light weight wheels

[smoore]

right now i have 17'x7.5 and 18"x9.5 oz f-1 cup racing wheel and to be quite honest i have no clue whether it is a light wheel or not and if not what is the lightest wheel for the nsx (te-37 or the enqie, not sure if thats spelled right) and what do those wheels weight in compareson?
thanks,
stuart

[This message has been edited by smoore (edited 31 March 2002).]

 

[rsdonzi]

I have found that your question deserves two answers based upon my experience with the members of this forum.

Answer One:
I don't know about your wheels (many aftermarket wheels are boat anchors) but the Volk TE37 and Mugen MF10 are some of the lightest and highest quality wheels available. The Volk TE37 in 16x7 weigh 11.2 lbs compared to 16.75lbs for OEM. The Volk TE37 in 17x8.5 weigh 15.4 lbs compared to 20.85 lbs for OEM. The Mugen wheels are comparable in weight to the Volks.
Answer Two:
The lighest of all is no wheels and tires. If you decide to go this route add a perfomance catback exhaust (the new sound should compensate for the lack of driving satisfaction).

I believe that the hook is now properly baited. I guess we will just wait and see!!

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

Your wheels are quite heavy, 25lbs each for the front 17x7.5 and 26-27lbs for the rear 18x9.5. The fronts are 50% heavier than the oem 16 fronts and the rear are 25-30% heavier than the oem 17 rears. If you wants some lightweight wheels that don't break the budget, here is a option from us: SSR Competition Wheels
http://www.acrmotorsports.com/ssrcom171.html

The SSR Competition wheels are made using proprietary semi-solid forging (SSF) technology. 17x7.5 fronts weigh roughly 12.7lbs and the 18x9.5 rears weigh about 18.5lbs! Also available in 17/17 and 18/18 setups.

Originally posted by smoore:
right now i have 17'x7.5 and 18"x9.5 oz f-1 cup racing wheel and to be quite honest i have no clue whether it is a light wheel or not and if not what is the lightest wheel for the nsx (te-37 or the enqie, not sure if thats spelled right) and what do those wheels weight in compareson?
thanks,
stuart

[This message has been edited by smoore (edited 31 March 2002).]

[This message has been edited by ACR_Motorsports (edited 31 March 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ACR_Motorsports:
The SSR Competition wheels are made using proprietary semi-solid forging (SSF) technology.

Almost as light, using the same forging methods, and less expensive are the SSR Integral. And, I prefer the looks.

 

[Michigan NSX]

If you are not going to track the car I would reconsider switching the wheels. Although heavier than the other wheels mentioned above, the OZ are an extremely high quality wheel - they supply more than one Formula 1 team with wheels. Also, I think the F1 Cup is a GORGEOUS looking wheel and I can imagine it looks very high tech on your NSX.

(This is not to suggest the Volk, Enkei, or SSR are not high quality wheels)

------------------
'91 Black/Black

 

[smoore]

true.. i like the look of my wheels but i got a coupe for saving weight and now i'm trying to really crack down on it. i didn't like the ssr wheels that were posted but te-37 i think look as nice may be better if polished...
what to do what to do....

 

[nsxtasy]

The new (May) issue of Sport Compact Car includes a buyers guide to 153 different wheels, and they weighed all of them.

 

[smoore]

cool.... i'll check it out
thanx.

 

[huckster]

if you dont want the f1 cups, let me know....

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Michigan NSX:
If you are not going to track the car I would reconsider switching the wheels. Although heavier than the other wheels mentioned above, the OZ are an extremely high quality wheel - they supply more than one Formula 1 team with wheels. Also, I think the F1 Cup is a GORGEOUS looking wheel and I can imagine it looks very high tech on your NSX.

Whenever I hear/read something like this I can't help wondering what a person means. What makes a wheel "extremely high quality" in your mind? For me, if it's a boat anchor it can't even make the list. Awesome appearance? That's not quality for me, it's appearance, and it's well down the list of criteria, which looks something like:

~ Strong enough to be safe in daily use and at the track
~ Lightweight
~ Uniformly straight and balanced
~ Corrosion resistant

Wheels have come to be like countless other things in life, fashion and price are constantly mistaken for quality.


[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 05 April 2002).]

