Now we are almost sufficiently off topic... In a short while when we're talking about caffienated beer or rare minerals exploration on the moon, we'll be able to look back and consider this another NSXPrime "Help!! Should I buy an NSX or a Ford Fiesta?" thread success.
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NSX, dodge viper, e46 M3 convertible or S2000?
- Thread starter plpham21
- Start date
We already have one guy shoving in the V8 from the C6 Z06 into his nsx. It's CRAZY wild.
Hey Batman, did you ever hear about guys mixing in some 2 stroke oil into their RX7 fuel to help with the apex seals? My bestfriend's exbf did that with his NA one. Said it was to help the seals.
And it is mentioned P2 is on a budget, not that he's poor. So the 30k is to initially buy the car, and I'm assuming he can afford the required maintenance that goes with it. Buy the viper, I bet it's LOADS of stupid fun with the monster torque. I hear with the 6th gear, highway mileage isn't so bad either.
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Koolaid, you're right...I am on a budget, but if there's a car which I really REALLY like, and if I don't have the immediate funds (beyond 30k), I'll wait, sell another house, make another 10-15k and be patient enough to get the car I truly want. Thing is, I have an itch to buy right NOW, so therefore, my cash budget is 30k. All you guys have been giving really great advice though...thanks again for all your personal feedback, esp Tbrom :smile:
I've already test drove a 92 nsx from a small dealership which had a messed up clutch, and VERY POOR brakes. Sales guy said the clutch could still run another year, all while I was working diligently to catch onto 1 and 2nd gear.(lol) He also said weak brakes were common on the early model NsX's...I wasn't too impressed to say the least, but the acceleration and engine sound was phenomenal!
The s2k is indeed an agile car...lacks power...but has a solid chassis for a convertible, and felt really light...I think a supercharger would be perfect....
Haven't drove the M3 yet, nor the Viper. I actually walked into a dealership one day asking to test drive the VIPER, but they refused...saying I had to buy before drive...haha...I even had my bank statements at the time proving I had the money, so why not a test drive? Those jerks...at SouthCoast Acura in Costa Mesa CA...After they refused a test drive, I decided to walk and not waste anymore time, the salesguy got mad and wanted to fight me...haha, how professional is that ??
Thanks again for all your feedback ! Somehow I gotta figure a way to test drive the M3 and Viper.
BTW, the NSX still stands on top of my list for it's exclusivity, practicality, and exotic looks. But at the end of the day, if I wanted to just get a fun weekend car, not break the bank, and take a long vacation in Thailand...I'd get the s2k if you catch my drift...haha
-p2
I've already test drove a 92 nsx from a small dealership which had a messed up clutch, and VERY POOR brakes. Sales guy said the clutch could still run another year, all while I was working diligently to catch onto 1 and 2nd gear.(lol) He also said weak brakes were common on the early model NsX's...I wasn't too impressed to say the least, but the acceleration and engine sound was phenomenal!
The s2k is indeed an agile car...lacks power...but has a solid chassis for a convertible, and felt really light...I think a supercharger would be perfect....
Haven't drove the M3 yet, nor the Viper. I actually walked into a dealership one day asking to test drive the VIPER, but they refused...saying I had to buy before drive...haha...I even had my bank statements at the time proving I had the money, so why not a test drive? Those jerks...at SouthCoast Acura in Costa Mesa CA...After they refused a test drive, I decided to walk and not waste anymore time, the salesguy got mad and wanted to fight me...haha, how professional is that ??
Thanks again for all your feedback ! Somehow I gotta figure a way to test drive the M3 and Viper.
BTW, the NSX still stands on top of my list for it's exclusivity, practicality, and exotic looks. But at the end of the day, if I wanted to just get a fun weekend car, not break the bank, and take a long vacation in Thailand...I'd get the s2k if you catch my drift...haha
-p2
I have heard of this practice.
The purpose of this is to help reduce apex seal wear and/or free up more power buy lubricating the combustion chamber walls. It doesn't have much, if any effect on detonation which is what kills most engines. Apex seals are the most suseptable (sp?).
