MAC OR PC which is better?

[akira3d]

Been involved with computer graphics all my life and have never owned a Mac.

Got started with a IBM PCjr...when all my friends had Apple 2s and Commodore 64s. (Well, technically, I got started with BASIC for the Intellivision Keyboard Component, but that isn't the subject of this thread)

Only real experience working on a Mac came while I was taking a course in electronic music recording at USC. I was far more productive using the DOS-based sequencer I had installed on my PC, but I had to do my project entirely within their Mac-equipped recording lab. I learned that Macs do crash (contrary to what Apple evangelists have been telling me for years).

Have worked over 20 years in the video game industry and haven't once had a Mac at my desk.

I don't have an iPod, iPhone, or iPad either...

 

[Arshad]

yeah but the way mac users FIX any issues with their programs not working is to re-install. instead of fixing the issue just wipe it out and start fresh is their motto.

kinda points you back to 90% of mac users are ................

fill in blank

You're kidding right? For over 15 years, most Windows machines slowly deteriorated in performance until they were slow as molasses (typically from malware running amok). The solution was always "Reinstall Windows". If your machine was running slow or acting funky or had malware you couldn't get rid of... "Reinstall Windows". How ridiculous! That's a hell of a lot more intrusive than reinstalling an application (which most people don't do on the Mac either, not sure what gave you that idea).

 

[bfrank1972]

Jimbo, yeah thats the talk around town.

SSD is the fastest thing out there. but down side they only last 6-7 months.

1st gens did have some performance degradation, and possibly reliability problems. Nowadays they're darned reliable and they're working around the degradation issues.

I have heard guys are putting these harddrive in 15 year old laptops and making them as fast as an I7 with win7

No way, unless the I7 machine is severely ram limited.

 

[bfrank1972]

Been involved with computer graphics all my life and have never owned a Mac.

Got started with a IBM PCjr...when all my friends had Apple 2s and Commodore 64s. (Well, technically, I got started with BASIC for the Intellivision Keyboard Component, but that isn't the subject of this thread)

Off topic, but hey me too! Souped it up with a V20 chip and a whopping 512kb ram sidecar. I even hacked flight simulator to use the built in 16 color mode of the PCjr instead of the default 4 color :biggrin:

 

[Jimbo]

Hmm, that could be true, but lets see what IS indicative of Mac vs PC in the gov't. Let's look to see how the government spends our money and where.

http://www.fedspending.org/ is a website and database to give journalists, analysts, government officials, and regular citizens easy access to information on federal spending.

According to it, in FY2000 to FY2009, the US Government spent:

$16,373,091 with Apple Inc (of which $2,080,029 was used to buy computers, assuming Macs)
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/fpd...eptype=r&database=fpds&fiscal_year=&submit=GO

$11,095,972,062 with IBM (of which $78,010,255 was used to buy computers, assuming PCs)
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/fpd...eptype=r&database=fpds&fiscal_year=&submit=GO

$8,758,764,037 with Dell Computer (of which $3,934,009,853 was used to buy computers, assuming PCs)
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/fpd...eptype=r&database=fpds&fiscal_year=&submit=GO

$18,346,803,312 with Hewlett-Packard (of which $189,363,956 was used on computers, assuming PCs)
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/fpd...eptype=r&database=fpds&fiscal_year=&submit=GO

So basically between FY2000 to FY2009 the US Government spent
$4,201,384,064 on PC hardware (from the big 3 PC companies) and
$2,080,029 on Macs (or about 2020 times less).

I think it's safe to say PCs rule in the US Government and the picture IS indicative of Mac vs PC in the gov't. :smile:

Adrian,

I have to spend more time with the FedSpending site. Good resource that I wasn't aware of.

However, I did discover that 2009 data is really incomplete.

In 2007, Apple apparently sold $2,159,601.

In 2008 (which was the last full year there's data for - Apple apparently sold $7,389,950. More than double.

2009 and 2010 were big growth years and there's just no data here for that. 2009 might have been 20,000,000.

I also wonder if Apple products that are sold through VARs and partners (like Unisys) would show up in the list. The good news is that regardless, Apple has a lot of room to grow. They could double sales year after year. It's unlikely that Dell or HP or IBM will be doing that - and that is great news for shareholders.

I'll check around and see if I can find other sources too.

