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Please, anyone in Saint Louis help! This is serious....FRAUD

len3.8 said:
Have you tried to contact the owner of the car?
Explain to them what has happened with their seller/broker?
I would call them and provide them with the info that you are providing here.
Let them know that you have given the seller/broker the funds that were asked for in turn for their interest/ownership in the car.
Do you have a copy of the Title? It has their info on it.
Good luck.

I called 411 over 10 times searching for his Tele # based on the owners name that Tom gave me (David Pheodoro) from Saint Louis. According to all the agents, no name exists in the area or 500 miles radius for that matter around Saint Louis..... :confused:
 
len3.8 said:
I think the owner is a Cardio Thoracic surgeon in the St. Louis Area.
You can also call the DMV, see what information they will give on the Title of this car.

Thanks Len, for I am almost at the point of just throwing in the towel........all the transport costs, inspections, wire fees, days work lost due to trying to contact Tom every 10 minutes the day of pickup (for he vanished for 10 hours around the time I told him my guy would be there to pick up the car)

Can you believe he started to block my phone calls!!!! Ask Gary Almond what he and his driver/nephew went through....hell! I'm telling you Len, this guy is a crook!!!!
 
gobble said:
Why does your Vette only have 6 miles on it?

My lord gobble, not now..................for we will never return back to the subject at hand if I get into explaining....
 
NSXVetteViperSupra said:
Thanks Len, for I am almost at the point of just throwing in the towel........all the transport costs, inspections, wire fees, days work lost due to trying to contact Tom every 10 minutes the day of pickup (for he vanished for 10 hours around the time I told him my guy would be there to pick up the car)

Can you believe he started to block my phone calls!!!! Ask Gary Almond what he and his driver/nephew went through....hell! I'm telling you Len, this guy is a crook!!!!


Okay lets examine this. You are going to throw away 30K plus? I mean buy your account, the car is pretty much paid for. He gets to walk with your cash after a little frustration? No way in hell would I walk away from that kind of dollars. The car is sitting right out front of the strip mall. Heck, get the license plate number from the title and do a little detective work and let the owners know what has transpired.

Did he wire you any kind of refund at all? Are you still out all of your $$$'s ?
Do you have a bill of sale for the car? Is it notarized? Was there a purchase order? I was told that the Title was signed by the owner(s), He and his wife are both on the title, Find out if it was notarized when they signed it.
I think you really need to get the original owner involved with this.
Do you have a carfax for this car? Hey I am more than willing to help you set things right... PM me with whatever info you want to share. I am quite sure that this thread is being watched by your seller/broker/. It does not matter to me, because I never approached him in a way other than interested in the car. Then I pretty much asked was the car already sold. That is when I was told the side of the story that I repeated.

I will add that all of my regards are made if in fact what you are saying is true. The seller was upfront with all that I asked about.
 
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NSXVetteViperSupra said:
My lord gobble, not now..................for we will never return back to the subject at hand if I get into explaining....

Its not like you're going to solve anything typing to people in a web forum who have nothing to do with your deal. This whole story is one of the dumbest things I've seen in these forums. How do you get burned on 6 cars? Its not that difficult to buy a car.
 
len3.8 said:
Okay lets examine this. You are going to throw away 30K plus? I mean buy your account, the car is pretty much paid for. He gets to walk with your cash after a little frustration? No way in hell would I walk away from that kind of dollars. The car is sitting right out front of the strip mall. Heck, get the license plate number from the title and do a little detective work and let the owners know what has transpired.

Did he wire you any kind of refund at all? Are you still out all of your $$$'s ?

What sucks is I've been saving all my money for a year to get the car.............No, I do not make that much $, and I had to sacrifice more than you can imagine....Just put up my recent statement a few posts earlier, no cash and nothing noted when I called earlier.....

