Any opinions on how they stack up against each other speakers and amps and subs???
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opinions on JL Audio Vs Diamond Audio
- Thread starter blackcat
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Without taking anything away from JL, b/c they make very nice equipment, I would say that Diamond Audio would equal or best JL in every category.blackcat said:
Entry level to High end and especially warranty. Diamond is so confident in their amplifiers that they will soon be offering a lifetime warranty. They give a 3 year warranty with everything else as long as it is installed by an authorized dealer. There will be a very nice diamond audio nsx plug and play package to be offered by an NSX vendor very soon. You wont be disappointed. :wink:
hi sndsoul, i'm upgrading my stero now, going to take out the stock head unit and put in an alpine deck. i've listened to the JL and Elipse component speakers. to me, the Elipse sound a lot more live and clean. what's your take on the ECLIPSE SC8264? are these Eclipse's top line? i've not listen to the Diamonds, how are they compare to the Eclipse?
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I just finished listening to the eclipse SC 8264 in a shop over here in Boise and they sounded a lot cleaner than the JL XR speakers. I almost bought the JL's but when I heard the eclipses I was amazed how clear and deep it sounded. And they were cheaper than the JL's buy like 50 bucks i think. The price they quoted me for the Eclipses were $329.00. I'm still shopping around.
Purely a price reference - http://www.electronicgiant.net/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=111&products_id=4110 - think you'll be pleasantly surprised compared to your previous quote.specrtd said:
(no affiliation or even personal experience of this vendor however)
Haven't heard the Diamond side-side with the eclpise so can't comment on comparison.
i've done some researching, and Ken's link (no relation to him :biggrin: ) is still the best one! Thank God for internet shopping and Ken. :smile:
i think i am going to order it this week if i don't hear any words on the diamond speakers.
i was in the listenning room for at least 45 min., switching between JL, Elcipse, MBQ, and Infinity. it came down to JL and Elcipse, and finally, the Elcipse clearly came out on top, TKO the JLs. they are much much more clear on the mid range and highs.
i think i am going to order it this week if i don't hear any words on the diamond speakers.
i was in the listenning room for at least 45 min., switching between JL, Elcipse, MBQ, and Infinity. it came down to JL and Elcipse, and finally, the Elcipse clearly came out on top, TKO the JLs. they are much much more clear on the mid range and highs.
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randomharmony said:
The Eclipse are a very nice component set for the money, even at $329.
You will get no warranty from Eclipse if you buy them on the internet, no matter what the website says. Nor from JL, Diamond, MBQ or Infinity for that matter. The only warranty you will get is whatever the website can offer, such as you send your problem into them(1 week), they send it to the manufactuer(2-3 weeks usually), the product is returned to the website after it is repaired(another week), then it is sent back to you(one more week). And this is ONLY IF they are an authorized dealer, ILLEAGALLY selling on the internet. Spend the extra money and buy from a Brick and Mortar store, you will get a full warranty, service before, during and after the sale and if you have a problem it can be fixed instantly. Not to mention that you just took 45 minutes of their time learning and listening to the different products so you could make a good choice, only to give the sale to someone who did nothing for you except give you a better price. If everyone took that kind of approach to buying products, all we will have left is internet stores and there will be nowhere to listen and learn. Only "Click here to Buy".
Off of Soap Box
Good luck with your purchase, those are all good companies, so any one of them you will enjoy.
Copied from that website:
I knew someone in here would find a better price for those eclipses. YES! I didn't have to research prices. lol. thanks by the way. I'm going to go with the eclipses.
you are right, i'm going back to the store and pay the full retail price. hopfully the poor sales @ good guys have some mercy and won't give me a broken unit. :wink:
First I doubt very highly if you are paying full retail, I would guess you are paying 20% off retail. What you pay in the store is not retail so please do not use that term. What will you do if they do not last you 6 months, take them back to the online retailer? Most likely you will take them to the store where you just spent 45 minutes of someone else’s time and ask them to take care of the warranty. Next they will either, in a bid to get future business from you handle it, or hopefully tell you to take a walk. then you will get mad, say they suck, say the manufacture sucks, etc,etc. when the real problem is the people who you bought the product from is not authorized to sell the product.
