new product focus: Clutch Damper Delete & Hose Kit

[ScienceofSpeed]

You may be aware that the factory uses a damper in between the master and slave cylinder. This valve uses a flexible rubber diaphragm to reduce vibration from the clutch spinning when the driver depresses the pedal. When this diaphragm moves, less line pressure acts upon the slave cylinder, clutch fork, release bearing, and ultimately the clutch.
<a href="http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/drivetrain_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/damper_delete_hose_kit/dampertest_800.jpg">
<img border="2" src="http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/drivetrain_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/damper_delete_hose_kit/dampertest_200.jpg" width="200" height="150" align="left" hspace="5" vspace="5"></a>We performed testing of eliminating the clutch damper and the effect it had on clutch release travel. In order to accurately set up a measurement of the slave's movement, it was necessary to assemble this unit out of the car including all of the factory clutch hydraulic system. You can see the slave, hose, damper, master cylinder, and pedal assembly.

The effect of the damper was more significant than originally expected. By removing the damper, for the same amount of clutch pedal stroke, the slave travel increased .085". In addition, when tested in a running car, we found that it produced a more direct engagement feel and slightly reduced pedal effort. .085" may not sound a lot, however, at the clutch pedal, more than 3/8" of an inch was gained in pedal height. This allows aftermarket clutches with narrow release envelopes (ScienceofSpeed Sport, RPS, Clutch Masters, Comptech, Exedy, etc.) to have a much broader range of adjustment. The additional benefit is that the increase in release travel improves clutch life by reducing the amount of time that the clutch is dragging during transitioning between engaged and disengaged when the driver depresses and releases the clutch pedal. This significantly increases clutch life, especially for "street driven" vehicles which see lots of stop and go traffic which causes the most wear to clutches.

The kit includes custom made machined billet aluminum adaptors which are a direct fit for the factory slave cylinder and the factory clutch damper bracket. Unlike other hose assemblies available, it is not necessary to bend or modify the factory clutch hard line in any way. Everything fits exactly how the factory components fit. The kit also replaces the factory rubber slave hose with a stainless steel braided reinforced clutch hose. To finish it off, the kit includes a factory rubber o-ring for a complete installation.

As of today, this kit is now being included with the ScienceofSpeed Sport Clutch & Flywheel as well as the Billet Twin Carbon Clutch & Flywheel. Existing owners may upgrade to this kit for the same discounted upgrade price. The kit is also compatible with all other aftermarket pull type clutches for the NSX that use the factory slave cylinder.

For more information, please see here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...ts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/damper_delete_hose_kit/

Are you looking to keep the factory clutch damper and want to replace the hose only? Please click here.

cheers,
-- Chris

 

[huck-jai]

Paypal payment from [email protected] sent for the complete kit! Thanks!

 

[Sudesh]

Email sent Chris.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Email sent Chris.

Your NSXPrime e-mail ([email protected]) bounced. Please e-mail us directly ([email protected])

thank you,
-- Chris

 

[Sudesh]

Your NSXPrime e-mail ([email protected]) bounced. Please e-mail us directly ([email protected])

thank you,
-- Chris

Hi,

I have sent a direct email to you now.

Thanks

 

[DRIFTER]

When installing the part do you need to adjust the clutch at all or just bolt it in and bleed the clutch?

 

[dawk]

Install and bleed.

 

[scammy]

hi Chris

I am in on this, sent an email please add to my current order.
Cheers
Cam

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

When installing the part do you need to adjust the clutch at all or just bolt it in and bleed the clutch?

The position of the slave remains the same while the clutch pedal is not pressed, so if you install this and bleed, the master should not need to be touched.

However, if you want more pedal free play with your aftermarket clutch, you can adjust the master cylinder's rod (that connects to the clutch pedal) and back it off slightly (1/2 to full turn) to get more pedal free play. For example - with this kit installed, owners of our Sport Clutch can now achieve factory pedal free play while still having enough release motion to fully release the clutch when the pedal is pressed.

If you have any questions on this process, just let us know.

thank you,
-- Chris

 

[RYU]

Here's an image to help everyone out.

Chris, just to confirm the damper #24 and hose #19 right? It just bypasses the damper by connecting hard line #16 directly to the slave #11?

This looks like a well engineered product. I like the 90* fitting and the machined distribution blocks.

 

[nigel]

Chris,

What, if any, feel or advantage is there for those like me that have the OEM clutch?
The braided line is a given like brake lines.

Cheers
nigel

 

[KennethSK]

Just to make sure, if I buy this kit I don't have to adjust pedal freeplay when installing my SOS sport clutch or would you still recommend doing it?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Here's an image to help everyone out.