Rotary engines can actually generate and handle 800rwhp in a tiny 1.3 liter engine like Abel's alchohol FD, but it can't take poor tuning.
Most people with the FD like to take short cuts or monkey tune their cars.
Sounds like an impulse buy. I say don't buy anything and collect the cash until you figure out what you really want. Even if you don't end up with something, cash in your pocket is better than cash stored in ALMOST any car. Really got an itch to buy something (I go through the same thing), buy something cheaper. Maybe a sportbike. It'll scratch most any itch for a LONG time while costing ALOT less.
I think what you need is an unpractical and reliable weekend car. I would vote for a viper. 30K you can get in a gen II which I think is the best looking viper. Gen II RT/10 is very reliable. I have my 00 gts/acr 4 years now without problem -- well.. a shock rebuild but that only happen to ACR -- given that I've driven it only 8K miles 
. I have the supercharger on it for a year now and still run flawlessly. My last bimmer (awhile go) was a nightmare (96 740iL), after that I swear I will never buy a used BMW again. One day I want a widebody NSX too... Back to the topic, I don't think you can go wrong with either an NSX or a Viper.
. I have the supercharger on it for a year now and still run flawlessly. My last bimmer (awhile go) was a nightmare (96 740iL), after that I swear I will never buy a used BMW again. One day I want a widebody NSX too... Back to the topic, I don't think you can go wrong with either an NSX or a Viper.
8k was a SHOCK rebuild
You are looking at three totally different cars, REALLY DIFFERENT!!!! But all I would say easily out of that line up. If you want in-your-face power from the door or showroom floor Viper SRT-10 is it. Not enough power? Just slap on a Supercharger and with only 5-6psi of boost you will be putting down 750-800rwhp overnight. The biggest deal is that you will be doing all of that on PUMP GAS and stock engine internals. Look for 2005-06 years.
But I do have to say, if your driving experience has not brought you the 450hp++ high performance cars. You dont want to learn on a VIPER. World-class and proven race car handling on the track in Nburg beating the ZR-1. A race car Hand-built for the streets. Viper will get you in trouble (DEAD)fast, if you have not been around High-HP sports cars as the other cars you are comparing it to.. Viper is a Order only car from brand new from the Dealer. And used Vipers, if you can find one. From 1992 to 2009 current day only alittle more than 25,000 Vipers has been made in this world. They wont let you test-drive a limited produced sportscar. E46 M3 (I owned one)on the other hand dealer will let you testdrive that all-day and night because that is a pretty tame car in comparison.
JUST my $0.02
But I do have to say, if your driving experience has not brought you the 450hp++ high performance cars. You dont want to learn on a VIPER. World-class and proven race car handling on the track in Nburg beating the ZR-1. A race car Hand-built for the streets. Viper will get you in trouble (DEAD)fast, if you have not been around High-HP sports cars as the other cars you are comparing it to.. Viper is a Order only car from brand new from the Dealer. And used Vipers, if you can find one. From 1992 to 2009 current day only alittle more than 25,000 Vipers has been made in this world. They wont let you test-drive a limited produced sportscar. E46 M3 (I owned one)on the other hand dealer will let you testdrive that all-day and night because that is a pretty tame car in comparison.
JUST my $0.02
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Yeah it was just a shock rebuild. RT/10 has different shocks and I haven't heard of any problem at all. There're many knowledgeable folks at viperclub.org. You can get more info from there. To my limited knowledge and experience, vipers are a very simple and raw machine, probably too simple to go wrong, and have lots of unusable HP for a driver like me but it's just fun.
I have owned or own currently all you are talking about and Viper clearly stands out. And its not because I have a Viper but I have owned all in performance order, up to a Viper SRT-10. If you want a racecar for the streets get a Viper.
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My advice is DRIVE the Viper before you buy it. And drive it objectively. In the end, it isnt bench racing and BS numbers on a forum when you are actually buying the thing and then living with it.
I always wanted a Viper and spent most of this summer looking at and testing them and hanging out on VCA (had been a while since I had lurked there).
