Keep breaking studs. Help???

[CL65 Captain]

Ok, last month I was at the track with my new Enkei RPF01s and Toyo R888s and broke two studs, one on each rear wheel.

Well, I replaced them with OEM studs (I was running the longer H&R studs with my 15mm spacers with the stock wheels).

So, this weekend I go up to Mid Ohio and broke another one on the rear wheel. Now, being conscious of over tightening I made sure that I torqued them to exactly 80lb/ft. I got rid of the plastic centering rings and am using the Dali aluminum hubcenteric rings for the Enkei. I am also using different lug nuts than I was last time. But I still broke a stud!!!

Well, my next step is to order a set of ARP studs, but I shouldn't be breaking studs. I tracked my OEM wheels with Falken 615s for years and never broke one.

?????

 

[DRIFTER]

Were they the same studs that that you broke and replaced?

I would replace them all. Could be that they were previously over tightened and stretched?

 

[CL65 Captain]

Nope. I was running H&R longer studs. Replaced ALL of them with OEM studs.

 

[fullracehonda]

where you running the spacers when you broke a stud the next time after breaking the two?

 

[CL65 Captain]

no. I broke the two studs at Putnam Park (track) and then replaced all the studs with OEM and put my Enkeis on (no spacers) and went to Mid Ohio and broke one there.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

I used to have the same problem...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109489

 

[CL65 Captain]

ARP it is...

Three choices:

ARP-100-7708 (Corvette - have to drill out to .5") 2.5" perfect length for 15mm spacers for my OEM street and then open lug for the Enkei track wheels, but no going back after drilling.

ARP-100-7710 - Honda stock fittment 1.85" - give up my spacers for OEM wheels

ARP-100-7712 - Honda extra, extra long 2.85" - probably to long to use OEM lug nuts even with 15mm spacers. STMPO, this looks like the ones you are using. Yes? They look awful long. I don't think that with my 15mm and OEM wheel that I could still use the stock lugs. Looks like I would have to use open nuts, which is fine with the track wheels - don't care about looks but don't want for street.

 

[Ponyboy]

Looks like the ARP Honda longs are you best solution...not the ideal...but the best option you've got.

 

[dquarasr2]

Looks like the ARP Honda longs are you best solution...not the ideal...but the best option you've got.

Don't know if this is a placebo fix or not:

• 
  When removing the wheels, I alway break the lugs loose or tighten them only after I've jacked the car up enough to take most of the weight off the wheel, but not enough to have the wheel spin when I apply torque.

• 
  I use a smidgen of anti-seize compound on each of the studs.

Since doing this I have not broken a stud on either my Miata or NSX, and I change wheels often considering maintenance and track events.

Again, it might be a placebo effect, but it makes me feel better. And as we know, it's all about making ME feel better.

 

[nsxtasy]

I don't know why this is happening; sorry.

However, just as a point of information (as it sounds like you're going back and forth between sets of wheels)... If you're using Honda/Acura (NOT aftermarket) wheels with extended studs, and you're looking for open-ended lug nuts with the ball-shaped seat that the Honda/Acura wheels need, you can get them from your local Honda (not Acura) car dealer; ask for part number 90381-SV1-901.

 

[Zishan]

Ironic, I broke my an OEM stud recently as well. I installed factory size ARP studs, which are suppose to be a lot stronger.

 

[Ponyboy]

Just bought a set of ARP Honda regulars from Summit for $17.95 at Summit.

Looking for the Prime DIY thread about it now. IIRC, there's was some contention on having to remove the entire hub or not.

 

[Zishan]

FYI, I didn't not remove the hub(rear). The studs did take some persuading however....i.e. hammer time. :biggrin:

 

[jorligan]

I just replaced my studs for the second time. The first time with the ARP Honda fitment because I snapped multiple stock studs (Overtorqued by someone, not me!). I then got new wheels which required spacers as the wheel just touched my brake calipers. Added 5 mm spacers but definitely the studs were then too short. I went with the long ARP studs and cut off the tips. Did not remove the hubs either time, just ground down the edge of the stud to allow it to slide past the carrier (Do a search). No problems now.:biggrin:

 

[RON98]

use a tq wrench.

i dont understand it when people dont.

if tq are not equal you risk warping the rotors.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I am very religious about torquing the wheels. I put the wheels on and tighten them by hand. Then drop the car off the jacks. Tighten them in a star pattern a little with the torque wrench and go back again and torque them down to factory spec 80#.