Can anyone give me the license #? I will get fired from work if I waste another day messing with this car.......(i.e. flying to Saint Louis) The Owner's name that Tom gave me, does not seem to work or at least the 411 people can not find him...I called the bank where I wired the cash, and they are not allowed to tell me anything..
 
gobble said:
Its not like you're going to solve anything typing to people in a web forum who have nothing to do with your deal. This whole story is one of the dumbest things I've seen in these forums. How do you get burned on 6 cars? Its not that difficult to buy a car.

How, ???? Well, just like this over and over......Yep, I am the guy that wired the full amount to Mickey as well, or at least her Lease company......Was told by the NSX mechanic, no snapring................the whole way to Baltimore for the car..............I could go on and on......
 
NSXVetteViperSupra said:
What sucks is I've been saving all my money for a year to get the car.............No, I do not make that much $, and I had to sacrifice more than you can imagine....Just put up my recent statement a few posts earlier, no cash and nothing noted when I called earlier.....

Can anyone give me the license #? I will get fired from work if I waste another day messing with this car.......(i.e. flying to Saint Louis) The Owner's name that Tom gave me, does not seem to work or at least the 411 people can not find him...I called the bank where I wired the cash, and they are not allowed to tell me anything..


Go to your bank (Wait was it US bank or Wachovia?) and file a report as well as check with your local police to file a report for theft. See if your bank would be compelled to get any ifo on the account the $$'s were wired into.
 
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Are you sure "Tom" even knows the owner or vice-versa? Sounds to me like someone is getting scammed.
 
IMOP, your wrong. It's easy to get burned buying a car. I almost did buying a used 01 in FL from a high line dealer. But I recognized the warning signs and got out of there fast. Good thing I did, he didn't have a title for the car he wanted me to pay CASH for, and I later found out that American Honda Financing was looking to repossess the car for 6 months delinquent payment. I was lucky to get out of that one with only a day's time lost, and airfare.

YMMV of course.
MikeC
 
steveny said:
Are you sure "Tom" even knows the owner or vice-versa? Sounds to me like someone is getting scammed.

Well if he doesn't, then he has the keys to someones car. Giving test drives, delivering the car for pre-purchase inspections.
As Mike C has noted above. having possesion of the car does not mean he owns it or there is a clear title out there. All of this stuff is easy to manipulate, However one would be crazy to do this in the wide open, repeatedly.

I got burned by a dealer on a truck recently, and the dealer did not try to do it. Mine was indirect because he did not know that the seller he got the car from faked a document. After not getting my title and a subsequent impound of my vehicle, it was finally cleared up after a few weeks.

It should also be noted, Missouri does not hold titles with or without liens on them. Therefore a copy of the title can easily be manipulated.
However the DMV/Dept. Of Revenue will give information for a small fee on a title. This title seems to pass snuff.
 
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steveny said:
Are you sure "Tom" even knows the owner or vice-versa? Sounds to me like someone is getting scammed.

At this point I am not really sure what the heck I know or not.............

My buddy Gene will be back from vacation in Orlando soon, maybe he can talk some sense into Tom...for I can remember how much Gene hated the guy when they met to inspect the car for me....
 
len3.8 said:
He is an abrassive guy, I can definitely vouch for that. But I can be just as bad, so we kind of got that out of the way in a hurry. However, I don't think I would wait for Gene if you have in fact given $$$'s for the car. Gene did nothing more than look at the car for you as far as I know. If it were my 30K, I would be here at the Police station with all the evidence to show that the car was now mines, and I needed help retrieving it.

I am done, good luck.


Len, I really appreciate your time and effort. I can not thank you enough for spending your Friday evening trying to help some punk kid, in which, you have never even met... :)
 
sjs said:
Geez guys, cut him some slack already.

Danny, I'll call a lawyer buddy of mine. May not be is area but he might recommend someone. I'll call you later.

Just wanted to thank everyone who took a minute to post something benefical. Thanks Steve, Gene, Len, Jlindy, Matteni, djskyy, and everyone for providing helpful advise. Hey, what comes around...............goes around; In the end, this guy will get what he deserves!!
 
