Road Salt

[jeffreygebhart]

Hi Everyone,

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I couldn't find a thread covering it. I live outside of Chicago, one of the areas of the U.S. where the strategy of the highway department is to match the amount of snow that falls with an equivalent amount of salt. We had a dusting of snow the other day, and I thought that the roads in my area were clear of salt but when driving over an overpass I noticed the telltale heavy white powder and large granules of salt along the shoulders of the roadway . It seemed to be limited to the bridge and the roadway immediately leading up to the bridge. Granted that we're not talking about an extended drive along salty roads, but I was wondering if very many of you in the northern climates drive your car on salty roads in the winter and if so, have you noticed any adverse effects of doing so on your cars? I realize that the NSX is made primarily of aluminum but have researched the subject a little and have found that, contrary to what many believe, that aluminum does corrode when exposed to salt. It may not be as nasty or pronounced as the rusting of iron or steel but it will react. I seem to recall having met guys at past NSXPO's who said that they drove their cars through the snow all winter. I asked one of my Canadian friends about this who said that in Alberta they use sand and non-salt products in keeping their roads clear.

Anyway, what's the general consensus? Is a little salt on the body and undercarriage of the NSX cause for concern or not? Thanks

 

[NSX2398]

I'm guessing you're not going to get a lot of responses as most owners are afraid to drive in the rain let alone in the winter. Back in 2001, I was asking similar questions and the experiences were rare so I took my chances. I live in the Great White North (Saskatchewan) and have a '91 which I've had since 2001. It currently has about 200k miles on it .. 120k of those I've put on myself over the 16 years of ownership and I estimate that about 25k-30k have been winter miles. Until a year or two ago, I drove it daily all year 'round.

Now, as you may know, salt is most effective when the temperatures are near freezing or slightly below and we don't get a lot of those kinds of conditions .. mostly early fall and late spring .. but they do salt here when conditions are right and I have driven in lots of salted slushy snow. My car also went from a cold garage (mine) to a heated underground space (work) daily, so any snow clinging to the car quickly melted into a wet, salty brine .. worst case scenario. However, in 16 years, I have not seen any areas on the body of visible corrosion. I got a second set of OEM 'fat five' wheels for my winter tires but the salt has also had a minimal effect on them although it wasn't as kind to a set of '94 OEM chrome wheels I have although most people have issues with the chrome ones peeling anyway. I had the front to back coolant lines replaced in 2008 and the mechanic swore a bit about working on 'Canadian cars' but I gather it wasn't much different than working on other Canadian Acuras. Oddly enough, the only corrosion I've seen on parts I see was on the trunk latch and I believe that was caused by salty water in the air before I bought it .. it was a Southern California car for most of the first 10 years.

Oh, and if you're going to ask about the impact of cold temps, don't even question it. My car has sat outside multiple times at temps down to -40 and has started without assistance with just a regular battery. I did install a block heater but rarely used it. I've also driven it on the highway for 5 hrs at -36 without issues but I'd recommend first blocking the grill area in front on the rad. Nice and cosy inside. Winter tires are a must as is Mobil 1. So, don't sweat it .. it works as well as any other Honda. Disclaimer: I bought my car to enjoy the drive; not to be driveway jewelry.

 

[imflipside]

I'm guessing you're not going to get a lot of responses as most owners are afraid to drive in the rain let alone in the winter.

I expect the general consensus here is the same as you'll find at Ferrarichat: best to put the car on a pedestal and only drive it on warm, sunny days.
While that might make for a good investment, I think it's a waste of a good driver's car.

I loved that Rowan Atkinson drove his McLaren F1 often - if you have a great car, use it!

When I lived in Ontario I daily drove my NSX (yes, even when it rained and snowed). I'm in Nova Scotia now and I continue to drive it in any weather. The car always performs beautifully (on sticky summer tires during warm months and snow tires when it gets cold). My car is in an unheated garage and it shows no signs of corrosion after 7 years. I buy cars to drive, not just look at, and I've found the NSX to be a great car for all seasons. As long as there's less than 4" of snow on the road I have no concerns about driving in the winter (just watch out for other drivers, they might have a hard time seeing you behind snowbanks because the NSX is so low).

I don't block my rad when it's cold and I always have lots of heat.

It's okay to drive your NSX whenever you want; that's what it's made for.

 

[jwmelvin]

Seeing the pictures on Kaz’s blog of the UK cars has always made me wonder what happens there. So rusty and corroded. I drove my old NSX in Mid-Atlantic snow and it didn’t seem to take much of a beating. But I tried to be good about washing the underside pretty frequently and not driving during the worst of the salt.

 

[goldNSX]

Corrosion of aluminium will be possible but the most annoying thing is the bubbling paint where it corrodes. It looks really nasty. Moisture is not the problem by itself as you can drive it during rain but moisture acts as a perfect agent for the salt to to the damage. Unless you cover the exposed areas with grease and fill every single stone chip on the aluminium panels you'll run into problems with the paint sooner or later. This is very hard to prevent on where the plastic parts contact the aluminium parts. While driving these parts move to each other and rub the paint off the parts. You have to dismount the bumpers to get to those areas.

