Michelin teams to boycott Indy USGP?

[Meeyatch1]

Re: U S G P

The F1 tickets for next years race should be interesting. I can only imagine how many people will boycott that event. This was really a big blow to F1 acceptance in this country and trying to get Americans to get into the sport. So sad to see... :frown:

 

[Meeyatch1]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

...It will be interesting to see in the coming days whether the fans get their money back, although I doubt it with all the "fine print" that's written onto the back of sporting event tickets these days. You know, "the unforseen circumstances, out of our control" clause. :wink:

...and the 'Bernie factor'.....

 

[Meeyatch1]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

Do you really think they had a chicane laying around that they could set up on a moments notice?

I have one at my house that they could have borrowed....it was here when we moved in and we have not used it much.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Re: U S G P

Guess who made the cars pull out of the race? The damn FIA.

Disagree. Michelin had forbidden to use their Indianapolis version of the tires for more than 10 laps in a row with the oval part at full speed because of safety reasons (which is honest enough to prevent potential lethal crashes). The rest is just the rules, not a special FIA decision:

1. You have to use the same tires in qualifying and in race. So another tire version (originaly for Barcelona) could not come into play for the race without a punishment from the FIA. OTOH the FIA gave a signal that such punishment would have not been too harsh in this case, just hard enough to prevent similar actions in other races. And: The teams were allowed to change their tires every 10 laps without sanctions.

2. A FIA approved track layout can't be changed shortly before the race (e.g. with an additional chicane). The teams and drivers should rely on a given track layout. If a tire manufacturer is not able to build tires for a given layout and surface he didn't do his job good enough.

Conclusion: All teams would have been able to drive (most with a handicap because of their tire provider) without danger for their pilots. They didn't.
Don't bash the FIA for that. Imagine another race where Bridgestone isn't able to build competitive (oh, we had that already!) or safe tires and wants another track layout. If the FIA would have done that one time there would be a justified reason for a 2nd and 3rd time. And then they should throw all their rules into garbage because they would be worthless.

 

[jalnjr]

US Grand Prix whatta fiasco!!!!!!!!!!!!

i hate dough boys......
6 car race...

 

[Hrant]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

Do you really think they had a chicane laying around that they could set up on a moments notice?

Yes. Tony George said that was not a problem and he could do it immediately. When this was discussed earlier today, the drivers asked if they could do about 3-4 laps to get familiarized with the new course. The sad if not pathetic story is that had they decided to go to this option, it could have been resolved and done yesterday!

If I understood the details correctly, Michelin even shipped a different tire compound overnight but FIA did not allow a tire change. You would think if FIA was concnerned about safety, they would have allowed it and perhaps penalize the teams for switching by some fair mechanism. I still think the chicane with no points to the Michelin drivers was a no brainer.

 

[AaronR]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I just came home from the race. People were grabbing unopened cans from the Foster's girl and throwing them at the track, that's why they were able to make it, becuase they were heavier. I was sitting in front of turn 1. Sad day for F1, all the "throwers" near us were not Americans. Police in full riot gear near the ticket counter, I left about lap 15

 

[fannsx]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

The resurfacing of the Indy track probably had a lot to do with the Michelin tire problem. The practice on Friday was the very first time Michelin had any data on tire performance on the new track. Birdgestone may have had spme info on tire performance from Firestone from NASCAR.
In no way is BAR Honda a disgrace because of this.

I do get upset when the commentators kept saying BAR cheated from the feul tank incident. They really have to stop.

 

[Ojas]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

I do get upset when the commentators kept saying BAR cheated from the feul tank incident.

Me too. I don’t understand how anyone could read BAR Honda’s FIA Appeal Submission and conclude that the team cheated. It could not be more clear that they did not.

 

[fannsx]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I just came home from the race. People were grabbing unopened cans from the Foster's girl and throwing them at the track, that's why they were able to make it, becuase they were heavier. I was sitting in front of turn 1. Sad day for F1, all the "throwers" near us were not Americans. Police in full riot gear near the ticket counter, I left about lap 15

Actually, I am glad things did not get worse than a few bottles and cans of beer on the track. Yes that's very dangerous, but we never used the riot police. I wonder if things can be worse if this happened in other countries where F1 is significantly more popular.

 

[the nsxnut]

F1 returns to the closet in the USA!

The prestige and credibility of the US Grand Prix has been flushed down Max and Bernie's toilet. It will take years to return to the glory that this weekend began with! I am a renewing Indy USGP ticket holder, and I now question whether or not I will do so for next year!