I don't know what's going on here, but let me add my experience with this buyer. This same buyer was going to buy my black 94 that I have for sale. We agreed on the price over phone, and he was going to fly up to SF from LA to see my car, but he never showed up that afternoon and didn't contact me until 2 days later. I wasted my morning waiting for him. He emailed me 2 days later and arranged another time to see my car. When that day came, I called him and gave him directions to my place and he said he will leave in 10 minutes and will be on his way. I waited for him for about 3 hours and tried calling him several times, but he never answered his phone and didn't call me back for a couple of days.

Then, he emails me 3 days later to see if the car is still for sale. By then, I had another person interested so I told him I'll get back to him if that buyer falls through. He then emails me back and tells me he just bought another NSX.

So, I'm not sure what's going on here. I just got an email from him now asking me again if my car was still for sale, which led me to find this post.
 
The registered owner's last name is Theodoro and not Pheodoro. If you can't get resolution from the broker and have to contact the owner, PM me and I will give you their phone number or address that was valid as of 3/05. Good luck and be more careful as you have been burned way too many times here.
 
xScape said:
I don't know what's going on here, but let me add my experience with this buyer. This same buyer was going to buy my black 94 that I have for sale. We agreed on the price over phone, and he was going to fly up to SF from LA to see my car, but he never showed up that afternoon and didn't contact me until 2 days later. I wasted my morning waiting for him. He emailed me 2 days later and arranged another time to see my car. When that day came, I called him and gave him directions to my place and he said he will leave in 10 minutes and will be on his way. I waited for him for about 3 hours and tried calling him several times, but he never answered his phone and didn't call me back for a couple of days.

Then, he emails me 3 days later to see if the car is still for sale. By then, I had another person interested so I told him I'll get back to him if that buyer falls through. He then emails me back and tells me he just bought another NSX.

So, I'm not sure what's going on here. I just got an email from him now asking me again if my car was still for sale, which led me to find this post.


karma...when will people learn.
 
Man, there's a lot of stuff going on here that, in Bob's words, doesn't pass the "sniff test". Here are just three such examples:

Example 1

NSXVetteViperSupra said:
Yes, I thought the car I was buying was a 94.
Even though it says multiple times in the Autotrader ad that it's a 92, and has the VIN for a 92, and was inspected by both Steve and Gene? :rolleyes:

Example 2

NSXVetteViperSupra said:
No, I do not make that much $, and I had to sacrifice more than you can imagine....
.
.
.
99 FRC Vette (6 miles on OD)
01 Viper RT (30 miles on OD)
93 Supra Hardtop GT47 - 1500RWHP
94 NSX Black/Black (20,000 on OD)
Example 3

NSXVetteViperSupra said:
I called 411 over 10 times searching for his Tele # based on the owners name that Tom gave me (David Pheodoro) from Saint Louis. According to all the agents, no name exists in the area or 500 miles radius for that matter around Saint Louis.....
jlindy said:
The registered owner's last name is Theodoro and not Pheodoro.
If someone was stiffed, then sure, it's wrong and it's a travesty. But so far, from everything I've read, I can only conclude that much of what is being claimed is untrue, and that the biggest problem expressed here is that of a buyer being highly emotional and out of touch with reality (and apparently, on at least one previous occasion, has shown a total lack of faith and lack of consideration for others). I'm not at all convinced that the seller even did anything wrong. It also appears that others here (e.g. Len, Gene) are in touch with the seller (or his agent) and are willing to help figure out what happened and help you straighten it out. My advice to NSXVetteViperSupra is to cool down, stop posting here, and instead use his/their help to work it out in private. In particular, both Len and Gene are good men who are fair and have excellent judgment and are also very experienced in business; I can only believe that either or both will help you figure out what really happened and what your options are. LISTEN TO WHAT THEY TELL YOU (instead of continuing what sounds to me more like a childish temper tantrum) and carefully consider any advice they give you. Good luck.
 
