NSX Lightning Lap

[fastaussie]

Aussie - it's likely the driver of the NSX & GT350R was different from the rest of the high performance/Supercars. They really only have 1 decent driver. That's my gripe with the whole thing, people blindly view the results as fact when there is so much fundamentally wrong with the whole procedure.

that really defies all common sense, but so does a president Trump. at the very least, i would expect the best driver to handle all of the fastest cars.

Its almost as useless as going to a track day and arguing a Miata is outright faster than a given supercar because that's what the time sheets show.

yet there are many that will... :biggrin:

Everyone seems to think the NSX time is disappointing, yet which of the cars that have the faster times in the C&D article would you actually buy?

Vette? Really?!
GT3 RS for $300,000. Ouch!
488GTB for $350,000. Ouch!
ACR? Really?!

That leaves us with the 570S which appears to provide a good combination of price, exotic looks, and performance. The only real downside is McLaren reliability and number of service centers.

if those times are relative to each other, 3 and 5 seconds a lap is massively disappointing. to put that time difference in perspective, after 3 or 4 laps, the NSX pilot would not even be able to see the McLaren or Ferrari.

i can say with all honesty, the purposely raw and unrefined 570S is by far the funnest (stock road) car i've ever driven...

The cheapest 570S currently on cars.com is $193K, so $20K more than my car.

get it! trade in that heap now... :wink:

 

[chrisn]

Not exotic enough. I see them all the time on the road, even in locales where expensive sports cars are uncommon

Really? Maybe Corvettes in general, but I very very rarely see other C7 Z06's on the road in the SF Bay Area. I guess I'm into "good" and "different" more than "exotic." I was never a Corvette fan *at all* until the C7-- and the C7Z06 was just too good to pass up. I'm keeping it in the stable even after the NSX joins. In my mind, the NSX is also a "relative bargain," much like the (early) GT-R and the C7Z06.

Anyway, for me, I'm not into "monogamy" when it comes to cars-- why not try several nice ones?

Bringing it back to the Lighting Lap, I am totally fine with the NSX being merely "in the mix" and not the absolute fastest way to get around a circuit. That's not why I got the NSX.

 

[BB]

Really? Maybe Corvettes in general, but I very very rarely see other C7 Z06's on the road in the SF Bay Area. I guess I'm into "good" and "different" more than "exotic." I was never a Corvette fan *at all* until the C7-- and the C7Z06 was just too good to pass up. I'm keeping it in the stable even after the NSX joins. In my mind, the NSX is also a "relative bargain," much like the (early) GT-R and the C7Z06.

Anyway, for me, I'm not into "monogamy" when it comes to cars-- why not try several nice ones?

Bringing it back to the Lighting Lap, I am totally fine with the NSX being merely "in the mix" and not the absolute fastest way to get around a circuit. That's not why I got the NSX.

I don't see many Z06's on the road either. I was referring to the C7 in general. Non car people usually can't tell the difference between Z06 and other models-- they're all just Corvettes to most people. But the NSX is like driving a unicorn-- non car people have no idea what it is while those in the know see it as a legendary car. The dichotomy between the car being totally unknown and a legend creates a sense of timelessness to the car. This makes the NSX a better car for long term monogamy relative to the Corvette.

 

[fastaussie]

But the NSX is like driving a unicorn-- non car people have no idea what it is while those in the know see it as a legendary car. The dichotomy between the car being totally unknown and a legend creates a sense of timelessness to the car. This makes the NSX a better car for long term monogamy relative to the Corvette.

i reckon more so with the original...

 

[BB]

i reckon more so with the original...

I was actually referring to the original when I wrote that, so I agree.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

that really defies all common sense, but so does a president Trump. at the very least

LOL great point, Fast Aussie! We may be at the precipice of losing our democracy but at least the car world is on fire!

Did anybody notice the curb weights of the R8 vs. the NSX? Only 83 lbs. apart. For everyone out there that complained about how heavy the NSX is this, what say you now?

And the NSX crushed it on the climbing esses hitting in the top three of all time. So it did pretty well though I would have liked it to do a bit better.

 

[stuntman]

Just watched the in-car videos. Aaron drove the NSX and he and Tony are probably fly a few seconds off KC, who is their only decent driver who works the car at the limit (probably within a couple seconds of a pro).

 

[chrisn]

Just watched the in-car videos. Aaron drove the NSX and he and Tony are probably fly a few seconds off KC, who is their only decent driver who works the car at the limit (probably within a couple seconds of a pro).

