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Jonesy's NSX Build Thread

Joined
15 September 2011
Messages
398
Location
Houston
So I had been thinking about setting up a build thread for a while. I just wanted to wait until I was closer to my build being done first. The shop, IDB Racing, has been in the process of moving to their new shop slowly over the last couple of months. I wanted to wait until the engine that I am having built by Wil the shop owner finish with the move and now that the shop move is over the project is back on and I am pretty pumped with the progress. IDB Racing has been working on NSXs for years now with everything from routine maintenance to full on builds so I was more than happy to work with Wil to have it all done by him. Plus his eye for quality over “just good enough” is what attracted me to the shop in the first place.
From the beginning I always knew I wanted a NSX as it was a car that I could grow with and not feel the need to replace again. So the quest was on and it eventually led me to Orlando one weekend to go pick her up.

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1992 Berlina Black with white interior NSX. 84,000 on the tach and a serious ring binder of all maintenance since mile 1. The car has been pretty well kept over the years, and just to show how reliable it was I drove it back from Orlando. As soon as I got back to Houston I got the routine maintenance completed on it. So the timing belt, timing cover, water pump, cleaned and regreased the driver/passenger window rails, plugs, cam seals, valve cover gasket set, upgraded LMAs to springs over piston, valve adjustment, and cleared texas inspection.
Engine Maintenance 2 by Jones
Engine Maintenance by Jones
Once that was taken care I had the car sent off to the dyno to get a baseline done to it before the fun engine mods were on. This was the uncorrected dyno numbers in stock form on mustang dyno. Pretty typical of what you see in these cars.
14381965939_c00c94856c_o by Jones
Right after this I had a someone back into the car’s mirror or bump into it with their body. I’m not sure either way but one of my mirrors was completely broken so I bought some new ones to fix the issue.
Spoon Mirrors by Jones
Spoon Mirrors 2 by Jones
Spoon Mirrors 3 by Jones
After the mirrors were done it was time to bring the car in to IDB Racing again and begin the build process. Full disclosure I was just going to do the ECU standalone and that was going to be that, but I don’t know how to leave well enough alone. Before I knew it was down a hell of a rabbit hole and really glad Wil was there to help me get it to where it is now.
First thing I wanted to do was get the injectors ready for more power. Through working with a friend who owns an injector company I had a custom set of DPI Injectors(now called Evolved Injection) built for the NSX. I love the quality of these injectors and Wil loved them so much all the shop cars/custom builds run them as well.
DPI Injectors by Jones
DPI Injectors 3 by Jones
DPI Injectors 1 by Jones
DPI Injectors 2 by Jones
I also picked up a Rotrex kit from Ted at Grams for a good deal and decided that was the route I was looking to go down. I wanted the power to be consistent and linear. I feel this is one of the ways to get the v6 to feel like a v8 with any lag or whine. So in came the C38-91 rotrex kit with a 80mm(?) pulley? I forgot the size of the pulley off the top of my head, but there is a formula you fill out to get the proper pulley size and stay within the 5-10% overspin range you want to be. This pulley should do rather nicely and there are some tricks to tuning to help ensure the rotrex isn’t harmed when close to the rev limiter.
Rotrex kit by Jones
After the rotrex came in I talked to [MENTION=4799]DDozier[/MENTION] on her about his intercooler setup and bought one back when he had his group buy run of them. There were some massaging issues with the welding of the plates that needed to happen but Wil got it squared away nicely.
Intercooler 1 by Jones
Intercooler by Jones
I lost some of my older pictures when I traded in my phone for a new one so no internal welded images, but it looked great and came out exactly how we wanted it to. After that was completed I ordered some parts for the front of the NSX to help with cooling. Heat exchanger, Jabsco water pump, fuel filter, SPAL fan for the rotrex oil cooler, tial recirc, ATI super damper, and some other odd parts to help complete the front cooling system.
Jabsco pump by Jones
Heat exchanger and recirc by Jones
fuel filter and rotrex oil cooler by Jones
ati super damper by Jones
After this my standalone came in with a custom made wire harness.
proefi 3 by Jones
proefi 2 by Jones
proefi 1 by Jones
Once the parts were in the shop built a custom bracket for the rotrex and everything was mocked up for fitment clearances.
Inkednsx rotrex shot_LI by Jones
Everything on the engine side was mocked up and wired properly. Then I talked to Wil about thinking I needed to add some short gears into the transmission. One thing turned to another and before I knew it I bought short gears, an OS Giken twin plate, ATS LSD, ATS final gear, and miscellaneous parts to completely rebuild/replace every part in the 5 speed.