-Jim

 

[Jimbo]

1st gens did have some performance degradation, and possibly reliability problems. Nowadays they're darned reliable and they're working around the degradation issues.

No way, unless the I7 machine is severely ram limited.

Yeah, that might be pushing it a bit. Unless the application was mostly doing file I/O.

And 6 months life? Nah, the latest SSD are much more robust. Apple wouldn't give a year's warranty and extended warranties on SSDs that only lasted 6 months.

There are also new drivers that enhance life and performance too.

-Jim

 

[Jimbo]

You're kidding right? For over 15 years, most Windows machines slowly deteriorated in performance until they were slow as molasses (typically from malware running amok). The solution was always "Reinstall Windows". If your machine was running slow or acting funky or had malware you couldn't get rid of... "Reinstall Windows". How ridiculous! That's a hell of a lot more intrusive than reinstalling an application (which most people don't do on the Mac either, not sure what gave you that idea).

I didn't quite get the point of that post. Knowing how to screw around with Windows Registry is nothing to be proud of. Being able to defrag your hard disk is a useless skill. Macs don't need it. I'm not sure what was meant about fixing problems but let me just say that Mac OS X is Unix based and you always have complete control of the entire machine thru the command line. You just don't have that level of control on Windows.

 

[NetViper]

i think osx looks pretty cool though i havent spent much time with it

What i do know is that the battery life of my dell laptop suckz and macs seem to last forever according to the sales spec. I have never used one long enough to find out but i might consider one in the future.

 

[Arshad]

What i do know is that the battery life of my dell laptop suckz and macs seem to last forever according to the sales spec. I have never used one long enough to find out but i might consider one in the future.

The issue is that MS doesn't sell hardware. Battery life on laptops is not a priority for them, so it's left up to the vendors to come up with solutions that try and fit into whatever hooks the OS provides. Apple's number one priority on the other hand is user experience. Apple is in a unique position where they not only put together the hardware, they also build a custom OS that goes on that hardware, AND they have in-house hardware teams that design custom processors that allow for further enhancements.

This level of control is what allows Apple to take advantage of proprietary power savings techniques in a completely seamless manner. The user doesn't even realize that if he stops typing or scrolling and is reading something on the screen, the CPU drops to a lower power state, graphics is rerouted through the CPU's internal GPU where clocks/voltage are dropped to the bare minimum, power is pulled from the discrete power rail, and memory is put into self-refresh to minimize power draw -- all in a fraction of a second.

The minute the user moves the mouse, or some other activity occurs on screen, things power back up in milliseconds, and if warranted, clocks and voltage are increased to accommodate whatever the user is trying to do. The beauty is that with custom Apple-designed hardware and very intelligent thermal and acoustic management SW, the user sees zero visual glitches or stutters as the hardware continuously switches between different power states.

The end user experience is that they get the performance of a high powered machine with high clocked CPU's and powerful GPU's, but for most everyday activities, they get the power draw of a low-powered netbook. This is what allows you to run your MBP for 7-8 hours on a single charge.

Unfortunately, the HP's, Dell's and Acers of the world simply don't have the expertise, R&D budget or inclination to go down this path. This is why you pay more for a Mac.

 

[NSX-Files]

i think osx looks pretty cool though i havent spent much time with it

What i do know is that the battery life of my dell laptop suckz and macs seem to last forever according to the sales spec. I have never used one long enough to find out but i might consider one in the future.

HOLY CRAP!!! Say it ain't so, NetViper!!!! :biggrin: Dave, you can check out my MacBook Air - super thin, 7 hours of battery life and the SSD is amazingly fast.

BTW - You back from LALA land?

 

[akira3d]

Off topic, but hey me too! Souped it up with a V20 chip and a whopping 512kb ram sidecar. I even hacked flight simulator to use the built in 16 color mode of the PCjr instead of the default 4 color :biggrin:

Wow...didn't expect to hear from another PCjr owner. I wish I had the RAM sidecar because I wanted so badly to continue playing Sierra games on it and had to stop after King's Quest II and Space Quest II (I only had 128k)...and had to play the others in ugly CGA composite mode on my dad's PC until I got my 386 a few years later. Those early Sierra games were so much better on the PCjr than the Apple 2s.

I thought MS Flight Sim had the option to run in PCjr's 16 color mode. I played it all the time back then.