Chris, just to confirm the damper #24 and hose #19 right? It just bypasses the damper by connecting hard line #16 directly to the slave #11?

This looks like a well engineered product. I like the 90* fitting and the
machined distribution blocks.

Thank you. The damper delete & hose kit connects the hard line no 15 to the slave no 11.

cheers,
-- Chris

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Chris,

What, if any, feel or advantage is there for those like me that have the OEM clutch?
The braided line is a given like brake lines.

Cheers
nigel

I don't see a big advantage of this part for use with factory clutches. The factory clutch has a large release window unlike most aftermarket clutches. There will be some vibration when the clutch is depressed. However, even with the factory clutch there will be better clutch engagement feedback (Honda must have known something by eliminating the clutch damper for the NSX-R).

regards,
-- Chris

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Just to make sure, if I buy this kit I don't have to adjust pedal freeplay when installing my SOS sport clutch or would you still recommend doing it?

Yes: going directly from a factory clutch to our Sport clutch with the damper delete / hose kit should result in not needing to adjust the master cylinder. However, pedal free play should be inspected when a new clutch is installed to verify operation.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[Sudesh]

(Honda must have known something by eliminating the clutch damper for the NSX-R).

regards,
-- Chris

Where did you learn that info :wink:

Here is a quote from our Master in the UK talking about the difference, not sure if it all applies to your damper delete kit, but does apply to genuine NSX-R damperless joint that I have, and mentioned to you in my email.

While the damper will eliminate the vibration/noise through the clutch pedal from Gbox, it changes the actual bite point depending on how you depressed the pedal.

Also, the initial movement of the pedal travel is absorbed by the damper that it will require longer pedal stroke to disengage the clutch.

with Type-R setup, there is no damper in the hydraulic system and thus, the clutch is disengaged with shorter pedal stroke.

Addition to this and for better access, Type-R pedal is using lower initial pedal height. So, you can control the clutch with shorter pedal stroke and less movement of your foot from the foot-rest position comapred to the standard setup. This will allow you the quicker clutch pedal action.


I never installed just the damper less joint without the Type-R clutch pedal but if you look at the above points, you will know that there is no point in doing so. Similar to your comment above, most of the pedal stroke is wasted if you stayed with the standard pedal.
By the way, as you can imagine, it is not good to use just the Type-R pedal with standard dampened joint. Depending on the way you depress the pedal, there is a small chance that you may not fully disengage the clutch before shifting.


The hydraulic system components such as clutch master/slave/hose/pipe and most of the release folk components are the same between single and twin type clutch so you can use this setup on both clutch type.

Kaz

 

[KennethSK]

How do I place an order for these parts?

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BATMANs]

Chris,

you have an email......

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

How do I place an order for these parts?

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

For international orders: please send us an e-mail including your full name, address, and telephone number for delivery. We'll reply with a quote back including shipping.

Items are in stock, so delivery will be about 3-5 days via EMS air.

By the way, one of our customers in Orkanger, Norway recently installed a ScienceofSpeed 3.5L engine and twin turbocharger system.

-- Chris

 

[KennethSK]

For international orders: please send us an e-mail including your full name, address, and telephone number for delivery. We'll reply with a quote back including shipping.

Items are in stock, so delivery will be about 3-5 days via EMS air.

By the way, one of our customers in Orkanger, Norway recently installed a ScienceofSpeed 3.5L engine and twin turbocharger system.

-- Chris

Hello again Chris,
Are in the prosess of placing the order now.
I actually know of Frode as he is a member of Club Honda Norway, he only lives about 30 minuttes drive from where I live.
Norway is a very small country so alot of us NSX owners know each other.
I also know another good customer of your, Jan Erik who has a 2005 NSX.

 

[NSXCessive]

Hey Chris I've been having a problem with my '00 engaging/releasing from a stand still. Still running the stock single disk clutch on my SOS S/C and I sometimes need a bit of force pulling it out of gear when coming to a stop with the clutch pedal depressed. If I let go and depress a 2nd time it will go in and come out of gear with ease like butter.

The clutch isn't showing and signs of slipping yet and I did have the rare occurrence before I did the SOS S/C, now it pretty much every time I need to do press the clutch down 2 times. I recently changed both master, slave, and hose re-bleed everything it seemed to be good for a few days and started doing it again. Seems as the clutch is slightly engaged when I have the problem, if I pull it out of gear I can hear the clutch shudder very lightly. Will this damper delete help my issue at all?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Hello again Chris,
Are in the prosess of placing the order now.
I actually know of Frode as he is a member of Club Honda Norway, he only lives about 30 minuttes drive from where I live.
Norway is a very small country so alot of us NSX owners know each other.
I also know another good customer of your, Jan Erik who has a 2005 NSX.