ATS LSD by Jones
dali billet oil pump gear and flat iron short gears by Jones
11046783_10153446600133893_1205642787486848339_n by Jones
While the transmission was being built I picked up a diffuser that was physically in great condition, but superficially it was rough. Especially on the wings of the Taitec diffuser. Wil has a good relationship with a shop called Apex Auto Works and they took the multiple-layered painted diffuser and completely refreshed it back to new. They also added extra layers of clear in some specific locations that rocks are known to hit off of to help protect it. Notice how they didn’t remove the paint and add a black paint mixed clear coat to cover up the weave like other shops do.
Taitec Diffuser by Jones
Apex Auto Works Diffuser Before by Jones
Apex Auto Works Diffuser Before 2 by Jones
Apex Auto Works Diffuser Before 1 by Jones
Apex Auto Works Diffuser After 1 by Jones
Apex Auto Works Diffuser After 2 by Jones
Apex Auto Works Diffuser After by Jones
While the transmission was already out I figured why don’t we just refresh the engine some. A refresh of the engine turned into pulling the motor out and realizing that the oem pistons were not in good condition and it looked unsafe to boost on these original pistons.
IMG_5637_1494947074360 by Jones
IMG_5636_1494947074374 by Jones
IMG_5635_1494947074377 by Jones
IMG_5634_1494947074387 by Jones
IMG_5633_1494947074392 by Jones
IMG_5632_1494947074396 by Jones
IMG_5631_1494947074398 by Jones
Sooooooo next the shop broke the engine completely down, pulled out the pistons, rods, etc and the heads went off to the local head shop to get refreshed and ported. While that was going on I ordered some new pistons and rods. Once they came back Wil sent the pistons off to get two different coatings on them which came out fantastic.
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
The heads came back from the machine shop cleaned up and refreshed with a PnP.
Nsx parts by Jones
After that the comptech headers came back in from getting a cerakote coating applied to them adfter being cleaned up.
Nsx parts by Jones
New coils were needed and Wil suggested Audi R8 GT coils. He has added these coils on a few 2JZs making well over 1000whp so they should be more than powerful enough for my car.
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
With the pistons back it was a few weeks before the block came back from the machine shop. We had the block bored out .5mm, resurfaced like the heads, cleaned up, and had the crank massaged. Also bought some new headgaskets and all new ARP everything. Just glad to see everything back again and have the assembly start to take form.
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Nsx parts by Jones
Currently the tolerances were checked one last time and Wil said he preferred for the crank to go back to the machine shop one last time to make everything perfect before final assembly. So I’m just waiting on the machine shop to drop the crank off and then it is time to reinstall everything.
I’ll keep better updates on the progress as they appear in this thread and for any pictures that were missed here is a running inventory of parts on the car currently.
Interior
Cleaned and regreased the driver/passenger window rails
Jensen Double Din
Spoon Sports mirrors
OEM fender signal lights
02'+ rear taillights
SOS Zanardi short shifter stalk
Cedar Ridge short shifter
NSX-R shifter boot
LED Interior Bulbs
Feel's Titanium Shift Knob
OEM rubber door seals
Exterior
SmartTenna
Dali Racing Brake Deflectors
Taitec Rear Diffuser
Engine
Comptech Headers with ceramic cerakote gold coating
Pride V1 Exhaust
Ac pulley
Ac belt
Timing Belt
Timing Cover
Timing tensioner pulley
Water Pump
NGK plugs
cam seal
valve cover gasket set
upgraded LMAs to springs over piston
valve adjustment
ProEFI 128 ECU
ProEFI OBD1 Custom NSX hand-built Harness
ProEFI 5 bar map
ProEFI IAT
Fuel pressure sender
ProEFI Dual widebands
ProEFI Flex fuel sensor
Fuelab 10 micron fuel filter
Jabsco 29 gpm water pump
CXRacing 13 row oil cooler
FrozenBoost heat exchanger
Spal 4" fan for oil cooler
Gram's Rotrex C38-91 with black housing
95mm Rotrex pulley
Tial QRJ recirc 38mm
Cedar Ridge oil pan baffle
4 port Mac Solenoid
Bell Intercooler 'hidden' core (rated at 600 crank hp)
Magnuson Supercharger reservoir
OS Giken STR2C Clutch and Flywheel
ATS Carbon LSD
JDM NSX Type R 5 speed 2,3, and 4 short gears
ATS 4.235 Final drive
NSX Type R oil drive gear
NSX Type R countershaft
ARP Custom head studs
MLS metal head gaskets
Dali racing billet oil pump gear
Complete 5 speed transmission OEM rebuild
Audi R8 V10 GT coil packs and connectors
ARP Rod bolts
reconditioned OEM engine mounts with Devcon 'Flexane 94
ATI Super Damper
Hot tanked and cleaned short block
CP Pistons 9.0:1
Carillo rods
ARP main bolts
Heads (ported and polished, surfaced, valve job, new valve seals, new guides, gasket matched to 90.5mm)
Suspension
BC Coilovers - BR Type
NSX-R Front Sway Bar
Cedar Ridge compliance clamps
Wheels and Brakes
Earls Stainless Steel brake lines
Carbotech XP8 Brake Pads
ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid
Replacement of the two rear CV Boots