I check them before I drive up to the track and then during tech inspection. I then check them during lunch break. I am careful to check that they are torqued to 80 and not to over-torque when checking them.

I think that my problem lies with the centering rings (I switched the nylon ones that came with the wheels with Dali aluminum rings) for the Enkeis. I had no problems when I was running stock rims. I even ran H&R 15mm hubcentric spacers with stock rims on the track without problems. I don't know, maybe it's the combo of centering rings, and a larger, R comp sticky tire (235/40/17 & 275/40/17) that is stressing the studs too much.

Going to ARP studs and see what happens.

 

[Daedalus]

I put the wheels on and tighten them by hand. Then drop the car off the jacks.

This has me a bit concerned. How much torque is hand-tight? If there's any play in the interface, or if the rings don't transfer the weight to the hub properly, you could be putting one stud in bending which, with the added spacers, would be a good-sized contributor to the stress on the lug. A good 10 ft-lbs on all nuts prior to dropping the car would be enough clamping on the wheel to guarantee all studs will remain almost entirely in tension, which is best.
Fully torqued each stud is carrying over 8000 lbs of tension, total clamping force on each wheel is over 40,000 lbs. Sticky tires are not a factor!

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Ok, last month I was at the track with my new Enkei RPF01s and Toyo R888s and broke two studs, one on each rear wheel.

Well, I replaced them with OEM studs (I was running the longer H&R studs with my 15mm spacers with the stock wheels).

So, this weekend I go up to Mid Ohio and broke another one on the rear wheel. Now, being conscious of over tightening I made sure that I torqued them to exactly 80lb/ft. I got rid of the plastic centering rings and am using the Dali aluminum hubcenteric rings for the Enkei. I am also using different lug nuts than I was last time. But I still broke a stud!!!

You replaced all 20 studs with new OEM ones; or are you stating that you just replaced the broken ones as they failed?

 

[CL65 Captain]

You replaced all 20 studs with new OEM ones; or are you stating that you just replaced the broken ones as they failed?

Replaced all 20 studs with new OEM ones.

you could be putting one stud in bending which, with the added spacers, would be a good-sized contributor to the stress on the lug. A good 10 ft-lbs on all nuts prior to dropping the car would be enough clamping on the wheel to guarantee all studs will remain almost entirely in tension, which is best.

Not running spacers with my track wheels.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

ARP it is...

Three choices:

ARP-100-7708 (Corvette - have to drill out to .5") 2.5" perfect length for 15mm spacers for my OEM street and then open lug for the Enkei track wheels, but no going back after drilling.

ARP-100-7710 - Honda stock fittment 1.85" - give up my spacers for OEM wheels

ARP-100-7712 - Honda extra, extra long 2.85" - probably to long to use OEM lug nuts even with 15mm spacers. STMPO, this looks like the ones you are using. Yes? They look awful long. I don't think that with my 15mm and OEM wheel that I could still use the stock lugs. Looks like I would have to use open nuts, which is fine with the track wheels - don't care about looks but don't want for street.

open ended isnt your only option... here are a few closed ends with good detailed pics

http://www.upgrademotoring.com/wheels/lugnuts.htm

I hope it helps... After I went with arp's... I would never use anything else... same thing with any engine head for that matter...

 

[CL65 Captain]

Broke one of my ARP studs today at Putnam.

Forgot my extra studs at home and had to leave after the first session this morning.

 

[Hrant]

Just curious, have you verified if your torque wrench is accurate?

 

[CL65 Captain]

Just curious, have you verified if your torque wrench is accurate?

It has to be at least close, as it was double checked by the guys doing Tech using their wrench.

I am going to go buy another one today to compare. But unless it is way off it shouldn't account for snapping studs every time I go out. Plus, I am running ARP studs now. I think it has to be do to the fact that I am running centering rings with my Enkeis. I am using the Dali Aluminum ones and not the nylon ones that came with it. I can't think of anything else. I never had any problems with my OEM wheels. I don't know.... ????????

I guess I will just carry a few extra studs in my tool chest from now on - what a PITA.

 

[Ponyboy]

Broke one of my ARP studs today at Putnam.

Holy crap.

That's going to suck to have your mind on that at the track.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Holy crap.

That's going to suck to have your mind on that at the track.

You telling me. I can't figure it out. I just went and bought a $120 craftsman torque wrench. My other one was an Autozone $40 one, but damn even if it was 10% off I don't think overtightening them by that amount would snap them. Plus, like I said they checked them that morning in tech inspection. The Porsche guys run theirs at 94 and I am the only one who has snapped studs.

Yea, this sucks!