Thank you, we'll have a reply back to you today.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Hey Chris I've been having a problem with my '00 engaging/releasing from a stand still. Still running the stock single disk clutch on my SOS S/C and I sometimes need a bit of force pulling it out of gear when coming to a stop with the clutch pedal depressed. If I let go and depress a 2nd time it will go in and come out of gear with ease like butter.

The clutch isn't showing and signs of slipping yet and I did have the rare occurrence before I did the SOS S/C, now it pretty much every time I need to do press the clutch down 2 times. I recently changed both master, slave, and hose re-bleed everything it seemed to be good for a few days and started doing it again. Seems as the clutch is slightly engaged when I have the problem, if I pull it out of gear I can hear the clutch shudder very lightly. Will this damper delete help my issue at all?

What your describing sounds like the clutch not fully releasing. When you changed the hydraulic components, do you adjust the master cylinder to make sure the pedal free play is set to factory specifications? If not, please do so. A factory clutch does not need this part to fully release - it has a much broader release envelope than aftermarket clutches. I would not recommend this to fix your problem. To verify this as the issue, you can try to shift the transmission with the engine off. It should easily go in to gear with the engine not running.

The shuddering is very unusual - this is not typical of the factory clutch, especially the later model with the dual mass flywheel. It may be possible that the clutch disc has delaminated, which can happen when the disc is worn down to the fasteners on the disc. Essentially, the clutch disc "doubles up" on itself when the liner breaks off, and the clutch can not fully disengage when the pedal is fully depressed because of the additional thickness.

Try the master cylinder adjustment first. If the pedal free play is within factory range, and the transmission shifts fine with the engine off, the clutch is probably needing to be replaced.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[NSXCessive]

What your describing sounds like the clutch not fully releasing. When you changed the hydraulic components, do you adjust the master cylinder to make sure the pedal free play is set to factory specifications? If not, please do so. A factory clutch does not need this part to fully release - it has a much broader release envelope than aftermarket clutches. I would not recommend this to fix your problem. To verify this as the issue, you can try to shift the transmission with the engine off. It should easily go in to gear with the engine not running.

The shuddering is very unusual - this is not typical of the factory clutch, especially the later model with the dual mass flywheel. It may be possible that the clutch disc has delaminated, which can happen when the disc is worn down to the fasteners on the disc. Essentially, the clutch disc "doubles up" on itself when the liner breaks off, and the clutch can not fully disengage when the pedal is fully depressed because of the additional thickness.

Try the master cylinder adjustment first. If the pedal free play is within factory range, and the transmission shifts fine with the engine off, the clutch is probably needing to be replaced.

regards,
-- Chris

Ok thanks for the troubleshooting suggestions Chirs I will check with the Engine off when it occurs again and see what the result is. We never adjusted the master's free play left it as is from the OEM setting but this is something we can check as well. We definitely had an internal leaking Master/Slave as we found dark grit mixed in with the fluid most likely from the seals inside. Car is well taken care of fluid gets flushed every season I guess +10years and 30k later isn't bad for it lasting this long. Maybe I also need to try a re-bleeding of the system one more time to make sure there is no air trapped inside. If all else fails and the clutch has started delaminating then I guess I will be in the market for a new clutch in the near future.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Ok thanks for the troubleshooting suggestions Chirs I will check with the Engine off when it occurs again and see what the result is. We never adjusted the master's free play left it as is from the OEM setting but this is something we can check as well. We definitely had an internal leaking Master/Slave as we found dark grit mixed in with the fluid most likely from the seals inside. Car is well taken care of fluid gets flushed every season I guess +10years and 30k later isn't bad for it lasting this long. Maybe I also need to try a re-bleeding of the system one more time to make sure there is no air trapped inside. If all else fails and the clutch has started delaminating then I guess I will be in the market for a new clutch in the near future.

Sounds good.

If you changed the master cylinder, it's likely the rod length isn't the same as the one off the car (the rod is a part of the master cylinder, and gets changed when you change the master cylinder). This is likely your problem. As well, if there is air in the system, it will definitely not achieve proper release since some of the hydraulic pressure will be going to compress the air bubbles. When we bleed the hydraulic system, we will suck fluid through the system using our bleeding tool then do a final bleed by manually pumping the pedal to make sure the last bit of air has been removed. I'm sure that check both points above will fix your problem.

-- Chris