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Awesome build. Subscribed.
 
Any idea if the shop that built your Rotrex bracket will produce any additional brackets?

Build looks killer so far, I look forward to seeing the results!
 
Any idea if the shop that built your Rotrex bracket will produce any additional brackets?

Build looks killer so far, I look forward to seeing the results!

Thanks man. Their new shop has more space and an area specifically for custom machining internally so Wil is revising the bracket based off of the latest mockup. He built the bracket from scratch so the design and sketches are his. You can always contact the shop through their website or facebook for any inquiries.

I don't want my build thread to get shut down so I can't talk or discuss any selling of products without him being a vendor.
 
Cool. What's going on with crank tolerances? Does he suspect it wasn't balanced correctly with the new rods and pistons? There's not really anything else to machine on the crank. Maybe he wants the clearances remeasured for the rod bearings. I ran into honda OEM rod bearing problems with my build too.

I had my crank magnafluxed, deburred, balanced and thoroughly cleaned, but I didn't have to do anything else.

Hope its a quick turnaround!
 
Another couple of items that are free to do while you have the engine still apart...

You have strong pistons and rods now, so the next weak link is the main caps. All of the broken OEM main caps on relatively high-hp NSX's (450 WHP+) are along the oil hole bored down the middle. This makes sense because that area has the most stress and least material. You can reduce the stress risers and propensity to crack by radiusing the edges on the oil holes. Just take away as little material as possible.

Same thing with the crank. I've seen a few broken cranks, and it's the same thing. The machined edges on our cranks are sharp enough to easily cut the fingers.

While you have your oil pump case open to replace the gear (and the oil cooler pedestal for that matter), you can do some light machining to smooth the passageways. Consider a new oil pump bypass spring, and check plunger operation.

Also, check the oil pickup sump screen and clean if necessary. I've seen in some neglected NSX's that they can be partially clogged.

One last thing - I really think Timeserting the block for your head studs is the right thing to do with any engine rebuild. There have been too many documented cases of the threads pulling out. Mostly on C32's to be fair, but there have been enough C30's that I still think it is cheap insurance on a boosted engine.
 
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Cool. What's going on with crank tolerances? Does he suspect it wasn't balanced correctly with the new rods and pistons? There's not really anything else to machine on the crank. Maybe he wants the clearances remeasured for the rod bearings. I ran into honda OEM rod bearing problems with my build too.

I had my crank magnafluxed, deburred, balanced and thoroughly cleaned, but I didn't have to do anything else.

Hope its a quick turnaround!

Everything has already been balanced but he wants to recheck the tolerances for the rod bearings. I hope it is a quick turnaround also. Believe me!

Another couple of items that are free to do while you have the engine still apart...

You have strong pistons and rods now, so the next weak link is the main caps. All of the broken OEM main caps on relatively high-hp NSX's (450 WHP+) are along the oil hole bored down the middle. This makes sense because that area has the most stress and least material. You can reduce the stress risers and propensity to crack by radiusing the edges on the oil holes. Just take away as little material as possible.

Same thing with the crank. I've seen a few broken cranks, and it's the same thing. The machined edges on our cranks are sharp enough to easily cut the fingers.

