Lousy steering UPDATE

[sexnsx]

Thanks to everyone who was kind enough to chip in with info. I will be looking into all that you have mentioned.
With regards to alignment, i have found the actual aligment printout that was done when I bought the car:

Rear axel:
Total toe= +0.19
Camber= -1.37(left)
-1.29(right)

Front axel:
Castor= +8.32(left)
+8.34(right)
Camber= -0.36(l)
-0.48(r)
Total toe= -0.35

Does this make any sense to anyone? Does it explain the floaty feel?

The car is a 1993 with the OEM wheels 15-16 inch. Yokohama A022 at the front and Bridgestone S02 at rear. All four tyres are new.

 

[Chuck]

Originally posted by sexnsx:

Does this make any sense to anyone? Does it explain the floaty feel?

The car is a 1993 with the OEM wheels 15-16 inch. Yokohama A022 at the front and Bridgestone S02 at rear. All four tyres are new.
[/B]

I'd say your tires are the problem. Get a matched set, preferably the ones made specifically for the car. It's bad enough when you mix types, but when you mix brands, your asking for trouble. Especially on a car with the feedback the NSX gives you.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

If the unit is the same with here in US for the toe. The front toe is very agressive. -.35" is over 4mm (out) each side. This can give the feel like the car want to wonder everytime you hit road irregularities. I would try to get the front toe about -.2" max for total toe, or even slightly less. I run .16" myself.

 

[sjs]

Assuming those alignment specs are still true, they are not your problem. However, you originally said the tires were A022s, not a mix. BIG difference with any car much less the NSX and the special tire design. If you had an accident you would have a good case against the dealer for reckless endangerment or some other liability term if it was an Acura dealer. Man, that is so bad. Even if they bought it that way they should never have sold it without matching tires one way or the other. I'd take it back and raise a stink. (politely at first, but relentlessly until they coughed up some tires.)

Check the FAQ for more info about the special OEM tire design, but mixing them with anything else is asking for serious trouble. Anyone dumb enough to do that may also have "rotated" the fronts side to side, which is also not safe.

Edit: Hmmm... Andrie may be correct about front toe. I was thinking that's within spec but I'd need to check. Still, it should not result in the severity of problems you describe, but the miss-matched tires certainly can. Mixing tires is a very unpredictable thing. Somne combinations fell OK while others are a disaster.

[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 28 August 2002).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/alignment.htm
Did you read the FAQ? see link above.
This could be the key per Andrie's post - is the actual toe -0.35" or is it -3.5mm (which is the spec)
Do we have a typo or a major problem? As Andrie says .35" is equivelant to ~ 8mm for total toe.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
Do we have a typo or a major problem?

I don't know; I get all confused when trying to compare mm and inches with degrees...

 

[sjs]

Yea, I think the UK would be using inches rather than millimeters, but it could be in degrees. That's worth a closer look if it's more than double specs, but the tires still gotta go.

 

[sexnsx]

Yes there does seem to be a transatlantic difference in the way they measure total toe. My dealer has just told me that front total toe of -0.35 means 0(degrees)and 35minutes. So is this the same as -3.5mm? If that is so then the front end is at spec. However the back end is +0.25minutes which is no where near the 6 or even 4mm for spec.

 

[Gerard van Santen]

[/

Originally posted by sexnsx:


Camber= -0.36(l)
-0.48(r)

Does this make any sense to anyone? Does it explain the floaty feel?

Why are you so low on camber for rear?

I set my rear camber always between 2.0 and 2.5 degrees and I still have an equal wear pattern for my Bridg. SO2 (285x35x18).

I use the same camber for front as you do and my toe (front) is as aggressive as yours.

I do a lot of trackracing (European NSX Trophy) and do a lot of highspeed driving on the German highways. Often faster than 150 mph.

My car is stable and feels secure.