 

[kenjiMR]

I use 17x7.5 front and 18x9 rear TE37s.
They are very nice forged wheels and I have noticed some performance improvement by useing
these wheels over OEM sizes. I think someone here has polished TE37s. I am using
the bronze tinted one.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The forged alloy Bridgestone GC-07C in NSX fitment is 16lbs F, 18.5lbs rear, one of the lightest wheels I've seen for the NSX.
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/exterior_performance_products/NSX/wheels/Bridgestone_GC-07C/

The Work Emotion, a new wheel for the NSX from Work, is a single piece forged wheel that is also very light:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/exterior_performance_products/NSX/Work/

The TE-37's are nice wheels (about a pound lighter than the GC-07C wheel) but even at the lowest offset that will be flush with the NSX stock fender, the brake clearance is not exceptional due to the flat spoke design.

Cheers,
-- Chris



------------------

Sign up for the Northwest NSXCA Track Event at Thunderhill:
http://sacramento.nsxca.org/Events/thunderhill_driving_school_4-02.htm

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by sjs:
Whenever I hear/read something like this I can't help wondering what a person means. What makes a wheel "extremely high quality" in your mind?

If you read my whole post you will see that I started off by saying "if you are not going to track your car...". To me, an extremely high quality wheel for a road car is one that meets the following criteria (in order of importance):

1. Is available in the size I need
2. Looks great
3. Comes from a reliable manufacturer (I defy anyone to say OZ doesn't make good wheels)
4. Weight is not a big determining factor to me for a road car.

Wheels have come to be like countless other things in life, fashion and price are constantly mistaken for quality.

OZ quite often leads the design field in wheels (therefore they are not following fashion, but leading the trend). Also I dont think OZ has ever been accused of making cheap (moneywise) wheels.

------------------
'91 Black/Black

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Originally posted by Michigan NSX:
OZ quite often leads the design field in wheels ...

Like a lot of other wheel manufactures, OZ has a top line wheel portfolio and a low end portfolio. The wheels Stuart has are from the lower end spectrum where less expensive manufacturing methods (ie. cast vs. forged) are used to offer a less expensive and lower tech wheel.

-- Chris


------------------

Sign up for the Northwest NSXCA Track Event at Thunderhill:
http://sacramento.nsxca.org/Events/thunderhill_driving_school_4-02.htm

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Michigan NSX:
If you read my whole post you will see that I started off by saying "if you are not going to track your car...". To me, an extremely high quality wheel for a road car is one that meets the following criteria...

Not flaming here, just expressing my observations and opinions.

Your criteria strike me as just that, various criteria and their importance to you, but none of the relate to "extremely high quality" by any definition I know. Perhaps that makes them extremely desirable to you, but that's subjective. Quality, though not always easily quantified, is typically measurable and generally easy to agree upon.

As for price, I meant over-priced, which IMNSHO they are given their weight. In my book style is not quality, although people marketing designer brand junk would like us to beleive otherwise. (No, I'm not saying OZ wheels are junk, just venting about form over function and the public's insatiable appetite for crappy products at inflated prices.)

Why do I bother with all this? No to pick on you, but just to help balance your claims with more facts for those newbies who may be taking notes here.

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by sjs:
Not flaming here, just expressing my observations and opinions

.
No flames taken - I'm not upset when someone asks what I mean or asks me to explain myself.

Your criteria strike me as just that, various criteria and their importance to you, but none of the relate to "extremely high quality" by any definition I know. Perhaps that makes them extremely desirable to you, but that's subjective. Quality, though not always easily quantified, is typically measurable and generally easy to agree upon.

Agreed - I was basing the "extremely high quality" remark on the reputation (well deserved, I think) of the manufacturer. However I was not aware that the F1-Cup was in their "lower" line of wheels (thanks to Chris at SOS for pointing that out).

As for price, I meant over-priced, which IMNSHO they are given their weight. In my book style is not quality, although people marketing designer brand junk would like us to beleive otherwise. (No, I'm not saying OZ wheels are junk, just venting about form over function and the public's insatiable appetite for crappy products at inflated prices.)

My bad on this one - I thought you meant fashion and low pricewas all anyone cared about.

Why do I bother with all this? No to pick on you, but just to help balance your claims with more facts for those newbies who may be taking notes here.

I did not take your inital reply to be "picking on me" and I'm sorry if my post sounded like I was upset.

I will still stick to my point that for a road car, weight (within reason - ie. 10lbs one way or the other) is not all that important. JMHO

------------------
'91 Black/Black


[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 06 April 2002).]