While you have your oil pump case open to replace the gear (and the oil cooler pedestal for that matter), you can do some light machining to smooth the passageways. Consider a new oil pump bypass spring, and check plunger operation.

Also, check the oil pickup sump screen and clean if necessary. I've seen in some neglected NSX's that they can be partially clogged.

One last thing - I really think Timeserting the block for your head studs is the right thing to do with any engine rebuild. There have been too many documented cases of the threads pulling out. Mostly on C32's to be fair, but there have been enough C30's that I still think it is cheap insurance on a boosted engine.

Everything has already been done except for the timeserts actually. Since the goal is no more than 12psi max at 350wtq and XXX whp I am pretty confident we are below what we will need to be to threaten lifting the head. It would be added insurance but the timeserts doesn't seem that necessary to me. If he thinks it is necessary then I will do it though. I'll ask him about it. As it we are kind of overkill for the minimal power and boost we are running, but better safe than sorry.

I should have an update by Sunday I believe.
 
What gas do you plan on running and what power levels do you reasonably expect this setup to put out?
 
Everything has already been done except for the timeserts actually. Since the goal is no more than 12psi max at 350wtq and XXX whp I am pretty confident we are below what we will need to be to threaten lifting the head. It would be added insurance but the timeserts doesn't seem that necessary to me. If he thinks it is necessary then I will do it though. I'll ask him about it. As it we are kind of overkill for the minimal power and boost we are running, but better safe than sorry.

I should have an update by Sunday I believe.

I understand. With the aftermarket rods I thought you may be shooting for more torque. Regardless, if you haven't radiused the main cap edges, I highly suggest you do that. It shouldn't cost you anything but your time.
 
What gas do you plan on running and what power levels do you reasonably expect this setup to put out?

Gas will be either 93 or e85. The car is running a flex fuel sensor so it just depends on what I want to run. Probably 93 on the streets and true e85 on the track. I expect the rotrex to have numbers around 350tq/420whp, but it is a guess. 350tq with short gears will be plenty enough to play with at COTA for quite a while.

I understand. With the aftermarket rods I thought you may be shooting for more torque. Regardless, if you haven't radiused the main cap edges, I highly suggest you do that. It shouldn't cost you anything but your time.

I'm using the aftermarket rods because I just wanted extra cushion in case I wanted to boost a little more in the future, but I don't see that happening. Agree with radiusing the main caps though and cleaning up the oil passages.

Finally you started a build! Awesome stuff.

Tell us more about the ATS diff and what ratio final drive? Why didn't you use the ATS dual clutch?

I was going to use an ATS clutch and LSD but no one had any experience with them outside of Japan.

Appreciate it Ryu. So the ATS diff I have is the 1.5 way carbon LSD. The code is CHMB10910. CHMA10910 is their 2 way carbon LSD. The new carbon LSD for NSX has an initial torque of about 72.5 ft/lb. When the initial torque goes down to 36 ft/lb you may want to adjust it by adding a shim, changing a coned spring to a new one, or by doing overhaul. The final drive that comes with it is 4.23:1. The US NA1 NSX 5 speed needs a type R counter shaft 23220-PR8-J00 x1 and stock oil pump shaft 21173-PR8-J00 to run this lsd. Motul is usually the lsd gear oil used/recommended but Amsoil can also be used. I have a box of Amsoil so I am going to test it out and after two flushes try Motul to see what the delta is, if any. Carbon LSD overhaul kit to rebuild with fresh parts is part number R7A13-70 (4 carbon discs, 4 metal discs, coned springs, and washers). Around $500 currently including shipping from the US.

The shop is an ATS dealer so I wish I had known because I would have got you in touch with Wil to at least get your questions answered.

The reason I didn't use the ATS dual clutch is because I bought the OS Giken clutch first. After I bought the clutch I was having issues with getting their LSD and was steered towards the ATS LSD. It is already installed along with the rest of the transmission parts. I hear it is pretty quiet overall. The shop has put the LSD in a few cars and they all have had positive feedback at the track and on the street.
 
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I assumed it was machined from the clutch side of the crank, but good point! Maybe that's why it went back to the machine shop at the last minute. Doh!:biggrin:
 
I cant see mallory(tunsgten) metal on your grank ?

