Service cost tidbit for those considering another exotic

[Shumdit]

I have been looking into Ford GT's, Lambo Gallardos, and 360 Modenas as I was thinking of adding another ride (not selling the NSX). The 360 pretty much left the arena when I read about $3000 reverse switches, $5500 routine services etc. My thinking was that the Ford GT or Gallardo might be less $$$ service-wise, since neither has a Timing Belt, and the Gallardo is a Glorfied Audi, the GT a glorified....uh, Ford:smile: . The GT is really too new and too few people are actually putting miles on them, so other than 2 hour long oil changes (due to the process of multiple drains and underbody panel R&R) the only costs I have seen much data on was rear tires, which are only made by Goodyear in that size, and are damn expensive, but not enough to take the car off my list. The Gallardo I was interested in, and I found an 04 I really liked. I knew there had been some clutch issues with 04 through mid to late 05 models, so I asked the dealer if it had been replaced (the car has over 10000 miles, and the clutches were lasting as little as 2000-3000 miles in many cases). He offered to fax me the service records, and here is what I discovered. The owner had replaced the front pads and resurfaced the rotors, and done 3 services( all pretty basic looking). He also replaced the tires. Oil filters are about $70.00, brake pads close to $300 (just the front) a brake rotor (which was not replaced, but was quoted) was $700+ and an alignment was $400. In a little more than 10K the owner had spent over $10000 in service costs alone. I think this amount is far more than I would have expected and I think we should all be thankful for the comparatively cheap prices we pay for service. If he had spent $2K I would not have been as shocked, or even $3500 or so with the brakes and tire replacement, but $10K!??!! This on a car that appears to still be on it's original clutch, which is a sign it was not driven hard. I guess when it goes out that will be another 6-10K??? Friggin Crazy!

 

[NSXGMS]

Wow, he's already up to $1.00 per mile for service costs/repairs...

Just goes to show that the $0.60-0.80 per mile formula for service/repairs for the Ferrari I devised isn't that far off and may even be conservative--not to mention the roughly $1.00 per mile straight depreciation cost on exotics like the Ford GT, Gallardo, F360 & F430, etc.

It's very expensive to own these cars. And, like it or not, they are still fairly unreliable to the point where if any of these repairs recurred on any other Ford or Audi there would be a consumer uproar.

The money needed to fix and maintain these cars should absolutely be factored in to the purchase price for any prospective buyer. And you can't finance that.:frown:

Just makes me glad I own an NSX. Can you imagine an HSC on the market now, with performance on par with the Gallardo, Ford GT etc., just as reliable (or more reliable) than the original NSX? And less money and better looking, IMO. :wink:

There's still a market for a reliable, reasonably priced exotic, I think.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Everytime I read on this forum that things for the NSX are "expensive", I am taken aback.... for a used NSX you buy at 30K, then yeah... things are a bit expensive. But After looking at and driving Maseratis, Astons, Ferrari Modenas and Mercedes 600's, this car is just bargain basement cheap. So is its service, and so are its parts.

I am buying one of the most expensive aftermarket exhausts made for the NSX at $2700, and its still HALF what an Eisenmann would have cost for my SL. You think a CTSC is expensive? Try a supercharger package from Kleemann. Its about $20,000 without install. The Renntech CF airbox for the Mercedes 600 is $6000. ECU upgrade? $6500.

A CHIP to adjust the electronic suspension, is $2000. We are not talking coilovers or springs... just a chip.

Don't let me get started on maintenance and depreciation costs. I feel like I am robbing someone everytime I think how little the NSX is going to cost me.

I am a kid in a candy store right now... because I really like this car, and everything I look at is so cheap! Its one of the reasons I cannot stop myself from modding a perfectly good car. Those guys that got a used NSX for 30K... I hope they know what they really have.

 

[NSXGMS]

I am a kid in a candy store right now... because I really like this car, and everything I look at is so cheap! Its one of the reasons I cannot stop myself from modding a perfectly good car. Those guys that got a used NSX for 30K... I hope they know what they really have.

Amen.

 

[johnny010]

FYI - I recently totalled out a Ford GT, see his announcement on the Ford GT forum, and while we were talking, he said he wouldn't buy one again for two reasons:
1) you can't park next to other cars b/c of the really large doors (thus a pain in the a(( to park)
2) he couldn't see out the back side of the car b/c of the HUGE blind spot, and felt that made the car too dangerous while in traffic.

- edit: While the owner and I were talking about the GT, he said the reason he bought it is because, "I made my money here in America, so I bought an American car."

After reading your post, the GT sounds like the winner to me. It really is a great car. You get a lot for your money, and the service isn't too horrible. Plus, you get treated like gold at the Ford dealer (which is important when it does have to go in for service).

His reasons above would NOT steer me away from the car. I wouldn't want to park any high end ride next to other cars, and most sports cars have bad blind spots anyway.