 

[Number9]

I will still stick to my point that for a road car, weight (within reason - ie. 10lbs one way or the other) is not all that important. JMHO
[/B]

So just another opinion, but the NSX design philosophy is that of a light weight car with a decent power-to-weight ratio. If you can reduce both rotating mass and unsprung weight, I think it's a huge win and consistent with the NSX design goals. So buy more Zanardi wheels - or SSR Competitions or whatever lightweights suit your fancy...

 

[Vegas Boy]

This is kind of here nor there, but I run a set of Work Anhelos (17/18). I had to send
them in for some repairs and put the original
1991 wheels/tires on for about a week.
After that, I had a set of Momos I had lying around that I threw on for a week as well.
(I also had a compressor and impact wrench that I wanted to play with- every garage should have one!)

Anyways, Wow, what a difference between these various setups. Until I compared them back to back I didn't realize how your wheel/tire setup affectd the feel, steering input and handling.

The stock setup felt fairly nimble but had no grip and felt "thin" compared to the Works. Also, they looked funny on the car as the Works fill out the wheel wells perfecty to the edge giving the car a muscular look; looked kind of like Pamela Anderson with the implants removed!

The Momos, I swear, actually felt "heavy" in in terms of steering response. They were chrome which I understand adds weight.
Handling was sluggish and somewhat detached.

Now I have my refurbished Works on, and the car once again feels like a F1 car- light, nimble with plenty of grip (285/35/18 & 215/40/17 Toyo Proxes). Plus, the look great, IMHO.

Contrast that to the chrome BMW 18" wheels I have on my 750iL- I could tell almost no diff from the stock 16" inchers in terms of feel, but the handling was slightly better, probably due to the bigger footprint. ALso, the BMW has an active, self leveling suspension, that may make a diff. It also weighs 4000 pounds!

Reason I posted this is that on the NSX, cosmetics apparently are absolutely not worth anything without performance virtues, unless you are just a total poser. The car, probably due to the low weight and high tech suspension, seems very influenced by tire/wheel combos. I would not waste my time or $$$ on anything other than top of the line wheels and tires.

Anyways, just my non-technical "seat of the pants" analysis.

Wayne

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Vegas Boy:
... Anyways, just my non-technical "seat of the pants" analysis. ... Wayne

Good post.

Originally posted by Vegas Boy:
... Contrast that to the chrome BMW 18" wheels I have on my 750iL- I could tell almost no diff from the stock 16" inchers in terms of feel, but the handling was slightly better, probably due to the bigger footprint...Wayne

Note to nsxtasy: Let's not do that one again!

 

[Forums Nazi]

Originally posted by sjs:
Note to nsxtasy: Let's not do that one again!

Vegas Boy, sjs is referring to the fact that when you get bigger wheels and wider tires, the size of the contact patch, or footprint, doesn't change, only its shape does. This has been discussed ad nauseum here, for example in this topic.

 

[smoore]

yeah, i happy with my wheels but i think it might be time for a change if anyone intrested in the wheels they art 17'& 18' polished f-1 racing wheel not the best wheel but by far not the worst...

 

[Vegas Boy]

Well, I certainly dont want to start
anything, but how could a 285/40/18 tire NOT have a bigger "footprint" than a
215/60/16 tire?

Anyways, I dont care much for the technical what not, the car just feels better with
bigger rubber!

 

[Vegas Boy]

OK, call me quick draw. I just went back into archives are read a bunch of long threads on the whole "big rubber" issue.

I can now comfortably state the following:

1) I think I have a basic grasp of the mechanics/physics of this debate, although I must admit I still think my NSX puts down more contact that the nanny's Saturn.
Of course, I think David Copperfield
really DID make that 747 vanish, too....

2) After all the slide rule stuff and the debate, there must be a good reason why almost all racing rubber is big and wide.
NASCAR, F1, etc don't run on 205/70/15 wide ovals.


3) I like the big/wide look regardless of
the decimal point performance improvement.

4) I promise to read before posting again.

'nuff said!

Wayne

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Vegas Boy:
OK, call me quick draw.

We'll leave that to the ladies.

 

[Steve Theodore]

Notice how heavy many of the wheels are in that SCC article? Yikes!

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
The new (May) issue of Sport Compact Car includes a buyers guide to 153 different wheels, and they weighed all of them.

------------------
Steve Theodore
1995 Supra TT hardtop BPU+++
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