This is a sticky subject because every one wants to pay less, but at what cost? Is the 50-80 or even 100 going to break you? I mean will you even miss it? I mean really that’s not even a nice dinner anymore, or a day @ a baseball game. Yet I wonder how much your time is worth if you can spend 45 minutes at a store and not buy something. If I wasted that time I know it would be worth more that that to me.
Just an idea but maybe the poor sales guy could tell you where wasting his time where going to buy else where, so he tried to waste as little time with you as possible.
The eclipses are great speakers, as I used to work for them I can tell you, if purchased online, you will not get any service from them.
If you bought a new Sony laptop from a un authorized online retailer and the screen broke do you think Sony will help you? Why would this be different? There are allot of great brands selling product online, which will honor their warranty and everything. These companies are typically smaller and they are trying to build up a name for themselves. if you really think you have to buy online cause the savings is so great, please try one of these, you will be allot happier when they break, or a screw is missing, or a tweeter grill is bent.......
Just for your information, most unauthorized product sold online is second hand, maybe not used. but second owner or open box. All manufactures track their products and buy from these online retailers everyday to find out where it is coming from. 65-70% of the time it is a warrantee replacement (b-stock) or from a store that has gone out of business and moved the old display or unsold product to who ever will buy it. (Very rare for product in this case to be in good condition). A second thing to consider is that most of these online retailers do not have a store/office/warehouse or anything; this is partly how they can sell it so cheap. They are working out of their mother’s garage or basement, and when an order comes in they drive around their town shopping for the best deal, to then sell it to you. No I know that you will argue and say this is not true and some of the time you are correct, it is not true, but at least 1/2 the time it’s true. I do have some friends who are setup to sell correctly online, office, 5-6 sales people, online install help, 30,000 foot warehouse. One of these guys sells about 3 million in one product line from Oklahoma a year. All refurbished.
All im saying is there has to be a balance, you wasting a retailer’s time knowing you are planning to go online to find it cheaper is in my opinion, a chicken shit thing to
do. Hell after taking up 45 minutes the guy would have probably hooked you up anyway.
Just my .02
i do wish you the best of luck and hope you have a great car audio experiance
This is a sticky subject because every one wants to pay less, but at what cost? Is the 50-80 or even 100 going to break you? I mean will you even miss it? I mean really that’s not even a nice dinner anymore, or a day @ a baseball game. Yet I wonder how much your time is worth if you can spend 45 minutes at a store and not buy something. If I wasted that time I know it would be worth more that that to me.
Just an idea but maybe the poor sales guy could tell you where wasting his time where going to buy else where, so he tried to waste as little time with you as possible.
The eclipses are great speakers, as I used to work for them I can tell you, if purchased online, you will not get any service from them.
If you bought a new Sony laptop from a un authorized online retailer and the screen broke do you think Sony will help you? Why would this be different? There are allot of great brands selling product online, which will honor their warranty and everything. These companies are typically smaller and they are trying to build up a name for themselves. if you really think you have to buy online cause the savings is so great, please try one of these, you will be allot happier when they break, or a screw is missing, or a tweeter grill is bent.......
Just for your information, most unauthorized product sold online is second hand, maybe not used. but second owner or open box. All manufactures track their products and buy from these online retailers everyday to find out where it is coming from. 65-70% of the time it is a warrantee replacement (b-stock) or from a store that has gone out of business and moved the old display or unsold product to who ever will buy it. (Very rare for product in this case to be in good condition). A second thing to consider is that most of these online retailers do not have a store/office/warehouse or anything; this is partly how they can sell it so cheap. They are working out of their mother’s garage or basement, and when an order comes in they drive around their town shopping for the best deal, to then sell it to you. No I know that you will argue and say this is not true and some of the time you are correct, it is not true, but at least 1/2 the time it’s true. I do have some friends who are setup to sell correctly online, office, 5-6 sales people, online install help, 30,000 foot warehouse. One of these guys sells about 3 million in one product line from Oklahoma a year. All refurbished.
