Late night drag race

[NSEX]

Last weekend my friends and I got nothing to do so we gathered some cars and drove to an industrial area for some races. There were 2 new Porche 996, CLK 430, BPU+++ Supra, NSX, 300ZX, and Corvette C5 coupe..etc. Here're some results from the race:
NSX v.s. tiptronic 996:
NSX win all the way, but I was surprised that the tiptronic 996 was pretty fast.
NSX v.s. CLK 430:
NSX win. No contest.
NSX v.s BPU+++ Supra:
Supra win. This was expected, but the BPU+++ didn't "kill" my NSX because it had kind bald tires and 1st gear of Supra just wasn't fast at all.
NSX v.s C5:
C5 win. This was unexpected because I've raced with C5 convertiable and we were dead even, maybe the coupe is lighter? We were dead even 1st and 2nd, but the C5 passed me pretty fast in 3rd.
I felt my NSX was slower now than the time I just bought it 2 years ago which doesn't make sense because my car is actually lighter now. Is there anything wrong with my car? What do I need to check? Thanks!

 

[Craig]

I had the exact same results with my '91 and a C-5. He only had me by 1/2 car. HE was suprised.

 

[PUREVIL]

Try taking off your 17/18s and run factory tires. I know mine feels quite a bit faster with the stock 15/16 because they weigh less.

Or maybe your heavier now than 2 years ago from all that lifting you've been doing! HAHAHA.

[This message has been edited by PUREVIL (edited 13 March 2001).]

 

[dswartz]

NSEX, What year is your car? What mods?

 

[Khuang]

NSX v.s C5:
C5 win.

I have been try to tell everybody on this forum that the C5 is alot faster than older generation NSX. Yes I wish the NSX is faster but just not true. I dynoed 320-334 rwhp and turn 112-113mph trap speed in the 1/4 mi with a Comptech SC and I just pull away from C5 slowly. The C5 is good for 108-111 mph if driven correctly.

I have seen C5 on road course and they just have alot more power than NSX with header and exhaust. The speed difference is very apparent.

 

[286 NSX]

have you done anything different to your car since 2 years a go NSEX?

I second khuang. C5's are fast. the damn thing went through about 2 different designs, I think (don't quote me) since the nsx's 91 (not including 97+). So I dont really give it up to the C5 for its win.

 

[NSEX]

My car is '91 with HKS exhaust, Comptech header and cat, K&N intake, 17/18 Advan Model 7 wheels for performance, I think the wheels did have an impact. When I had 16/17 stock wheels on, I could hang with C5 convertiable. However, after I went larger wheels with fatter tires, this C5 coupe was faster than me obviously. I know the coupe is lighter than the convertiable, but do they really make such big difference?

 

[dswartz]

I ran the tire size difference through "cartest" software. Stock the car ran 13.9 @ 104mph. With 265x35x18 rear tires, it ran 14.3 @ 102mph. Tire size can make a huge difference!

 

[BobsYT]

Larger diameter tires = 'longer' gearing = slower acceleration (added rotational weight also has an impact)

solution = 4.23 0r 4.55 Ring & pinion to make up for larger tires

------------------
BobsYT
2000 Red/Black #81

 

[ilya]

I have to confirm regarding the C5. My previous car before my NSX was a 2000 C5. I bought the NSX because I liked it mcuh more than the C5s.... but the C5 was faster, no doubt about it. Not A LOT faster, but more kick in the pants.
It would make sense. 350 ft/lbs of torque vs. 220 or so. I think at high speeds, the NSX has an advantage, but not for stop and go drag racing. When it comes to torque, there isn't much substitution for cubic inches.
Still, got bored of the C5. Bought an NSX. Need I say more.
Never got bored of the ZR1s though.

hehe

 

[PUREVIL]

I wonder if you raced a Z06?

 

[ilya]

If he raced a Z06 it would have been a good 3 to 5 car lengths ahead unless the driver was not very good. Those cars can run with Vipers. The 385 factory estimate is very conservative. Many Z06 owners dyno over 400HP bone stock.
If he's sure it was a c5 coupe it couldn't have been a Z06 because they only come in hardtop.
The Z06s don't really do it for me, but damn they're fast.

 

[ilya]

Also, if it was a 2001 C5 coupe then it has 375 ft./lbs of torque. They bumped it up from 350 to 375 in 2001. The vette owners were complaining that they still didn't have enough torque. gee.

 

[vtec]

just curios where did u guys go, id love to come and check out the fun.. marine drive by boundary by any chance. south terminal at the airport, let me know i wanta watch next time. ..later.

 

[nsxtasy]

It would make sense. 350 ft/lbs of torque vs. 220 or so.

Comparing horsepower is a better indication than comparing torque. Even though torque determines acceleration, it's torque at the wheels that matters - and torque at the wheels equals torque at the crank times gearing. The gearing helps the NSX because you can leave it in gear all the way up to the 8000 rpm redline, whereas the Vette has to shift at a lower rev point - losing torque at the wheels as the gearing changes. This is why the horsepower in the NSX is so much higher than torque - because the NSX can rev higher.