Interesting. Do we know which cars KC (the fast one) drove?

 

[stuntman]

They're in all the in-car videos. Pretty much all of the fast cars.

 

[kendallj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYVkAQ8dKYY

 

[N Spec]

In light of the new info, this is disappointing on a controlled/consistent point of argument. Still, the times are pretty impressive for a non-pro drivers.

 

[G.Irish]

Just watched the in-car videos. Aaron drove the NSX and he and Tony are probably fly a few seconds off KC, who is their only decent driver who works the car at the limit (probably within a couple seconds of a pro).

Eh, KC missed several apexes on some of his laps (missed T1 with the M4 GTS) and had a couple of bobbles with the 488. Also doesn't look as strong as Tony at the top of the esses.

On the NSX lap he only used half of the track at the exit of turn 1 and had a couple of missed apexes in the infield. Definitely a good amount of time left on the table there.

 

[stuntman]

Eh, KC missed several apexes on some of his laps (missed T1 with the M4 GTS) and had a couple of bobbles with the 488. Also doesn't look as strong as Tony at the top of the esses.

On the NSX lap he only used half of the track at the exit of turn 1 and had a couple of missed apexes in the infield. Definitely a good amount of time left on the table there.

KC at least drives the car at the limit in most of the curves while Tony really doesn't push it, especially on the infield section.

Missing the apex in 1 probably didn't hurt his time much more than a tenth or two and I typically don't track out of T1 more than half track in anything I drive. It's a waste of time and does not set you up well for T2-3.

Aaron drove the NSX, and he's not as fast as KC either.

 

[neuronbob]

NSX places 17th of all time LL showings (out of 201, therefore top 10% of all cars tested in LL) and people are complaining? Sheeeeesh. I'd say it did pretty well for a car with newish tech.

I'm one of those who'd buy a Corvette Grand Sport, however, it's so much bang for the buck that it's not even funny....especially when they hit the used market.

 

[G.Irish]

KC at least drives the car at the limit in most of the curves while Tony really doesn't push it, especially on the infield section.

KC is going faster through some of the turns, but he's sliding and correcting more. With a car like the 570S it's probably hard to go fast without having to fight to keep the wheels in line, but on other cars that'll slow you down.

Missing the apex in 1 probably didn't hurt his time much more than a tenth or two and I typically don't track out of T1 more than half track in anything I drive. It's a waste of time and does not set you up well for T2-3.

Not saying that one missed apex screwed the whole lap, but that was one of a couple of missed apexes.

Look at where the NSX ends up at the end of T1. I've never seen a fast guy come through there and end up track right like that. The higher horsepower cars tend to apex a bit later and straighten out the exit so they don't get to left side of track until a bit up the road, but they're still using at least 80% of the track width through there.

Either way, C&D needs to have professional drivers to do this properly. Maybe have the editors drive to give their impressions but let the pros set the fast laps. Honda can fly in Alonso :biggrin:

 

[docjohn]

stuntman has the credentials...and knows vir well:wink:

 

[stuntman]

KC is going faster through some of the turns, but he's sliding and correcting more. With a car like the 570S it's probably hard to go fast without having to fight to keep the wheels in line, but on other cars that'll slow you down.

...because he's actually pushing the limit of the cars. His corrections are pretty quick and not that large and thus is able to drive each car a few seconds faster than the other journalists (which is my complaint of the entire event, there is no consistencies in the test procedures. If KC drove every car, the results of most of the cars in the field would be much quicker). Is he the best driver in the world? No, but he's one of the better journalists out there and he's probably within a couple seconds of a pro. Pretty respectable compared to the rest of C&D's journalists.

Not saying that one missed apex screwed the whole lap, but that was one of a couple of missed apexes.

Look at where the NSX ends up at the end of T1. I've never seen a fast guy come through there and end up track right like that. The higher horsepower cars tend to apex a bit later and straighten out the exit so they don't get to left side of track until a bit up the road, but they're still using at least 80% of the track width through there.

Either way, C&D needs to have professional drivers to do this properly. Maybe have the editors drive to give their impressions but let the pros set the fast laps. Honda can fly in Alonso :biggrin:

The amount KC missed apexes isn't huge and doesn't hurt his lap time. Missing an apex by a foot or two while at the limit is probably faster than the other journalists on the right line but well below the limit.

I keep a tight line like the NSX did in T1, straightening out the exit and trying to stay near the second (grey) apex curbing, but when driving at the limit, the car will drift out to mid-track shortly after the grey curbing. As I said before, Aaron (who drove the NSX) and Tony are a few seconds off of KC.