All im saying is there has to be a balance, you wasting a retailer’s time knowing you are planning to go online to find it cheaper is in my opinion, a chicken shit thing to
do. Hell after taking up 45 minutes the guy would have probably hooked you up anyway.
Just my .02
i do wish you the best of luck and hope you have a great car audio experiance
thanks for the education. 2nd hand, b-stock, mother's garage (!?) baseball!! OMG, i didn't realize it's such a rip off! i guess less research is actually better.
btw, the sales told me that there's nothing he can do on component speakers, Esclips "DO NOT" allow any discounts, period! but no offense, i will pay the "full" retail. with 20% off!! you are right, i should be more sympathetic toward the big corporations. With all these takeovers, mergers and pink slips, they are great!
i guess less research is actually better. btw, the sales told me that there's nothing he can do on component speakers, Esclips "DO NOT" allow any discounts, period! but no offense, i will pay the "full" retail. with 20% off!! you are right, i should be more sympathetic toward the big corporations. With all these takeovers, mergers and pink slips, they are great!
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Of course 01blacks4 & soundsoul are absolutely correct - it's really easy for an internet sales person to offer minimal margins even if procured somewhat legally (I mean - where do these guys get this stuff in quantity anyway???) Your "retailer" for want of better description clearly has invested substantially in creating an environment to be able to actually demo & listen to the product! Showroom, products & knowledgable sales people who have to be paid for their service all need to be covered out of the margin.
My reference was not researched thoroughly & frankly I just looked at the price - for some people that's the bottom line, but as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for - or in this case, more of you don't get what you didn't pay for!
My reference was not researched thoroughly & frankly I just looked at the price - for some people that's the bottom line, but as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for - or in this case, more of you don't get what you didn't pay for!
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randomharmony said:
After reading your last few posts, I feel your question would be better handled by whatever internet site you will make your purchase from, after all, I'm just a poor sales smuck that is trying to rip you off.
Email them, I'm sure they have a state of the art facility that they listen to and compare each brand they sell so they can make an excellent recommendation. I am also sure that they have years of installation and technical car audio experience, so when you run into problems with your install, you can call them and they will walk you through it. And when you take your internet equipment to a real car audio store, I hope they raise the price on all of their installation just b/c you wasted their time with the sale. You might save money on the product, but if the store is anything like mine, you will pay for it when it comes to the install. I am not cheapest in my area, I am the best. There is more to a purchase than just price, you get what you pay for.
D'Ecosse said:
Transshipping. Authorized dealers will use their buying ability to buy a product and sell it to the wholesalers at a low markup. Usually they will deface the serial numbers. With JL this used to involve removing the dustcap because the serial number was not external and that caused problems for a lot of people who bought the transshipped goods because they didn't use the right glue when putting the dustcap back on. You'd be surprised at who's all involved in this transshipping business.
I don't see this as a big problem yet but countries like China have the ability to make convincing copies of products. They could easily whip out a set of look-a-like Dynaudio, Eton, etc without the same TS parameters or quality control. So it is true, you never know what you are going to get.
If you are going to buy off the net or from a non-authorized dealer, know your sources or just be willing to have no warranty.
so am i paying for a great service or the product? i don't have a problem paying more for a great service, i always appreciate hard work and dedication, but not sure about paying for retail though. anyways, i am going back to the store for the speakers because of the warranty.
....Or maybe you can just contact Brett (Soundsoul) and ask him for quote - he's an Eclipse authorized dealer (as well as Diamond) and at the very least you'll save the Sales Tax (but I suspect he'll do you OK - very good guy & a big supporter of this forum)randomharmony said:
My personal experience with Brett regarding the Gentex mirrors is extremely positive - check his feedback rating & you'll find my own affirmative rating in the company of the many others of similar vein.
