Radiator Coolant Question

[JDMHONDA]

I know its kinda of a stupid question, and I should know this.

But im a bit new to the NSX when it comes to coolant, and cold climates. This is the first year in a state that gets cold. I have always just checked the white tank in the engine compartment, and its always been around the max line. I was going to do a flush and fill, but looked at the FSM and with all the bleeding i just left it along. I thought i would just take the drain plug out, drain the old out and replace with new. Well as we all know and i have found out with the nsx its not that easy.

I want to check it to make sure the coolant is good for the cold weather up to a degree, but just not noticed the radiator in the front doesnt have a cap to do the dip test.

How do we even top off the coolant? Do i do the cold dip test in the tank by the motor?

Sorry, im new to the nsx world and cold weather.
Just posting before i break out the FSM.

Thanks

 

[JDMHONDA]

Ok, just checked the coolant level. The car is cold, and hasnt been running.

The level is about a 1/4" above the MAX line. Stuck the tube into the white tank and checked the coolant in the tank, and it comes back to be ok for freezing temps.

Should i let the car run, and then sit, and then check the level? Should i worry about the little bit above the MAX line?

Thanks for any help.
Newbie.

 

[DDozier]

Ok, just checked the coolant level. The car is cold, and hasnt been running.

The level is about a 1/4" above the MAX line. Stuck the tube into the white tank and checked the coolant in the tank, and it comes back to be ok for freezing temps.

Should i let the car run, and then sit, and then check the level? Should i worry about the little bit above the MAX line?

Thanks for any help.
Newbie.

Sounds as though all is well, if you do decide to drain and fill, make sure you follow the service manual, it is not hard but is time consuming to flush and fill and remove all the air from the system. If you do not get all the air out the car will over heat when pushed hard, but otherwise will seem just fine. Oh and the Honda coolent is different than the stuff at the autoparts store, or so they say, so you should probably get the Honda stuff to be safe.

Dave

 

[JDMHONDA]

Sounds as though all is well, if you do decide to drain and fill, make sure you follow the service manual, it is not hard but is time consuming to flush and fill and remove all the air from the system. If you do not get all the air out the car will over heat when pushed hard, but otherwise will seem just fine. Oh and the Honda coolent is different than the stuff at the autoparts store, or so they say, so you should probably get the Honda stuff to be safe.

Dave

Thank you.

Then i shouldnt really worry about the 1/4 amount above the MAX line? Yea im prob going to do the flush thingy this summer, i havent been in a cold climate state so this is a first for me.
THen checking it from the tank is ok?

Thanks for your time.

 

[OLDMNSX]

Just a couple tips on doing this.

1, Wait for it to warm up to do this. (next spring/summer)
2. Read the manual a couple times first, locate all of the bleeders.
2. Use soft water to do the flush if you have it. (No Minerals)
4. Remove the thermostat to do the flush.
5. Remove the bleeders and clean them and the seat with a drill bit. (turn by hand, not with your drill)
6. I disconnect the hose than comes out of the thermostat housing and put the garden hose into the hose to push water forward to the radiator. Start the engine. The engine water pump will pull water into the engine and flush it out the thermostat housing. Flush until the water is clear. Open all of the drains again.
7. Try to collect all of the old coolant, just what drains, not the flush fluid, and return it to a recycle center. (I take mine to a radiator shop)
8. When refilling add the required amount of straight anti-freeze first. (any trapped flush water i.e. heater core, will dilute a pre-mix)
9. Use Distilled water to refill (it's cheap), DO NOT use mineral water.
10. Bleed the system a couple times after refilling to make sure all of the air is out.
11. After a few runs adjust the reservoir tank level where you want it. With the engine at operating them, I took a black Sharpie marker and put a 1 inch mark on the white reservoir tank where the Hot level is at. After the engine is cold I mark this level also. This way I can monitor the level with the engine both hot and cold. If you find it hard to see the fluid through the tank, remove the filler cap, take a small flashlight like a Mag-Lite and and shine it inside toward the side of the tank. This will illuminate the fluid level. Don't do this if the engine is HOT. You can also just push the flashlight up to the tank and move it up or down till the level is identified.