I still have two PCjrs, but neither are working 100%. One has a dead power supply. I suspect the one keyboard I have is not functioning properly. I doubt my Okimate 20 printer still works.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

You're kidding right? For over 15 years, most Windows machines slowly deteriorated in performance until they were slow as molasses (typically from malware running amok). The solution was always "Reinstall Windows". If your machine was running slow or acting funky or had malware you couldn't get rid of... "Reinstall Windows". How ridiculous! That's a hell of a lot more intrusive than reinstalling an application (which most people don't do on the Mac either, not sure what gave you that idea).

I remember that disk that came with all PC's that is a like a system recovery disk for when windows gets to bogged down or something happens you just put it in and reinstall your entire system. I remember doing it probably twice when we had a HP desktop years ago.

Shawn, I ask you again, have you ever owned a Mac. You ignoring the question for the 3rd time and making these comments makes me think you however don't and just like to bash Macs, just like people on this forum like to bash corvettes.

This thread is no better than the other stupid threads that say "nsx or _____" since the original poster has no interest in purchasing a mac or anything else but a PC.

Stephen

 

[NetViper]

Wow...didn't expect to hear from another PCjr owner. I wish I had the RAM sidecar because I wanted so badly to continue playing Sierra games on it and had to stop after King's Quest II and Space Quest II (I only had 128k)...and had to play the others in ugly CGA composite mode on my dad's PC until I got my 386 a few years later. Those early Sierra games were so much better on the PCjr than the Apple 2s.

I thought MS Flight Sim had the option to run in PCjr's 16 color mode. I played it all the time back then.

I still have two PCjrs, but neither are working 100%. One has a dead power supply. I suspect the one keyboard I have is not functioning properly. I doubt my Okimate 20 printer still works.

I remember playing kings quest...cant rememeber which one but at the end u have a time limit to make it somewhere. Ouur pc was too slow to make it. we had to install it on a different pc that was faster to finish the game.

 

[bfrank1972]

Wow...didn't expect to hear from another PCjr owner. I wish I had the RAM sidecar because I wanted so badly to continue playing Sierra games on it and had to stop after King's Quest II and Space Quest II (I only had 128k)...and had to play the others in ugly CGA composite mode on my dad's PC until I got my 386 a few years later. Those early Sierra games were so much better on the PCjr than the Apple 2s.

I thought MS Flight Sim had the option to run in PCjr's 16 color mode. I played it all the time back then.

I still have two PCjrs, but neither are working 100%. One has a dead power supply. I suspect the one keyboard I have is not functioning properly. I doubt my Okimate 20 printer still works.

The version of Flight Simulator I had supported XGA 16 color, but the PCjr's memory buffer address was offset about 1/2 way, so if you tried it, it would show the image with black bars all the way down (interlacing, only 1/2 memory buffer filled). So I figured out where the memory buffer address was set in the machine code and changed it.

I can't remember if I played Kings Quest II - I know for sure I played through 1. My fave was the Ultima series (hacked that too muahah!).

Them were the good ole days.

 

[NetViper]

I remember getting Falcon 3.0 ( I think) and it needed a math coprocessor to run the best. So I had to get one! :biggrin:

 

[Arshad]

I still have two PCjrs, but neither are working 100%. One has a dead power supply. I suspect the one keyboard I have is not functioning properly. I doubt my Okimate 20 printer still works.

PCjr? I totally figured you for an Amiga guy. I've still got my c64 and various Amiga's gathering dust in the basement somewhere too...

 

[heySkippy]

The PCjr predated the Amiga by a few years, didn't it?

I was a Tandy Color Computer II guy right up until January 1984. The original Mac changed my whole computing world view. Since I couldn't afford one at first, I got a job in a computer store that sold Apple and the rest is history.

 

[Arshad]

The PCjr predated the Amiga by a few years, didn't it?

PCjr came out in 84, Amiga in 85.

 

[Jimbo]

One new thing that sets Macintosh apart is ThunderBolt. This is the new I/O technology developed by Apple and Intel. Peripherals are still on their way, but it looks awesome.

Here's a good article on it...

http://t-gaap.com/2011/5/5/thunderbolt-youre-so-going-to-want-this?site_locale=en



-Jim

 

[NetViper]

One new thing that sets Macintosh apart is ThunderBolt. This is the new I/O technology developed by Apple and Intel. Peripherals are still on their way, but it looks awesome.