I agree they should use Pros and just let the journalists comment on their subjective feedback on the handling. But everyone has an ego and wants to be apart of the results so I doubt that will ever happen in LL.

 

[fastaussie]

...because he's actually pushing the limit of the cars. His corrections are pretty quick and not that large and thus is able to drive each car a few seconds faster than the other journalists (which is my complaint of the entire event, there is no consistencies in the test procedures. If KC drove every car, the results of most of the cars in the field would be much quicker). Is he the best driver in the world? No, but he's one of the better journalists out there and he's probably within a couple seconds of a pro. Pretty respectable compared to the rest of C&D's journalists.

stuntman is absolutely right, most car or motorbike magazine journalists are not very fast. i was completely shocked at how slow the EIC of one of the major car mags is, it was rather unbelievable. and it was once said to me when i first did some hot laps for a comparison test for one of the major motorbike magazines that, "they're writers, not riders" describing the staff editors.

it's important to be a good driver to push each car to its potential, but it's much more important to have the same driver/level of driving ability to evaluate each car individually. otherwise you're testing the driver, not the car. so this test seems to be a total waste of time if it's conducted as it appears to be...

 

[kendallj]

Total newby here in respect of driving cars on a track, but I watched and enjoyed all the cars tested and found it quite fascinating. I did notice that some cars were run during what appeared dry, sunny conditions, while others including the NSX were run with mist in the background, and clearly moisture accumulated on the camera lens mounted on the exterior of some cars. I have no idea how much that would have influenced times. None-the-less it was interesting considering the number of cars involved, and no doubt took some planning and organisation. But intuitively I sensed so many variables were in the mix to effect times, and therefore accurate comparisons would have been quite impossible. Fun but not particularly informative.

 

[fastaussie]

i bought the magazine last night, so i'll read it today to get a sense of the entire picture and each car's strengths and weaknesses. you can still compare the different aspects and character traits of the cars relative to each other. nothing wrong with that.

with so many cars and at these types of tests, they may shoot video and still photography all day long and at differing times. but the actual hot lapping , ahem, excuse me, lightning lapping, must be done with the same driver/same atmospheric conditions for any sort of legitimacy...

 

[docjohn]

lightening lap is born out of the medias need to create a brand...they should have thor drive

 

[G.Irish]

with so many cars and at these types of tests, they may shoot video and still photography all day long and at differing times. but the actual hot lapping , ahem, excuse me, lightning lapping, must be done with the same driver/same atmospheric conditions for any sort of legitimacy...

This. I do think that maybe this time around the flak about the driving may be enough to convince them to modify the format for next time. At the very least show the journo lap, and the pro lap, and show weather conditions as well. Might not be able to get all of the hot laps in the same conditions but they should try, and they should note the conditions either way. This year was an improvement in that they released the videos and they published all of the tire specs used.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

Total newby here in respect of driving cars on a track, but I watched and enjoyed all the cars tested and found it quite fascinating. I did notice that some cars were run during what appeared dry, sunny conditions, while others including the NSX were run with mist in the background, and clearly moisture accumulated on the camera lens mounted on the exterior of some cars. I have no idea how much that would have influenced times. None-the-less it was interesting considering the number of cars involved, and no doubt took some planning and organisation. But intuitively I sensed so many variables were in the mix to effect times, and therefore accurate comparisons would have been quite impossible. Fun but not particularly informative.

Great point kendallj! I was thinking the same thing.

- - - Updated - - -

with so many cars and at these types of tests, they may shoot video and still photography all day long and at differing times. but the actual hot lapping , ahem, excuse me, lightning lapping, must be done with the same driver/same atmospheric conditions for any sort of legitimacy...

I wondered the same thing but these videos in general and the NSX's video in particular have the clock running and the lap time corresponds with the number they are saying was the best (2:50.2). So they are the actual LL, not just a sample of video footage. So the NSX's actual LL video has the fog and seemingly damp track conditions.

Is it possible that the damp conditions cooled the air and actually benefited the NSX due to increased air density?

 

[fastaussie]

standby...

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

standby...

...we're waiting... lol

On a slightly un-related topic. That shot you attached has the NSX looking amazing. The angle is very complementary for the NSX's design but perhaps even more importantly, the front looks fantastic with the M4's wing blocking the bottom portion of the front making the car look far more sleek. It almost looks planned lol.