nsxtasy said:
Man, there's a lot of stuff going on here that, in Bob's words, doesn't pass the "sniff test". Here are just three such examples:

Example 1

Even though it says multiple times in the Autotrader ad that it's a 92, and has the VIN for a 92, and was inspected by both Steve and Gene? :rolleyes:

Example 2

Example 3

If someone was stiffed, then sure, it's wrong and it's a travesty. But so far, from everything I've read, I can only conclude that much of what is being claimed is untrue, and that the biggest problem expressed here is that of a buyer being highly emotional and out of touch with reality (and apparently, on at least one previous occasion, has shown a total lack of faith and lack of consideration for others). I'm not at all convinced that the seller even did anything wrong. It also appears that others here (e.g. Len, Gene) are in touch with the seller (or his agent) and are willing to help figure out what happened and help you straighten it out. My advice to NSXVetteViperSupra is to cool down, stop posting here, and instead use his/their help to work it out in private. In particular, both Len and Gene are good men who are fair and have excellent judgment and are also very experienced in business; I can only believe that either or both will help you figure out what really happened and what your options are. LISTEN TO WHAT THEY TELL YOU (instead of continuing what sounds to me more like a childish temper tantrum) and carefully consider any advice they give you. Good luck.

No disrespect Sir, but you have not a clue of what is happening!

Childish temper tantrum…….Geez, please tell me how I should act when the following occurs:
1. Vehicle is advertised as 94, and turns out to be a 92 after you made all arrangements.
2. Pay $103 dollars for a NSX Mechanic to inspect the car in which, he does not advise it is a 92, even after I state the following, “Hi Steve, I had a 1994 Acura NSX that was in today for an inspection….”
3. When I finally realize the car is a 92, I call Saint Louis Acura back up and say, “Hi Steve, well it’s a 92, did you check the car for the snap ring? Steve responds, “Yes, not a snap ring car……””
4. Now, here is what I am thinking at this point…..Okay, even though it’s a 92, it’s not a snap ring……Okay, no need to turn around my transporter coming from Florida or wire back my 30,500 cash deposit.
5. Find out a few hours later it is a snap ring from Gene……………….Now, I am starting to get a little pissed at this point.
6. Transporter arrives at 7am for pickup on Tuesday. I tell my driver hold tight, we got issues we need resolved with the year, and now the transmission……Few hours later we agree to adjust price from 34,250 to 32,000 for the snap ring and year change…
7. I inform the Broker, I will send the remaining $1,500 balance Paypal and I will add to that $60 to cover the 3% fee. Also, I can give you my Credit Card (info since you own a business), or I can even send a wire for the $1,500 and you can secure the balance with the Paypal I just sent you, my CC info, and the trace # from my bank verifying the in transit cash.
8. The Broker then disappears for 10 or so hours. My driver sleeps in truck waiting and I pay my driver an additional $500 for an extra day.
9. Next day arrives, and I realize that the broker is now blocking my calls……….
10. I finally find his business number, and call from a different phone and he answers. I say Tom, “What the hell are you doing? I am paying my godamn driver by the hour here and you’re pissing around playing childish games. Tom, you better give my driver a bill of sale, title, and hand over the keys! Please Tom, my driver needs to leave in a few minutes for he is already two days late!”
11. Tom responds, “You fuc#@n idiot, the deals off…………Jesus Christ, tell you driver to get the hell out of here and he hangs up!!!!”
12. I call him back and say, “Tom, I just called the police.”
13. Transporter charges me $1,700 and says, “What the hell is going on? I am leaving this godamn place. Tom is crazy and I can not take anymore”
14. I search for the owner based on the wiring instructions that Tom gave me with his full name. The spelling was exactly noted how it was given to me. No luck finding the guy, and I began to think he does not exist.
15. All communication ceases with Broker.
16. As of 12 noon pst on Saturday, I have not seen even a dollar of the cash wired back to my account. It should only take 24hours, and this was supposed to have happened on Thursday.
17. I realize, wow I have been really screwed here. All the money I have in transportation, wires, phone calls, lost time, plus I have yet to receive back the $30,000 dollar deposit. All for a car that was clearly misrepresented from the beginning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me, how should I act at this point???????????