In the end, as cool as I think the Viper is, there is just no way I would want to own and regularly drive one. I would love to head down to Philly and hang with Immanuel so I could ride shotgun in his But for me, I had to admit that its the kind of car I want a buddy to own.
It is really in no way comparable to the NSX at all. And thats a neutral statement. There is no "better" or "worse". Its just that other than 4 wheels an engine and a steering wheel, there are almost no areas where they are similar.
The tempting thing will be that there are a ton of Vipers out there and they are cheap as hell (even for PRISTINE ones). I was going to be looking at getting into a perfectly sorted 2003 SRT-10 with 19,000 miles with aftermarket exhaust from John at Roanoke (easily one of the only truly fantastic dealers on earth and hands down one of the ONLY genuine Viper dealers) and we were talking about like $42k. With the NSX you're looking at maybe like a really nice 97 for that money or a high mile or rough newer one. You wont get near a facelift car.
So the Viper is cheap as all hell. Still... DONT let that influence you UNLESS you drive it and love it. If you do, you arei in a GREAT spot b/c this i definitely the time to buy a Viper SRT.
BTW - I say completely forget the M3. You already have a 5 series DD and the M3 is another DD. As a weekend "fun" car it makes no sense.
I always wanted a Viper and spent most of this summer looking at and testing them and hanging out on VCA (had been a while since I had lurked there).
In the end, as cool as I think the Viper is, there is just no way I would want to own and regularly drive one. I would love to head down to Philly and hang with Immanuel so I could ride shotgun in his
But for me, I had to admit that its the kind of car I want a buddy to own.It is really in no way comparable to the NSX at all. And thats a neutral statement. There is no "better" or "worse". Its just that other than 4 wheels an engine and a steering wheel, there are almost no areas where they are similar.
The tempting thing will be that there are a ton of Vipers out there and they are cheap as hell (even for PRISTINE ones). I was going to be looking at getting into a perfectly sorted 2003 SRT-10 with 19,000 miles with aftermarket exhaust from John at Roanoke (easily one of the only truly fantastic dealers on earth and hands down one of the ONLY genuine Viper dealers) and we were talking about like $42k. With the NSX you're looking at maybe like a really nice 97 for that money or a high mile or rough newer one. You wont get near a facelift car.
So the Viper is cheap as all hell. Still... DONT let that influence you UNLESS you drive it and love it. If you do, you arei in a GREAT spot b/c this i definitely the time to buy a Viper SRT.
BTW - I say completely forget the M3. You already have a 5 series DD and the M3 is another DD. As a weekend "fun" car it makes no sense.
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mlambert890, You are welcomed anytime to ride along. I do have to say the Viper is NOT a daily driver. I mean you can do it but........... When I say it is a racecar it is a racecar allowed on the public streets. It is made to be driven fast, really fast. The Viper wakes up around 100-140mph and stay wide awake well past those speeds. I had it up to 165mph shifting into 5th gear and had to let off the gas pedal. It scared me at that speed because it still was quick and voilently acelling past 180 in a second if I stayed on it with me still pushed back in the seat. The viper srt-10 is a true beast (all BIG-Liter V10 engine on four wheels) it will get to 200mph very,very fast. PERIOD. And you dont need miles to do it. It will get to 200mph well under a standing mile. And thats the kind of beast it is. As far as being cheap, well the economy allows you to jumping into a Viper cheaper than sticker. But I really can say that for Lamborghini right now.... You can now jump into a Used late model Gallardo for around 100k on the mark now days. So everything dropped nowdays so it is a great time to buy anything. You can find good 2003 SRT-10 in the low to mid 40k. But a good 2005-06 Viper is still in the mid-high 50k.
And really, any used car over 40k is not cheap!!!!!! So I wont say you can get into Vipers "cheap"........... You mite can buy into one cheaper but it is still an expensive car to own. Anything goes wrong with the VIPER you cant just drive it up to a Dodge dealer to have them work on it (THEY WON'T!!!!!!!). They will bring in a specialty Viper mechanic. Parts for Viper are not cheap. And have a small accident/crash with the Viper, with its Carbon Fiber inner structure attached to the frame (Viper has a true frame)and the Fiberglass outter structure. The Viper will instantly tottal out with any insurance company because in parts the VIPER is a 100k quality hand-built american car. That why alot of insurance companies wont carry a Viper or that will give you super-dupper high rate.