Brad

 

[CL65 Captain]

Step 1. Take Car to Dealer

Step 2. Go get lunch

Step 3. Pick up car and go home.

Don't get me wrong, I like working on my car and do my own oil changes (although I did buy an oil extractor), pads, etc. but there are some things that it is just easier to pay someone else to do it. Flushing the coolant is probably one of them.

 

[zahntech]

There needs to be room for expansion in the system when it gets hot, so the 1/4 inch over the Max line when cold is overfilled...when cold it should be above the Low line but not all the way to the Max line...when the system is hot the level should be no higher then the Max line.

The reason for the Low and Max lines is to alow for heat expansion and contraction.

 

[Daedalus]

The owner's manual says to fill up to the max line if the coolant falls below the min line. It also says to never open the system when hot, so presumably the system is expected to be cold when filling it to the max line. We can estimate the expected change in coolant level going from 50*F to 200*F to be about 2.75" in the tank, but in reality it's less than this because components expand too as the pressure rises, increasing total volume. I don't see how 1/4" over max can hurt anything. Worst case, a bit of coolant sloshes up while driving and gets spit out the cap, down the drain tube and onto the ground, and only if the cap happens to be venting at the point when coolant's sloshing around.

 

[Hugh]

Should i worry about the little bit above the MAX line?

No. 1/4" over the Max line is insignificant. When you said you checked the coolant did you mean with one of those testers that show concentration percentages? That's whats really important, making sure the concentration is between 50% and 60% coolant. Below 50% will not give adequate protection from freezing and corrosion and over 60% will impair cooling efficiency. 55% is just right.

 

[Tony Montoya]

Isn't the Honda coolant pre-mixed with water from the factory?

 

[Hugh]

Isn't the Honda coolant pre-mixed with water from the factory?

I'm pretty sure you can buy it both pre-mixed and undiluted however most dealers only stock the pre-mixed.

Another reason to use the Honda coolant is that is specifically formulated for aluminum engines and contains no silicates which are still present in many mass market coolants. The new Prestone and Havoline Long Life (5 year/150,000 mile) formulations are nitrate, silicate and borate free. They also tout organic acids to fight corrosion as Honda does in the letter below. More info here. You can also use your own grey matter and Google to learn more.

Here is a copy of a memo Honda and Acura sent out to its dealer network:
(This also happens to be posted right here on Prime in the FAQ

Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go -------------------------------------------

Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.

To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.

Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:

- Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive, causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.

Chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours:

24 hrs: Honda Coolant 0, Typical Silicated Coolant 21
48 hrs: Honda Coolant 1, Typical Silicated Coolant 36
72 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 47
96 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 55
120 hrs: Honda Coolant 2.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 56
144 hrs: Honda Coolant 3.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 57
168 hrs: Honda Coolant 4, Typical Silicated Coolant 58.8
192 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 63
200 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 64

- Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.

- Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.

- Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.

Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested.

In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:

- No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.

(graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line)

- No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.

- Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.

- Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).

You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant.

 

[JDMHONDA]

There needs to be room for expansion in the system when it gets hot, so the 1/4 inch over the Max line when cold is overfilled...when cold it should be above the Low line but not all the way to the Max line...when the system is hot the level should be no higher then the Max line.

The reason for the Low and Max lines is to alow for heat expansion and contraction.

But the manual says to fill up to the max while its cold.

 

[Hugh]

But the manual says to fill up to the max while its cold.

That's because the Max and Min lines inscribed on the tank are for the proper levels on a cold engine. There is more than 3 inches of space above the Max line for expansion once the system warms up and before it stars belching coolant out of the overflow tube. This should not even happen on a properly running system.