If you want to enjoy a car, and not worry about expensive service, get the GT.

There are brand new GT's running for $165k in my area.

 

[NSXCELERATE]

I was in the same boat as you looking at gallardos, apparently some parts from one of the top end audis are also used on the gallardo and can be had at a much better price from audi, such as rotors and brake pads..There are ways around those high service costs when you are the tech. And the 1,500 dollar oil change can be done at home too, Ive seen the invoice for one it is rediculous. The blindspots in the Murcielago are terrible, you just pray as you switch lanes, from the looks of it gallardo isnt much better. I was lucky and got to drive the Murcielago for a day.

 

[Shumdit]

FYI - I recently totalled out a Ford GT, see his announcement on the Ford GT forum, and while we were talking, he said he wouldn't buy one again for two reasons:
1) you can't park next to other cars b/c of the really large doors (thus a pain in the a(( to park)
2) he couldn't see out the back side of the car b/c of the HUGE blind spot, and felt that made the car too dangerous while in traffic.

- edit: While the owner and I were talking about the GT, he said the reason he bought it is because, "I made my money here in America, so I bought an American car."

After reading your post, the GT sounds like the winner to me. It really is a great car. You get a lot for your money, and the service isn't too horrible. Plus, you get treated like gold at the Ford dealer (which is important when it does have to go in for service).

His reasons above would NOT steer me away from the car. I wouldn't want to park any high end ride next to other cars, and most sports cars have bad blind spots anyway.

If you want to enjoy a car, and not worry about expensive service, get the GT.

There are brand new GT's running for $165k in my area.

I saw a 05 Yellow with stripes with 568 miles go for less than $146 a few weeks ago (even though I know this is a rare deal at this point), and I think you can actually pick one up new for $160 or less with options if you look hard enough. My main reservation about the doors is not that you will park next to someone, it's that no matter where you park, some A-hole will think he needs to park next to you (maybe to casually look at the car, or maybe because he thinks his 89 Civic with a primer body kit is an equally exotic car). So you come out of the store, etc. and cant get into your own friggin car until that ass shows up to move his. I guess for an extra $12 you can get the lambo style door conversion from Gennadi Design .

 

[TURBO2GO]

I have never driven a GT, shumdit have you been in one? This looks like a great car for what it costs. Its rarity and the fact that they are no longer made appeals to me. Should this car not start to appreciate at some point?

 

[Shumdit]

Sat in one yes, driven or ridden in one, no:frown:

The view out the back is pretty bad from what I recall, and the A-pillars are also larger than I would prefer. Still, it has the looks (except that friggin rear bumper) and I certainly the "IT" factor going for it. I think in total there will have been about 4200 built by the time production ends this month, and considering how much more likely these are to be totalled with the power these things generate, I would say that the car should be a collectible sometime in the future, unless Ford comes out with a Cobra redo like the concept. This is not real likely, given the current financial siutation they are in. I think they will depreciate for a few years, and then start levelling off like the NSX. I do not think you will see one for less than 80-100K in the next 5 years unless it has "issues". I do see $120-130 or so possible in the next 2 years for higher mileage cars, which seem to be few at this point, given the impracticality of these cars for daily drivers and the desire to keep prices propped up by keeping mileage down a la Ferrari.

 

[Osiris_x11]

mirage...

I was in the same boat as you looking at gallardos, apparently some parts from one of the top end audis are also used on the gallardo and can be had at a much better price from audi, such as rotors and brake pads..There are ways around those high service costs when you are the tech. And the 1,500 dollar oil change can be done at home too, Ive seen the invoice for one it is rediculous.

I wonder if the brake-pads are of the same compound/material? Size is one thing, composition is another. I just mention this because as many know the NSX & Legend have very similar and potentially share-worthy oil-filters (though the NSX filter is longer & vehicle-specific), the Integra/RSX have similar sized and cross-listed OEM part numbers for brake pads that are used by the NSX (though the NSX pads have a more aggressive & 'biting' compound), etc'...

Gallardo, though has come a long ways from what a Lamborghini used to be. The Audi-donated climate-control, trip-computer, and stereo atleast make those particular systems less prone to idiosynchatic failures, lol! :biggrin:

I always keep an eye-out for the 'hidden' foreign service/repair shoppes, akin to a barber of fore'gone era or a diner w/ the sweetest pecan pie & robust coffee around. Finding the right shoppe w/ the right mechanic can make owning a cherished, yet maniacally treacherous auto the experience of a lifetime (ie. Aston Martin, Jaguar, Lotus, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, DeLorean, classic Cadillac, Stingray 'Vette, etc').

 

[Shumdit]

Re: mirage...

I
I always keep an eye-out for the 'hidden' foreign service/repair shoppes, akin to a barber of fore'gone era or a diner w/ the sweetest pecan pie & robust coffee around. Finding the right shoppe w/ the right mechanic can make owning a cherished, yet maniacally treacherous auto the experience of a lifetime (ie. Aston Martin, Jaguar, Lotus, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, DeLorean, classic Cadillac, Stingray 'Vette, etc').