I'm not saying the NSX is as fast as the C5, only that it makes more sense to compare the horsepower figures of each rather than the torque figures.

 

[Khuang]

Originally posted by ilya:
If he raced a Z06 it would have been a good 3 to 5 car lengths ahead unless the driver was not very good. Those cars can run with Vipers. The 385 factory estimate is very conservative. Many Z06 owners dyno over 400HP bone stock.

No Z06 dynos over 400 rwhp (flywheel, yes). A Z06 will beat a older gen. NSX by about 10 car length in the 1/4 mi. The only way you can hang with a Z06 in drag racing is Supercharger, Header, Exhaust, Short gear and 4.55 R&P. That will put you run 12.4's with 60 feet time still over 2.0 seconds.

You need the gears in the NSX to get off the line quickly which is everything in drag racing.

 

[NSX2F1]

I guess, if straight line accelleration you are after, buy a C5, if you can handle all the cheap plastics. But if you are after the best driving dynamics, buy an NSX.

I have an NSX since 96, and it's still tricky for me to find the car's limit, because it's mid-engined. An NSX is maybe easier to drive than other exotics, but like other mid-engine, rear driven, it's very hard to determine its limit around a corner. This is why I love it. It never a boring experience. A C5 on the other hand, maybe right at home for drag racing, but I don't know what I am gonna do with the car the rest of the time. I will drag race my Lexus GS400 anytime, but not the NSX. It's simply too precious.

 

[ilya]

Yes, I was referring to crank horsepower. I don't recall what they get at the rear wheels. I was comparing crank to crank 350 to 220. It's difficult to speak of vettes in RWHP terms because they vary quite a bit. just generalizing.

You are right... it may be more like 10 car lengths. I was being conservative.

The gearing in vettes is quite aggresive, esp. the Z06. C5s stock gearing on a M6 is 3.42. Higher on a Z06, but I don't recall.
From my experience, torque and gearing make the biggest difference in a street race.
The 5th and 6th gears of a vette are just economy gears, can't use either in a race. NSX has the advantage there as well. However, you only need 2 gears to hit 80 in a Z06... both of which pull like a black hole.
IMO, the fact Z06s are getting over 300ft/lbs of torque (at the crank) by the time the revs hit 2000RPMS makes a huge difference in a drag race. The engine is designed for huge torque at low rpms.
They also have nice, large meats in the back that help on the launch.

I'm still not a big Z06 fan... I was just trying to point out some things. I'm sure on a track that it would be different. The new C5s including the Z06 are not really top end monsters. The older ZR1s will take a Z06 in top end. In fact, even in a 1/4 mile a 90 ZR1 can pull on a Z06. If they were meant for top end driving, gear 5 and 6 wouldn't be economy. A vette is not stable at very high speeds. The NSX kills them in this category... a real race car IMO.

 

[Khuang]

it's still tricky for me to find the car's limit, because it's mid-engined.

I hear that alot. I thought the NSX is just really easy car to drive coming from my last car Supra TT. I have never spun the NSX on a road course and I drive like crazy (but I am not fast). I also notice from time trials, not too many NSX drivers can get even 90% of the car out of it on the road course and they have been to 20+ events?

 

[nsxtasy]

Yes, I was referring to crank horsepower. I don't recall what they get at the rear wheels. I was comparing crank to crank 350 to 220.

Crank hp in the '91-96 NSX with five-speed is 270. In the '97+ NSX with six-speed it's 290.

 

[ilya]

My apologies. I was referring to the torque when I said 350 vs. 220, not the HP.

 

[nsxtasy]

And now we've come full circle, back to where we started.

Should I repeat the response about "Comparing horsepower is a better indication than comparing torque", and we can go 'round and 'round?

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 14 March 2001).]

 

[NSEX]

Originally posted by dswartz:
I ran the tire size difference through "cartest" software. Stock the car ran 13.9 @ 104mph. With 265x35x18 rear tires, it ran 14.3 @ 102mph. Tire size can make a huge difference!

What year is your NSX? 13.9 and 14.3, that's quite a lot! What kinda of 18" wheels did you have? I certainly feel the difference between my old 18" Racing Hart Type C Tracer and the 18" Advan Model 7 which is lighter, however, they aren't as light as the stock 16/17 combo.
Khuang,
What was your experience with Supra TT? I've liked the car since '94 and I was going to get a Supra instead of the NSX, but I couldn't find a mint Supra so end up getting my NSX, however, now I've no regret at all and I love my NSX to death. Now I'm thinking selling my Prelude SH and get a used Supra TT if I could save up enough money.

[This message has been edited by NSEX (edited 14 March 2001).]

 

[ilya]

NSXTACY,
I recall what you posted earlier about HP being a better indicator than torque. I was just clarifying my error earlier in the post.

 

[ilya]

I can add misspelling your handle to that list as well.