ALSO you are also buying into a car that is on the same performance level and beyond as 150k to 500k sports cars like the Lamborghini and Ferrari,Zonda, GT40, etc, etc.......
Here is a fun Video of the ole 3rd-gen 2003 505Hp SRT-10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgCrOFnvdeQ
Another video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcsYuaF6Wuw
Cant sleep on the 2nd-gen modded Vipers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=111IPWAin1s
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL5zJEhZjAU
. And thats the kind of beast it is. As far as being cheap, well the economy allows you to jumping into a Viper cheaper than sticker. But I really can say that for Lamborghini right now.... You can now jump into a Used late model Gallardo for around 100k on the mark now days. So everything dropped nowdays so it is a great time to buy anything. You can find good 2003 SRT-10 in the low to mid 40k. But a good 2005-06 Viper is still in the mid-high 50k. And really, any used car over 40k is not cheap!!!!!! So I wont say you can get into Vipers "cheap"........... You mite can buy into one cheaper but it is still an expensive car to own. Anything goes wrong with the VIPER you cant just drive it up to a Dodge dealer to have them work on it (THEY WON'T!!!!!!!). They will bring in a specialty Viper mechanic. Parts for Viper are not cheap. And have a small accident/crash with the Viper, with its Carbon Fiber inner structure attached to the frame (Viper has a true frame)and the Fiberglass outter structure. The Viper will instantly tottal out with any insurance company because in parts the VIPER is a 100k quality hand-built american car. That why alot of insurance companies wont carry a Viper or that will give you super-dupper high rate.
ALSO you are also buying into a car that is on the same performance level and beyond as 150k to 500k sports cars like the Lamborghini and Ferrari,Zonda, GT40, etc, etc.......
Here is a fun Video of the ole 3rd-gen 2003 505Hp SRT-10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgCrOFnvdeQ
Another video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcsYuaF6Wuw
Cant sleep on the 2nd-gen modded Vipers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=111IPWAin1s
Last video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL5zJEhZjAU
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I am not sure where this type of miss-information comes from. The Viper should not be lumped in with other Chrysler crap; it is a hand built sports car. The Viper is very reliable, and the cost of running one is no more than that of the NSX. As for insurance my NSX is more expensive to insure than my Viper and the NSX is older.
I am not sure how you can compare a Viper to a S2000. You really need to drive both as aside from the S2000 looking like a ¾ scale SRT-10, they are nothing a like.
Manny,
You are a Viper lover for sure! Just for the record the cast pistons in the Gen 3 only like 650 wheel. Guys have gone over 700wheel with them but guys have also blown up motors. Just slapping a Paxton on will in no way get 800wheel. To get a reliable 850wheel + on pump, the pistons need to be changed and a tuner Super Charger package is needed. This costs substantially more than the $7k Paxton kit.
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Very true and a very fair point. On forums we often lose perspective on this stuff. $40k is a LOT for ANY car really, let alone a used car. And ALL of these cars are a lot more to run then a normal vehicle.
I should correct my statement by saying the Viper is currently a very good value, IMO.
Like the way things have gone economically and the way they have impacted the marques, I actually DONT consider the Corvette a good value any longer. Of course this is also relative. If your budget doesnt stretch into the upper 30s (or if you need a daily driver or need an auto or just hate the Viper
), then the Vette is the best bargain ever.But to me, when an SRT-10 is low 40s and Gen 2s can be had in the 30s, a $22k C5 Z06 or even a $48k C6 Z06 just doesnt seem exciting.
This is the kind of thing that cant be appreciated bench racing. One needs to sit in these cars. If you want a TORQUE MONSTER that just has *road presence* beyond belief, the Viper is *THE* car on these shores. The only cars that I can think of that really match it in the areas for which it was designed are the TVRs and you cant get them here.
Is that what your tuner told you? They all say that for insurance for themselfs.
