSX-R, that would be awesome.

 

[JD Cross]

Bear in mind, we are buying direct from the auctions, not privately/dealers.
Last 10 '91 NSX auction (sold) prices (USD):

17087
17985
31048
27319
18813
14497
15587
23196
27235
15084

<colgroup><col></colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>

Average: 20785
First 10 '91 cars I found for sale on carsales.com/autotrader:

44,000
38671
64980
97500
32786
49995
75000
54500
38950
38671 Average: 53505

<colgroup><col></colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>

There's three in the high 14's low 15's
Do you have any details on these cars.?

 

[Wolfman101]

Yes, I can see their full auction sheets. They have all been sold in the last few months. The 14497 had 165k KMs, the 15587 had 142K KMs, 15084 was 69K Kms. All those 3 were AT though. There doesn't seem to be much price difference in AT/M in japan...both the ones in the 17s are manual, mid KMs.

Thanks for the input so far guys! Seems there's some mixed opinions.

Shipping costs for us would be 1-2k per car (we already ship scores of vehicles a month), and we can do any required conversion at one of our workshops in Japan (headlights, etc).

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, that's a very optimistic price that RHD is selling for. Especially as it's auto, mid KMs and is a '91 (can't be registered yet)...

 

[Mr. Fuji]

Hi Wolfman- there is no disrespect intended here- I had looked at doing something similar and decided it wasn't for me. I'm just one guy and the full cost of importing worked out to be about the same for me, but with added risks presented by the auction process.

You are an expert so I respect your opinion! If you can make this work then more power to you... you may even open up a new source of cars for those NSX enthusiasts who want the "real" JDM experience.

Fuji