No doubt, Michelin screwed up monumentally. But, there should be a point at which the FIA (Max) and FOM (Bernie) should step in to take mitigating measures to ensure the well being of the sport. They are greedy bastards, to punish the entire global fan base, and especially US fans and Tony George, all to make the point that 'these are the rules'...

 

[AU_NSX]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

Yes Michelin have let their teams down. Very embarrassing for them I'm sure.

I am appalled that there were only 6 cars in the race!

I believe the 3 teams should have boycotted the race as well on principle. I personally would not like to win under such circumstances. I realize Bridgestone have performed here and don't deserve to be penalised but if it had have been me in one of those 6 cars I would have boycotted the race as Barichello thought about doing.

FIA should refund ALL the money for people who paid to see that pathetic spectacle of a Grand Prix.

People who threw cans and bottles on the track should be charged with assault with a deadly weapon! There is no excuse for that!

No one made this suggestion which I thought was logical....

Next year is a one tyre make....

I think that Bridgestone should have been able to supply tyres (at Michelin's expense) to all the teams and then ALL teams would have been equal and the show could go on...

Under these circumstances, Bridgestone should be rewarded by being given the contract for the supply of tyres for next year.

Or... Michelin should have been allowed to fly-in the replacement tyres it wanted to and FIA could have approved this under an emergency amendment to the rules for safety reasons.

Lets not forget (which I think the FIA and teams have forgotten) that without the fans supporting F1 there would not be a F1 show at all!

F1 is a show for the fans and that did not happen this weekend...

Who is to blame....

1. Michelin for not providing a safe tyre for their teams
2. FIA for not being a strong enough governing body to amend the rules under such exceptional circumstances
3. Ferrari for being so litigious that the FIA are now scared of ever upsetting them...

Just my 0.02c worth…

 

[svalleynsx]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

A good observation on the tube by David Hobbs, on what should have been a triumphant day with Michelin sweeping all classes of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and then tossing it all away on today's fiasco. :redface:

 

[ADNOH]

Re: U S G P

NSX-Racer, I understand what you are saying, but when you have only SIX cars racing you gotta do something to get other cars in there. What do you think the FIA should have done and what you would have done?

 

[Banshee Wail]

Re: U S G P

I have not heard Ferrari complain of the 2005 rules that have left them lacking with Bridgestone tires. They have just tried to develope a new tire as the season progesses. Remember, teams are not allowed to change an engine, but if it lets go during qualifying they change it and take the penalty. But, they still race on Sunday. It is unactable that Michelin cries we don't have a tire that can work at Indy so change the track. BS. Michelin shod teams should have sucked it up, accepted the penalty for changing tires and raced anyway.

Thank goodness for Speed channels coverage of Le Mans. :smile:

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Random thoughts

So much for white knuckle driving (Michelin ad)

Even as a newbie/backmarker who laughingly identifies with Minardi and Jordan, I was a little embarrased by Montiero's jubilation.

Open wheel racing shoots itself in the foot one more time.

 

[W]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

I must be one of the few that think it was a fair race.

 

[W]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

I gotta disagree with a few here on BAR's two race ban. Fuel as balast? Baloney! Let's just open the doors for everyone else to have random systems on their cars which will supposedly never be used. That nitrous bottle? Balast. That fan at the back? Balast. Those jet engines? Balast.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

And what about all the people who paid to watch the real thing? Where is their right to see the race, the show/entertainment? After all, I would presume entertainment is the businees of the new F1 sport no - with all TV rights and commercializing of products?

I agree, the show must go on. All those people should come to some agreement.

I think Coultard said it best. Give the points to the Bridgerstone drivers, and let the rest of them race with the chicane even if it does not qualify as a sacntioned race because the track configuration was changed. So both the drivers enjoy a race and the crowd still gets to see a show. But no some knucklehead in Britain had to find some bureaucratic excuse to justify his salary and authority. To claim that the Micheline teams could use their other compound tires (dictated by their same FIA rule to be limited for rain conditions only) was laugingly absurd.

I disagree with Coulthard. While he maybe a gentleman, the others might not. Especially that whiney Montoya. Who knows what he decide to do out there? Maybe take out Michael like he did in Monaco last year?

Yes Michelin did not thave the goods, but in my view, FIA's intrasigence to find a compromise was the real problem. True, if Bridgestone had the same problem I don't believe we would face the same argument. But then numbers do speak when this is an equally entertainment business venture. Sometimes acknwoledging the big picture in the interest of all - especially the paying fans is as important as being "absolutely" right. The sanctioning body/FIA is the big loser for not appreciating the damage that this did to those who attended/watch. Just think how many people turned the channel to watch something esle, the loss for all those advertisers.
YMMV.