A paint job on the NSX will cost more that a used vehicle for the winter.

If you're going to drive your red car in the snow you'll be able to shoot some fanatastic and rare pics we'd like to see!

 

[jeffreygebhart]

I expect the general consensus here is the same as you'll find at Ferrarichat: best to put the car on a pedestal and only drive it on warm, sunny days.
While that might make for a good investment, I think it's a waste of a good driver's car.

I loved that Rowan Atkinson drove his McLaren F1 often - if you have a great car, use it!

When I lived in Ontario I daily drove my NSX (yes, even when it rained and snowed). I'm in Nova Scotia now and I continue to drive it in any weather. The car always performs beautifully (on sticky summer tires during warm months and snow tires when it gets cold). My car is in an unheated garage and it shows no signs of corrosion after 7 years. I buy cars to drive, not just look at, and I've found the NSX to be a great car for all seasons. As long as there's less than 4" of snow on the road I have no concerns about driving in the winter (just watch out for other drivers, they might have a hard time seeing you behind snowbanks because the NSX is so low).

I don't block my rad when it's cold and I always have lots of heat.

It's okay to drive your NSX whenever you want; that's what it's made for.

Ian, Darren, jwmelvin, and goldnsx, I appreciate your thoughts! I smiled when I noticed that half of the respondents to my question reside in Canada! I don't plan on driving in salty conditions...this was hopefully an isolated incident. I'm essentially wondering whether having driven over a salted bridge if my car is now "on the
road to rust" or not, and it sounds as if it (hopefully) isn't. Ian, Darren, and jwmelvin, as I understand it you all
exposed your cars to the salt to some degree yet your cars haven't begun corroding away.

 

[NSX2398]

Ian, Darren, and jwmelvin, as I understand it you all
exposed your cars to the salt to some degree yet your cars haven't begun corroding away.

Mine has been exposed to salt for 16 winters and I have yet to see a single bubble in any of the paint. Getting sand and small rocks and other road rash kicked up by semi's and trucks has been way harder on it than the salt so far. I have a front bra and 2 mirror bras but at some point, I may have to get the front hood resprayed.

 

[jeffreygebhart]

Mine has been exposed to salt for 16 winters and I have yet to see a single bubble in any of the paint. Getting sand and small rocks and other road rash kicked up by semi's and trucks has been way harder on it than the salt so far. I have a front bra and 2 mirror bras but at some point, I may have to get the front hood resprayed.

Has the salt exposure resulted in any corrosion problems concerning your car's undercarriage (frame/chassis, suspension, wheels, etc.)?
Thanks, Ian.

 

[Mac Attack]

I don't plan on driving in salty conditions...this was hopefully an isolated incident. I'm essentially wondering whether having driven over a salted bridge if my car is now "on the road to rust" or not, and it sounds as if it (hopefully) isn't.

You should be fine. It's a car and was designed for this (the first few model years actually had tire chains as an option in the Acura catalog) :biggrin:

I got caught in the NSX during the polar vortex of 2014 and snowy aftermath making a four day journey across the country. I wasn't concerned with the salt on the roads - It was the rock chips and sandblasting I endured. You try to keep a safe distance in front of you, and everyone sees it as an invitation to cut you off as they overtake each other with 2 MPH speed differential. I was so pissed when I got home that I should have waited 4-5 days until the roads cleared. It cleaned right up... except for the rock chips

 

[mwagner10702]

Is a little salt on the body and undercarriage of the NSX cause for concern or not? Thanks

I wouldn't let the salt sit there for any length of time. I'd wash the undercarriage as soon as I could.

Not sure why anyone would drive their NSX in the snow anyway. There are better cars for winter driving.

 

[NSX2398]

Has the salt exposure resulted in any corrosion problems concerning your car's undercarriage (frame/chassis, suspension, wheels, etc.)?
Thanks, Ian.

The frame and chassis are all aluminum .. the suspension is aluminum .. there's very little on the cast that can rust. And my headers and exhaust are stainless.

 

[NSX2398]

Not sure why anyone would drive their NSX in the snow anyway. There are better cars for winter driving.

Spoken by someone who doesn't occasionally enjoy the fun of a rear-wheel drive car with a defeatable TCS system in low friction conditions.

 

[mwagner10702]

Spoken by someone who doesn't occasionally enjoy the fun of a rear-wheel drive car with a defeatable TCS system in low friction conditions.

You Canadians and your sense of humor . . . .

 

[Mac Attack]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/60493-Pics-of-NSX-s-in-the-snow-lets-see-them!!

 

[jwmelvin]

Not sure why anyone would drive their NSX in the snow anyway. There are better cars for winter driving.