You can get about 800whp out of a stock viper srt-10 engine. WE have done it to a buddies car as a project and "then" I worked the motor. I AM A ENGINEER/TUNER..... Now to do it reliable, YES!!!!! you forge pistons and rods,bearings, etc. But the internal engine parts for a Viper is the only cheaper thing on a Viper.
Aaron, I am not a Viper lover but a sports car lover and Tuner that respects the Viper as other cars I have owned and not owned and driven.
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This is true. Of course since it seems that a huge number of normal people cant drive even the stock SRT without killing themselves (check this insane insurance stats on the SRT), one really has to question the sanity of bringing these cars to still MORE levels of power.
To me, the Viper is already at the edge of sanity and beyond what 99.999999999999999999999999% of the population will realistically be able to full exploit in their lifetime
Manny,
I take tuner input with a grain of salt. I installed and tuned my SCer as that is a big part of the hobby for me. I am not looking to argue but rather make sure we do not spread miss-information. I just don’t want people thinking they can run out and buy a SRT-10 slap a 7k Paxton on it and hit 800wheel reliably. If you are a tuner than the Paxton you installed is no doubt a tuner kit. By tuner kit I mean having things that are not in the Paxton box.
Calling you a Viper lover was not meant as an insult.
I love my Viper and am not ashamed to say it even on a Honda board.
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Like said you just can't compare them the NSX is way better in nearly everything although vipers do have some nice sides.
The M3 is a great car although I'd prefer the S2000 which is a great drivers car.
From that list I'd choose the NSX then the M3 or S2k.
Manny,
I take tuner input with a grain of salt. I installed and tuned my SCer as that is a big part of the hobby for me. I am not looking to argue but rather make sure we do not spread miss-information. I just don’t want people thinking they can run out and buy a SRT-10 slap a 7k Paxton on it and hit 800wheel reliably. If you are a tuner than the Paxton you installed is no doubt a tuner kit. By tuner kit I mean having things that are not in the Paxton box.
Calling you a Viper lover was not meant as an insult.
In 2002 I developed a full Turbo system for the RX7. I have a 2006 Aston Martin DB9 V12 sitting in my parking lot with that money made. Fabspeed wants me the help them develop a twin rear remote turbo system that I am designing for the viper SRT-10 that my current project. What I posted earlier was my experience with tuning at the time of delveloping. I was designing a twin root type supercharger from a Jaguar for the Viper as we were testing the Paxton kit and its findings. I like building things from scratch.
I am not mis-informing anyone I am just telling them the real truth. Because most onwers not work on their cars and actually get mis-informed from the tuner/mechanic. The truth is any Viper made after 99 has Cast pistons and is limited to 750 HP even with a added water/meth injection kit. Anything over those levels you run the "risk" of damaging the motor. The key word is "RISK". I dont wont the mis-informing fact that the Viper motors are not strong around these levels because they are. Now to have security and reliability "YES" forged pistons are in order as I said before in my posting. And you have to be careful what kind of cam you put in these motors. They get "fussy" if you dont use the proper cam and tune.
No insult taken but thanks. I made my hobby into a good proven private business in 1999 around doing this stuff. What year is your Viper?
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If you want a relatively inexpensive, extremely fun car, the S2000 is awesome. It isn't extremely fast in a straight line (not from zero anyway), but a Vortech SC will give it the same 1/4 mile as the M3 and NSX. A simple turbo kit on a stock motor at about 7.5 psi can put you in the high 12's. I personally wouldn't want the complications/electronics, etc. of the M3. I know nothing about the Viper.
The 04+ s2k's have more torque and deliver it sooner in the RPM band. If you get an 06+ (after the electronic throttle control), you can add a Toda header and T1R test pipe, along with the Hondata reflash, and gain 20-25 hp and tq. A 70mm single exhaust can add another 10hp.
The 04+ s2k's have more torque and deliver it sooner in the RPM band. If you get an 06+ (after the electronic throttle control), you can add a Toda header and T1R test pipe, along with the Hondata reflash, and gain 20-25 hp and tq. A 70mm single exhaust can add another 10hp.
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