If the other teams don't care about points and just want to race, they could easily follow FIA advice by changing tires as frequesnt as they need. Maybe every 10 laps? Everybody share part of the blame. The biggest one would be Michelin as they have the data from races in previous year and fail to show up with suitable equipments. If I come to a race without proper engine, I doubt anybody else be willing to let me go out a lap in advance to give me a handicap. They dropped the ball, but the teams also didn't help as they can actually race, just won't get valuable points or win.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

If I understood the details correctly, Michelin even shipped a different tire compound overnight but FIA did not allow a tire change. You would think if FIA was concnerned about safety, they would have allowed it and perhaps penalize the teams for switching by some fair mechanism. I still think the chicane with no points to the Michelin drivers was a no brainer.

FIA do allow it but with penalty. Which the teams choose not to do.

 

[BladesNSX]

Re: Michelin teams to boycott Indy?

From what I know:

1. Michelin did fly in new tires; however, the replacement tires flown in still (according to Michelin) had the potential for the same catastrophic failures. For this reason, Michelin would not sanction their tires safe for race conditions.

2. The Michelin teams are not going to allow their drivers to race under any condition without the aforementioned sanction.

3. Yes, they should have allowed the chicane making it a Non-sanctioned race. Not doing so was a serious mistake and a lack of consideration for the entire F1 fan base.

4. I believe it was Felipe Massa that said in an interview during the race, that even with the chicane, the tires would still be exposed to the banking stress at some point prior to the chicane. Despite Michelin's approval of the chicane, some teams did not want to risk car and driver under those uncertain conditions.

5. The crowd was wrong for throwing debris on the track. There are NO excuses for this, Americans or Non-Americans alike.

6. The Bridgestone runners did the right thing by racing. There was no need for them to call the race. I commend them for what they did.

7. I want to smack the Jordan winner that came in third. He jumped for joy as if he actually faught hard for that podium position. You would think the guy won with all the other teams competing. What a Moron. I don't think I could celebrate winning under those circumstances.

 

[BladesNSX]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

All great points.

As for the two race rules violation, F1 Magazine had an aritcle form the FIA stating that BAR-Honda did know very well about the fuel containment issue, and still decided to covertly race, and not address this modification. Nevertheless, BAR-Honda has proven itself over and over. It's just difficult to see them with ZERO points in both construction/drivers points.

Don't worry, BAR-Honda is getting better as time goes by. Despite what others have said, I think Jensen Button is a good racer along with Taku. Remember the way Sato drove that Honda Last year?!?! If you can, you gotta watch last years USGP again. What a great race for Honda.

Really though, even if Honda does crappy in F1, just look at another racing series, from MotoGP to Indy. Honda does a pretty good job.

If that doesn't work, then just go take your NSX for a drive. That always cheers me up :biggrin:

 

[vtecNSX1]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

I blame the FIA. The whole 1 set of tires rule is just stupid and unsafe in my opinion.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Re: U S G P

NSX-Racer, I understand what you are saying, but when you have only SIX cars racing you gotta do something to get other cars in there. What do you think the FIA should have done and what you would have done?

Agree on your 1st point. Answer for your 1st question: FIA could or should have done nothing. Latest info I read from a Michael Schumacher interview is that he spoke with one of the Michelin drivers (no name mentioned) before the race. This driver said it would have been likely that the Michelin tires meant for Indianapolis would have failed over the long run even *with* a chicane before the fast oval part. If that is true they would have had a serious safety problem anyhow.

What I would have done? Allow tire changes for all teams whenever they wanted (with the same tire version used in qualifying of course, I'm pretty sure Ferrari would have had no veto against). Michelin had given the okay for up to 10 laps. The race could have been started with 20 cars and of course the Michelin teams would have had a big handicap because of the number of pitstops (only fair when you have chosen the wrong tire provider) but it would have been a race at least.

I would also have no problem to use this decision again when e.g. Bridgestone would have a serious safety problem at another track (maybe like Spa with Eau rouge) and Michelin doesn't. And in the long run I would opt for one single tire provider for all the teams as it was in the past. For the spectators it doesn't really matter which tire is used (or did you ever hear of a Bridgestone fan club besides the Ferrari, Mercedes etc. fan clubs?) as long as there is a real competition. This way there may be also a better comparison between chassis, drivers, aerodynamics, strategies etc. and nobody would have an excuse for bad performance (like Ferrari had with the Bridgestones).

There are several championships in the world with one single tire provider that make a good show (like the DTM).

 

[NSX-Racer]

Re: Bar-Honda is a Total Disgrace

I blame the FIA. The whole 1 set of tires rule is just stupid and unsafe in my opinion.

Disagree on the 1st point, partly agree on your 2nd - you may read my comments in this thread .