With winter tires it’s actually fantastic in the snow. The only issue can be ground clearance.

 

[imflipside]

jwmelvin just sent me this link: http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?2193-Annual-Service-Cooling-Sys-CL-Hyd-Sys-etc-02&goto=next

Yikes!
The last few pics show a NSX with rust on the intermediate shaft and some other parts - I can't imagine what happened to the car in the pics, my car looks like new underneath...
That is not normal for a NSX (or any car I know of) driven in the snow.

 

[The King]

jwmelvin just sent me this link: http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?2193-Annual-Service-Cooling-Sys-CL-Hyd-Sys-etc-02&goto=next

Yikes!
The last few pics show a NSX with rust on the intermediate shaft and some other parts - I can't imagine what happened to the car in the pics, my car looks like new underneath...
That is not normal for a NSX (or any car I know of) driven in the snow.

If you follow Kaz's blog, you'll see quite a few NSXs that look like that underneath or worse. Damp climate and lots of salt in the air near the coast I guess.

 

[goldNSX]

In that forum you'll also find a few examples of bubbling paint...

 

[jeffreygebhart]

Thanks to everyone for responding to this thread! Mac Attack directed us to another thread, and Ian's post on 2/22/04(!) was especially informative. It sounds as if the NSX can take the road salt (if not carried to an extreme), Kaz's photos notwithstanding. I try to keep my car out of the rain, let alone expose it to snow and salt! It's going into storage soon, and this information will enable me to rest a little easier!

 

[NSX2398]

Beside the salt/corrosion question .. some people may wonder what the impact of cold on the functioning of the car overall and the impact on reliability. I wrote an article for the NSX Driver magazine a number of years ago which attempted to summarize my experiences over a number of years and many miles. I can honestly say that there are only 1 or 2 things I can point to as issues relating to cold weather. The most obvious one was the CD changer which succumbed to the freezing temperatures in the trunk. The other one was I had a rad drain plug fail and start leaking. I've said elsewhere that the car starts and runs at -40; heater works fine; defrost works fine; no apparent impact on timing belt life; etc. No unusual engine issues; I got over 80k miles on clutch; got 200k miles on the clutch slave/master; still haven't replace the brake cylinder; etc but I've had the usual failures that everyone has - Bose amp rebuilds; slow window operation

 

[jazzmann]

With winter tires it’s actually fantastic in the snow. The only issue can be ground clearance.

I'm a little late to the party, but just adding to this. Honcho, my car's previous owner, daily'd it in the Denver, CO winter, snow and all. He had a separate set of winter tires that he switched to, and he said the TCS really helped with the snow. That was the reason he didn't disconnect it despite the recommendation from Kaz that it be disconnected.

As far as the salt goes, when Ben (Daisy Import) went over my car with a fine-tooth comb, he didn't mention anything about corrosion or rust on the steel parts. Personally, I wouldn't worry about taking the NSX out in the snow but I don't need to so I won't. No need to risk what some other idiot might do.

And as someone else said, there are much better cars for the snow - like my S2000. With good snows (Hakapeliita's), that thing's a hoot! It's so perfectly balanced you can get it all kinds of sideways and still pull out of it. I love finding an empty parking lot and drifting it around.

 

[Andr3w]

I drove the nsx last week when there was still salt on the road. Therefore I decided to bring the nsx to the car wash yesterday to rinse the underbody after the salt was gone from two days of rain. I usually wash (touchless car wash) my daily driver weekly or bi-weekly during the winter months to avoid/reduce corrosion. After 9 winters, the body is still rust free and only a couple of small areas of surface rust are visible.


EDIT: I definitely don't recommend driving the nsx in the winter. I'll probably drive it one more this weekend if the roads are dry and put it away for the winter. Just need to fill up the tank and over-inflate the tires a bit.

 

[jeffreygebhart]

Well, the general consensus seems to be that, while it's preferable to avoid the salt we can probably get away with driving on salted roads, and an after-salt exposure wash is not a bad idea. After beginning this thread, this past weekend I was trying to keep up with some friends on a spirited drive (NSXs, Ferraris 430 and 458 and an R8), came around a corner, and low and behold, encountered another heavily salted corner on what had otherwise been a salt-free drive. Not wanting to expose my paint to the so-called "soft cloths" advertised by the local automatic car wash, I instead opted to clean the undercarriage of the car with my own low-tech solution: my lawn sprinkler! Move it around under the car and it does a fine job!

 

[mskrotzki]

Really -- don't worry too much. These pictures were taken over 10 years ago, and my NSX has not melted.

 

[neuronbob]

Well. I now have some personal interest in this. I may have to drive my NSX one way to home soon. Seems like one 200-mile trip on salted Ohio roads won't kill it, as long as I wash the underside of the car upon arrival home. I've already done the other bad stuff people say not to do to your NSX if you want to sell (tracking, driving in the rain, eating--rarely--in it... ), might as well do this, too. It just seems a pain in the ass to trailer it....