Good luck,
Gerard

[This message has been edited by Gerard van Santen (edited 29 August 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Gerard van Santen (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[Dr.Honda]

I agree with the above comments re mixing tires but I still think your problem is your shocks.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Originally posted by sexnsx:
Yes there does seem to be a transatlantic difference in the way they measure total toe. My dealer has just told me that front total toe of -0.35 means 0(degrees)and 35minutes. So is this the same as -3.5mm? If that is so then the front end is at spec. However the back end is +0.25minutes which is no where near the 6 or even 4mm for spec.

In that case the next thin I'll check is definitely the shocks.

 

[sexnsx]

Guys I took your advice and checked the shocks. I havent taken it to the dealer for a proper shock test, but I have felt the shocks after a hard long run and discovered that they were not hot at all. I dont want to jump to conclusion, (I did not remove the front wheels, just stuck my hand in the wheel arch and grabbed the shock), but is my problem solved? Do I replace all 4 shocks or just the front 2?

 

[nsxtasy]

I would replace all four.

They have to do an alignment when they replace them, so that ought to take care of the alignment specs too (not sure if we ever resolved the question of whether they were off).

I would also recommend replacing the S02 tires with OEM tires to match the other pair on the car...

 

[Mustafa_nsx]

Hello

I just bought a 1991 NSX and the steering feels lousy exactly similar to your description. What did you do to fix it? Replaced the shocks, tires or alignment?

 

[NSX_n00b]

Hello

I just bought a 1991 NSX and the steering feels lousy exactly similar to your description. What did you do to fix it? Replaced the shocks, tires or alignment?

lets start with a few basic questions:

Are you on OEM wheels?

What size tires? All the same tire (other than size)?

What suspension are you currently using? OEM? How many miles?

Do you have an alignment printout?

Is this a manual or auto NSX?

 

[Mustafa_nsx]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. My car is actually almost new with 7800 original miles on it. The shocks never been changed and tires are 6 years old and it was kept indoors most of its life. Everything else is OEM. I know how NSX steering should feel but this one disappointed me big time. It feels like driving an old coupe Accord. When I steer it sharply, it does not respond the way it should. I’m asking here to see what our friend in this thread has done to fix the issue.

I’ve done some research and found that shocks may deteriorate overtime due to loss of fluid viscosity and stress from vehicle weight. I just wanna make sure that’s the main cause because I can’t tell while driving that the shocks are bad except the lack of road feel on steering wheel. I’m gonna change them anyway and I need to know if anything else I should consider fixing as well.

Thanks

 

[Honcho]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. My car is actually almost new with 7800 original miles on it. The shocks never been changed and tires are 6 years old and it was kept indoors most of its life. Everything else is OEM. I know how NSX steering should feel but this one disappointed me big time. It feels like driving an old coupe Accord. When I steer it sharply, it does not respond the way it should. I’m asking here to see what our friend in this thread has done to fix the issue.

I’ve done some research and found that shocks may deteriorate overtime due to loss of fluid viscosity and stress from vehicle weight. I just wanna make sure that’s the main cause because I can’t tell while driving that the shocks are bad except the lack of road feel on steering wheel. I’m gonna change them anyway and I need to know if anything else I should consider fixing as well.

Thanks

This makes more sense. What you're describing in the steering behavior is usually the result of four potential issues:

• Alignment
• Tires
• Suspension
• Suspension Bushings

I'd address it in that order. Take it to an alignment shop and make sure it is aligned within spec for a 91. If that doesn't work, put new tires on it that have the proper characteristics for the NSX- namely, stiff sidewalls. A lot of people like the Yokohama AD08. If you are on OEM 91 wheels, you should have a lot of choices in the Extreme Performance category. If it's still feeling "numb", then it's time to change out the suspension. Mita Motorsports can get you a brand new OEM set. Finally, if it still isn't right, you can replace all of the suspension components with new ones- this has the effect of getting you new rubber bushings in all of the connection points. The NSX Refresh Center in Tochigi does this for the older NSXs, since the rubber is usually shot. But, given the low mileage and good storage conditions, I doubt your bushings are bad.

 

[Mustafa_nsx]

I will do that and update you

Thanks a lot man

 

[Honcho]

I will do that and update you

Thanks a lot man

Good luck. My guess is it's your tires.