I totally agree with most of the above comments about paying a little extra for something that will be warrantied but the savings on the net is actually a lot more than %20, alot more. I'm not sure I would buy these eclipse speakers off the net but I have already found a place that will warranty the speakers and they are about $50 cheaper than the last audio place I saw them at. Both places are respectable. Oh and I pretty much did my own listening at the audio shop. The sales guy let me know what model it was and that was about it. I don't think he wasted his time, do you? Still debating whether to get off the net at a great price or from a shop for a reasonable price. I'll probably go with the shop but buying off the net isn't as bad as some people might think.
And yes, you do get what you pay for. I will be getting the same quality speakers as someone else who is paying more for them and they will have an advantage on me, which is a warranty. It's a toss up for some people and not for others. Now, that is if I were to buy off the net. By the way my friends who have these speakers have had no problems with them. Even some of their older eclipse equipment has been on par. Not saying that they will never break but you can't be getting all mad at people for going a different route. I hate retail but sometimes i will buy it due to its convenience, but it doesn't mean that all retail should be treated the same way. Nothing is wrong for not buying these from a audio dealer who really marks up the price.
Nothing is wrong with an audio dealer who marks up the price, he has to stay in business, and with out him eclipse would have no place to sell their products, no place to listen to their products, which in turn would eliminate any demand for the products online.
Catch-22
Look at a gate way computer, they sell it starting @ 700,and discount it all the way down to 400 or so, they make it for 200 (and yes I know this is the cost) they need to make money to pay their employees.
Everyone always wants cheap, and then complains when something gets mad out of this county or a job gets moved. With out profit no one wins. It is a race down the drain.
FWIW the 20% I spoke of was not the online pricing is was what most retail shops use as a discount under retail. They sell @ retail minus 20% (a good retail shop run correctly will profit at the end of the year less than 10%)
Also as far as (the big business with layoffs and everything else) there are none of those in car audio. For perspective jl audio may do about 100 mill a year, rockford fosgate a little more. sont or pioneer don’t count they make other stuff, eclipse about 30 million. Gateway has lost 400 million a year for the last 4 years. They lose money trying to make products cheaper instead of better, to keep the public buying, yet only making pennies to do so in turn laying people off. How long can this last? Till they go out of business? Till they everyone off, the investor’s (prolly some of us) loss all their money? All because they tried or had to sell products cheaper by $20 bucks.
I know this is a little off track but the theory is the same. The basic economics that even as an engineering student I was forced to take.
I am not saying that online buying is the sin of man, I am over sensitive to it as my income and lively hood is determined by this practice.
I am saying that the value of the purchase should be greater than just the product.
Catch-22
Look at a gate way computer, they sell it starting @ 700,and discount it all the way down to 400 or so, they make it for 200 (and yes I know this is the cost) they need to make money to pay their employees.
Everyone always wants cheap, and then complains when something gets mad out of this county or a job gets moved. With out profit no one wins. It is a race down the drain.
FWIW the 20% I spoke of was not the online pricing is was what most retail shops use as a discount under retail. They sell @ retail minus 20% (a good retail shop run correctly will profit at the end of the year less than 10%)
Also as far as (the big business with layoffs and everything else) there are none of those in car audio. For perspective jl audio may do about 100 mill a year, rockford fosgate a little more. sont or pioneer don’t count they make other stuff, eclipse about 30 million. Gateway has lost 400 million a year for the last 4 years. They lose money trying to make products cheaper instead of better, to keep the public buying, yet only making pennies to do so in turn laying people off. How long can this last? Till they go out of business? Till they everyone off, the investor’s (prolly some of us) loss all their money? All because they tried or had to sell products cheaper by $20 bucks.
I know this is a little off track but the theory is the same. The basic economics that even as an engineering student I was forced to take.
I am not saying that online buying is the sin of man, I am over sensitive to it as my income and lively hood is determined by this practice.
I am saying that the value of the purchase should be greater than just the product.
Like I said before I pretty much agree with most of you, and as for 01blacks4, that was very well written. Your point has been made and more than likely been taken. :smile: Never thought this write-up would turn into an economics class, but I like how it has turned out and I'm sure it has given many of us a more clear perspective and understanding on "Retail" and how businesses need to make profit for this economy of ours to survive.
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