Wil said he would like to answer this question himself:

"With regard to the crank machining, I always try to get all of the journal OD's the same, so that theyll all use the same bearing sizes, and I like to have the same oil clearance evenly across all of the journals and bearing surfaces, rather than just slapping in bearings that are within the acceptable clearance range. Also, when we have the bearings coated, despite it being super duper micro thin, it does still add material, and sometimes we have to nip off a few thou to keep everything just right. Also, since we went with ARP main studs, the mains had to be bored/honed, and that required some minor massaging on the mains as well. We always radius galleys/passages/holes/whatever you want to call 'em, as well, and we eliminate any sharp edges anywhere that don't need to be there on ANYTHING throughout the engine. Oil pump has been gone through and is all good, as has the pickup. Pretty much everything on this entire engine has been stripped and checked and cleaned and addressed as needed. I haven't ever seen a C30 pull studs or lift heads, I really wouldn't worry about it especially at the boost levels that the Rotrex will generate. As far as mallory on the crank, you're correct, you don't see mallory on it...mallory would only be used if it needs it. Mallory is somewhat rare because it's generally only used whenever a new rotating assembly is a lot heavier to compensate in the adjacent counterweights. Most neutral balanced cranks never need mallory, because they get balanced without the bobweight affecting it."
 
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I can’t wait to see this build completed. Very interested in the DD intercooler setup and the Rotex.
 
On the note of timeserting the block. I would have done that mod over the billet oil pump gear. But I’m nobody when it comes to motor builds. I was told it was a waste for the power goal in mind such was billet main caps for 450 hp and under.
 
Wil said he would like to answer this question himself:

"With regard to the crank machining, I always try to get all of the journal OD's the same, so that theyll all use the same bearing sizes, and I like to have the same oil clearance evenly across all of the journals and bearing surfaces, rather than just slapping in bearings that are within the acceptable clearance range. Also, when we have the bearings coated, despite it being super duper micro thin, it does still add material, and sometimes we have to nip off a few thou to keep everything just right. Also, since we went with ARP main studs, the mains had to be bored/honed, and that required some minor massaging on the mains as well. We always radius galleys/passages/holes/whatever you want to call 'em, as well, and we eliminate any sharp edges anywhere that don't need to be there on ANYTHING throughout the engine. Oil pump has been gone through and is all good, as has the pickup. Pretty much everything on this entire engine has been stripped and checked and cleaned and addressed as needed. I haven't ever seen a C30 pull studs or lift heads, I really wouldn't worry about it especially at the boost levels that the Rotrex will generate. As far as mallory on the crank, you're correct, you don't see mallory on it...mallory would only be used if it needs it. Mallory is somewhat rare because it's generally only used whenever a new rotating assembly is a lot heavier to compensate in the adjacent counterweights. Most neutral balanced cranks never need mallory, because they get balanced without the bobweight affecting it."

CP piston is 8 g ligther than OEM .But Carillo rod is 101 grams heavier than OEM Titanum rod . So you need to add some weigt somewhere.
 
Wil is gonna send the crank back out to be double checked again to make sure it is balanced. He also said the machine shop's crank balancing machine is pretty new though. He's never had a crank come back from being balanced with mallory on it. Wil's currently remeasuring the pistons and rod weights so that everything is freshly measured to make 100% sure on everything.





Here are pictures of the machine shop's crank balancer with Wil's m3 race car crankshaft on it.
27707854_10155517824468893_1800688189_o by Jones
27746699_10155517824488893_217770020_o by Jones
 
I'll get pictures of the crank on the balancer with the digital readout so if it is balanced and doesn't need mallory, we will prove it.
 
Balancing is almost more an art than science. Different engine builders do it different ways because there is no scientific correct way. Also, some engines work best with an overbalance or underbalance. There's lots of good info on the internet you can read more on if interested.

The problem with the NSX is its a 90 degree v6 that requires significantly splayed journals to run smoothly. Compare our crank with the m3 crank in the picture. Which one looks simpler (and therefore "stronger" all other things being equal)?

Because these are expensive engines, most nsx owners are afraid to push the boundaries. Typically, if you're just replacing pistons, the weight and dimensional differences have been shown through experience to not need any crank balancing to match. Those that have gone to heavier beafier rods have typically added tungsten in the crank to compensate. One person even knife edged the crank counterweights and had to add tungsten.

Whatever our thoughts are in the peanut gallery, it at least looks like you have a builder that is paying attention and taking time to answer questions. That seems to be rare these days. Good luck with the rest of the build!
 
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