Example 1: The guy just changed the info in Auto Trader today, after I informed him I was calling Auto trader if he did not change it himself…….So, another would not have to experience all the bullshit that I just did.

Example 2: It’s called debt.

Example 3: The name that was given to me and on the wire instructions was David A. Pheodoro. How was I to get the name from the title when I did not have possession of it? Tom would not give me the title or car, even though I had paid in full……

Please, have the facts and read into the details before you discredit someone!!!! :mad:
 
xScape said:
I don't know what's going on here, but let me add my experience with this buyer. This same buyer was going to buy my black 94 that I have for sale. We agreed on the price over phone, and he was going to fly up to SF from LA to see my car, but he never showed up that afternoon and didn't contact me until 2 days later. I wasted my morning waiting for him. He emailed me 2 days later and arranged another time to see my car. When that day came, I called him and gave him directions to my place and he said he will leave in 10 minutes and will be on his way. I waited for him for about 3 hours and tried calling him several times, but he never answered his phone and didn't call me back for a couple of days.

Then, he emails me 3 days later to see if the car is still for sale. By then, I had another person interested so I told him I'll get back to him if that buyer falls through. He then emails me back and tells me he just bought another NSX.

So, I'm not sure what's going on here. I just got an email from him now asking me again if my car was still for sale, which led me to find this post.

After trying to sell my Audi for a while now, I know what this is like. Some people lose all common courtesy when shopping for a car. I hate people like this. This guy gets no sympathy from me.
 
gobble said:
After trying to sell my Audi for a while now, I know what this is like. Some people lose all common courtesy when shopping for a car. I hate people like this. This guy gets no sympathy from me.

Yes, I am to blame....All common courtesy went out the window along time ago, after I got fed up with people misrepresenting the condition of what they had for sale. Maybe I am way too particular, which almost always leads to disappointment and misrepresentation in my eyes. So, I do apoligize for my loss of common courtesy in the last few months.
 
www.orbitz.com After dropping 30,000 + invest another 300.00 on a plane ticket and knock on the friggen guys door, face to face works better than internet boxing.

Armando
 
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:eek: Sorry to hear that. If i were you I'd make sure I am holding the car or have a legit dealer as a broker for these type of wire transactions. Safest bet is to hand over the check for the car and signed title.
 
"passengers, please fasten your tongues..."

hmmm... Armando is right (www.Orbitz.com ), face-to-face interaction will clear up all/most misunderstandings. Fly out there w/ someone who keep you cool-calm-collected (mom, sis', gf/wife or bf/husband, parole officer, etc). You will get your $30k back, not many want to live a life as a fugitive over fraud. The 'broker' is just peturbed (annoyed, to say the leasts) so he'll take his time remitting your funds back. As far as transport costs, Acura Pre-purchase Inspection, and other funds... you can try to workout those in due time (work out future agreement w/ transporter to credit you towards another job, ask the Acura dealer for some compensation as they failed to identify the snap-ring, etc).

Even if the car is snap-ring, a 1992, and far-away... finalize the transaction, period. Snap-ring can be fixed at a cost less than two sets of tires.

Time for words has passed. Go there, pay what remains to be paid & secure the NSX & title ($1k, $2k price adjustment doesn't matter for the model year difference or snap-ring. It's still a fabulous deal for a 20k mile NSX). Take sjs, Len3.8, KGP, and whomever else to a nice steak dinner at a fine chophouse. Drive off into the pacific, err- I mean sunset! Goodluck. :cool:
 
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