Here's a good article on it...

http://t-gaap.com/2011/5/5/thunderbolt-youre-so-going-to-want-this?site_locale=en



-Jim

Didn't Apple have a lot of problems with Thunderbolt on launch? Is it fixed?

 

[Arshad]

Didn't Apple have a lot of problems with Thunderbolt on launch? Is it fixed?

I don't know about a lot of problems, but there were some issues related to ThunderBolt, and they've been addressed in an OS and EFI update that was posted yesterday.

 

[NetViper]

I don't know about a lot of problems, but there were some issues related to ThunderBolt, and they've been addressed in an OS and EFI update that was posted yesterday.

I had a friend that was going to get a new macbook, but he decided to wait because of thunderbold issues. I don't what they were, but it is good that it is fixed.

 

[Carguy!]

I have an Iphone 4, have also had a 3 and a 3gs and I love their phones. I have had a half dozen Ipod's and they also do a great job with those. I recently purchased a couple of MacBook Air's, one 11" and on 13" for my daughter. We both added Bootcamp and run primarily in Windows 7, they do a great job of running this O/S. I have played around with the Mac O/S and I think Windows 7 is superior in every way.

Apple makes great hardware (albeit very expensive) and also packages it very well. I feel I have the best of both worlds with my Macbook Air running Windows 7.

I have been a computer guy all my life and developed electronics and software on many hardware / software platforms. If anyone is getting a computer for their child to learn skills I also recommend a system running Windows, it is what is in 90% of the businesses and is what most employers are looking for.

As far as Thunderbolt is concerned it will be interesting to see if it takes off, with USB 3.0 I believe it isn't that necessary.

 

[tof]

If your bought a Winmobile Vistacruiser it would ask if you REALLY wanted to go somewhere three times before starting. It would sometimes stop unexpectedly and require you to shut it off and turn it back on before continuing your journey. At other times it would slow down for no apparent reason, requiring you to reorganize the passengers. Occasionally it would break down to the point where you would have to remove and reinstall the engine. Ignoring a "check engine" warning light would cause it to stop and turn blue. At this point it would be best to just donate your Winmobile to Public Television or sell it on eBay. The purchase price of the Winmobile would be a bargain compared to an iCar but the keys would cost an additional $22,000. Not to worry as free keys are readily available. Of course the use of free keys could cause your Winmobile to lurch wildly in unintended directions.

You would be able to buy all kinds of aftermarket goodies from a lot of different companies for your Winmobile but some of them would not work very well until you returned them and got a newer version. Every three to five years the controls on the dash would rearrange themselves for no apparent reason. If you wanted to carry more than one passenger you would need to buy a much more expensive Winservermobile which would weigh 6,500 pounds. Also, your passengers would each have to pay a fee to the Winmobile dealer before being allowed to ride in it.

If you purchased an iCar it would operate flawlessly. However it would cost almost twice as much as the Windowmobile and it would only work on a few highways. It would be impervious to road hazzards, but it would also be impervious to do-it-yourself work such as oil and air filter changes. Accessories and replacement parts would only be available from the iStore and would cost three times as much as comparable aftermarket goodies for a Winmobile. The iCar would only run on iGas. Many desirable aftermarket parts would simply not be available since only iParts work on the iCar. Many people would point at you and call you a “geek” or a “nerd”, but women would enjoy riding in your iCar after a rough ride in a Winmobile.

 

[NetViper]

I have an Iphone 4, have also had a 3 and a 3gs and I love their phones. I have had a half dozen Ipod's and they also do a great job with those. I recently purchased a couple of MacBook Air's, one 11" and on 13" for my daughter. We both added Bootcamp and run primarily in Windows 7, they do a great job of running this O/S. I have played around with the Mac O/S and I think Windows 7 is superior in every way.

Apple makes great hardware (albeit very expensive) and also packages it very well. I feel I have the best of both worlds with my Macbook Air running Windows 7.

I have been a computer guy all my life and developed electronics and software on many hardware / software platforms. If anyone is getting a computer for their child to learn skills I also recommend a system running Windows, it is what is in 90% of the businesses and is what most employers are looking for.

As far as Thunderbolt is concerned it will be interesting to see if it takes off, with USB 3.0 I believe it isn't that necessary.

If you primarily run windows on it, do you still get the great battery life from it?

I really like windows 7... no complaints from me.