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Pole 2 Flag Active-Aero Build

Joined
26 January 2001
Messages
2,102
Location
San Diego, CA
We are making decent progress on our next project of active-aero v1.0 which is more than 50%(the hard design work is done) complete with more pictures and video to follow(see link below)

We have finished most of the modeling/designing/packaging and with no less than 100+ CFD analysis complete to provide active-aero v1.0 with targeted 320-360 lbs of total DF on-demand with a 40/60 weight distribution of a 3,000 lb. car, yet we have plenty of head room for the frt flap and rear wing angles to reach stall.

Active-aero v2.0 will have a much higher DF on-demand with a bigger, taller wing with more camber and a deeper chord than v1.0. We are making a front bumper cover from carbon/kevlar/honeycomb/ROHACELL(~ min. 50% lighter than the OEM urethane) with an active flap attached to actuators that are mounted on the carbon bumper beam that we already make, the control buttons/knobs will be mounted on our Type R style carbon center console, the v1.0 rear wing will be located on the existing trunk and be mounted slightly higher than the Type R wing to generate the targeted DF number but with an Eppler 420 profile with a lofted center section. For once, we don't need to worry about the drag, that is nice.

Initially, we spec-ed out the active aero system using Pi Research/Cosworth of ICD, IPS, ECU, sensors...components so everything is digitally controlled via CAN bus....but the components quickly escalated to $30k+ before ANY design/carbon parts are made. We got scared. The system we are building is more analog so YOU get to determine when to turn on/off the aero which is more fun IMO but you need to know what you are doing thus the low DF of in the v1.0 ~350lbs range => ~10% of the weight of your car to "keep you out of deep trouble." AND, this will work between 0-100-0 mph where most of us spending our time.

This set up is designed and modeled specifically for the Gen 1 NSX 1991-2005 with the OEM body shape in mind and all parts are reverse-able back to oem if necessary.

Active Aero R&D


Recently this video came thru our feed. Thx to Hoonigan for this review, this was the car we were involved in design and building from 90-94 in Vista CA working with Trevor Harris(trevorlharris.com), Don Devendorf(+/-), Wes Moss(mechanicals), Yoshi(aero), John Caldwell(engine), Andy Galloway(composite), Bill Dailey(Dailey Dry Sump), Rob Edwards(Alex Rossi Strategist), Chris Willis(Real Time NSX GT3), and many other very gifted folks. After finishing engine R&D of the 4-valve 3.0, we moved on to suspension design and aero support. It was a privilege and an extremely valuable experience working with them learning how to think, how to apply theory to real life scenarios, learning what not to do besides drawing circles and lines all day on CAD. Ignore the hideous intake periscope...but it was worth xtra 50hp needed to chase the "Eagle Powers" AAR Toyota but Geoff Brabham had a fit when he saw it for the 1st time...."WTH is this?" Chip Robinson was "ok" with it. Pay attention to what Trevor has to say, he has a physics background and we always learn something new just listening to him. Kinda like a "american" Gordon Murray to us.


10,000lbs of Downforce at 200mph: Nissan’s Wild 950hp IMSA GTP Cars



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10,000lbs of Downforce at 200mph: Nissan’s Wild 950hp IMSA GTP Cars

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Aero PM questions:
1) To generate DF from the bottom of the car starting with front splitter/wing, a sealed flat bottom with tunnels from the CoP on both sides is better for longitudinal engine layout not like our, long diffuser needs to work with the rear wing mounted at the proper location as a whole package in order to work. Not to mention the ride height needed to keep the bottom seal from leakage. Even if it works well, the drag number is quite larger pushing all that air and you will never pass a gas station you don't like in the real world.

2) Really not trying post unnecessary long paragraphs but just the key basic points so "you" know what you are buying function more than form. Form over function or vise versa are important. In this case, we are making product that is functional all the time especially from 0-100-0 mph where we spend most of our time on track or on the road. It is more sexy to talk big HP and torque and boost and turbo and SC and intercoolers.....etc. Talking aero, Bernoulli, Reynolds number, F = Velocity squared, gets boring and too geeky for most and it is a poor marketing approach. We can take this on the side if needed.

3) One way to feel the aero is to try indoor sky diving. We were surprised how powerful air is by moving tiny body movements and the effect. We are playing with "invisible" force here. We have done the HP route for many years and finding the invisible force of air is very intriguing and we will try this on our iconic car, hopefully long before we kick the bucket. It is not a new concept as this is how the airplane takes off and land.

4) we are recruiting in the marketing department, If you think you can help, please contact us.
 
I know that [MENTION=4900]Track Junkie[/MENTION] is curious about making downforce without a large rear wing. He's been focused on diffusers, but maybe this project might be a better solution?
 
Looking forward to seeing your design. I had a plan that included a bunch of Professional Awesome components, including their front diffusor and splitter. Though not having front vendor vent may reduce effectiveness.
 
I know that @Track Junkie is curious about making downforce without a large rear wing. He's been focused on diffusers, but maybe this project might be a better solution?

Hi Paul, perhaps Track Junkie can contact us and discuss this scenario. From our CFD data w/o a rear wing, there is a bit of neg. pressure behind the car as expected but too small to feel it in real world. On many cars, the air leading to the trailing edge of the diffuser is quite dirty especially without a sealed flat bottom....and other challenges.

McLaren has an active big wing hiding in the back......too bad we don't have that option without making the car look hideous. We have no place to hide in the back, making it active is the second option.
 
Looking forward to seeing your design. I had a plan that included a bunch of Professional Awesome components, including their front diffusor and splitter. Though not having front vendor vent may reduce effectiveness.

Hey Shawn,
We can certainly discuss what you have in mind before we finalize everything. Making DF from under the car IS the most effective approach especially when the engine is a longitudinal layout so tunnels w/undertray can be made to lead in the frt diffusor and splitter, however, our cars need to be functional on the road so the problem with ride height and frt suspension geometry become a bigger problem. ie. rule of thumb about when the front splitter becomes effective is ~4:1 ratio of the ride height. Thus our cars need to be slammed so much the RC and IC and wishbone angles are all messed up and the car becomes underivable. U can still drive the car but it won't handle at all.....it is for the slam crowd IMO.

We had the Type R front treatment and it did make noticeable amount of DF but we don't want DF all the time because the drag comes with it....so we decided on active DF playing with air on top of the car.

Years ago when we were at Nissan GTP discussing the aero layout around the design table, active aero came up and we all thought it would be so cool to have active aero on race cars, after 10min. of discussing realizing none of us have super power to change the rule. We were all bummed for the rest of the day. Yes, it sucks to push all that air/drag around the track when not needed which is majority of the time.
 
frt bumper mold is done. making just one out of fiberglass for fitment ck. then make an opening for the actuators to generate DF. Production will be prepreg to loose bunch of weight far away from the CG. U need to corner weight your car to be safe.

All of us want more HP since our 1st car.... your chance to play with air: DF-on-demand is coming....If you care about physics and like to experience aero at work. Help us to make this happen before we kick the bucket.

files won't attach so ck our FB posts.
 
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