We do not have any shops here than can spell Lamborghini, much less work on them.

 

[KooLaid]

There are brand new GT's running for $165k in my area.

Hell, in the ford dealer in my hometown where I'm visiting right now (merced, ca) they've got a red w/ white Ford GT. When i just asked what they were looking to get for it, I 'bout pissed myself when I heard "$300,000". Gotta be kidding me.....

 

[Shumdit]

Hell, in the ford dealer in my hometown where I'm visiting right now (merced, ca) they've got a red w/ white Ford GT. When i just asked what they were looking to get for it, I 'bout pissed myself when I heard "$300,000". Gotta be kidding me.....

Dealers were getting that a year to 18 months ago when people with more money than sense were buying them, but only a true super dumbass would walk in and give more than a few K over sticker at this point. The funny thing is the cars people were paying 230-300K for were 10K less MSRP than they are now! Base MSRP was $139995.00 until late 05 production. I see most going for MSRP at this point and think even that will drop shortly to where you can get one for $3-5K under MSRP without too much looking.

 

[rowr]

Shumdit...

Could you elaborate on some of the service costs that you found on the 360?

Thanks,
Charles

 

[Shumdit]

Shumdit...

Could you elaborate on some of the service costs that you found on the 360?

Thanks,
Charles

Ferrari Chat has a lot of info about services. Things that really jump out are $34000 for brake replacement (pads and rotors) on the 360CS, along with the 360 F1 reverse switch which is made of "pot metal" and is easy to break apparently. It is a 2500-3000 part depending on who is quoting it. Oil changes on 360's are $400-800 (again, depending on who you ask), and F1 tranny pumps (which are prone to failure at a level that would not be acceptable on most cars) are $15000-16000 for the part on the 355, but for some reason is a much more reasonable (if still to friggin high) $3000 on the 360's.

Here is an independent dealer's prices (which many of us do not have the luxury of having an independent to go to, not to mention many Ferrari dealers/owners blackball cars that are not serviced at Ferrari dealers, so you will lose more on resale if you save on the service):
http://emelbon.tripod.com/eugeniosferrariservice.html

 

[rowr]

Ferrari Chat has a lot of info about services. Things that really jump out are $34000 for brake replacement (pads and rotors) on the 360CS, along with the 360 F1 reverse switch which is made of "pot metal" and is easy to break apparently. It is a 2500-3000 part depending on who is quoting it. Oil changes on 360's are $400-800 (again, depending on who you ask), and F1 tranny pumps (which are prone to failure at a level that would not be acceptable on most cars) are $15000-16000 for the part on the 355, but for some reason is a much more reasonable (if still to friggin high) $3000 on the 360's.

Here is an independent dealer's prices (which many of us do not have the luxury of having an independent to go to, not to mention many Ferrari dealers/owners blackball cars that are not serviced at Ferrari dealers, so you will lose more on resale if you save on the service):
http://emelbon.tripod.com/eugeniosferrariservice.html

Thanks for the info. I've been lurking over at Ferrari Chat for a bit now, and wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything.

Was originally considering a 355, but after talking to alot of the F-car owners, their suggestions were to wait and look at 360's (with all the valve guide and header issues there are on the 355).

It's still an expensive proposition especially with, as you mentioned, how the dealers do the blackball thing in buying, purchasing and repair service.
Hopefully, I'll brain fornicate the 360 idea to death, lose interest and forget about it. Making the decision to go with mods on the NSX doesn't seem so bad now in comparison!:biggrin:

 

[sjones]

Ferrari Chat has a lot of info about services. Things that really jump out are $34000 for brake replacement (pads and rotors) on the 360CS........................[snip][/url]

$34K for new pads and rotors? I know the CS is special but thats insane!

 

[PoohBEAR]

Justin switched to a 360 for a year now and I know he is around here somewhere lurking....I am sure he can chime in on this. .....

 

[zahntech]

$34K for new pads and rotors? I know the CS is special but thats insane!

I think he ment $3,400 even an Enzo brake job doesn't cost 34k:biggrin:

 

[docjohn]

No,, it really is 34k for a complete carbon brake system on the cs Of course there are some deallers that offer a better deal-try 18k and others that do charge the full 34k.

 

[zahntech]

How many 360s are sold in the "cs" version?

 

[AU_NSX]

No,, it really is 34k for a complete carbon brake system on the cs Of course there are some deallers that offer a better deal-try 18k and others that do charge the full 34k.

I'm not exactly sure as far as Ferrari is concerned, but would that 34K be the outright buy price and 18K be the option price should you opt for them when you purchase a brand new Ferrari. (then they give you a rebate on the standard brakes)?

I'm only going off Porsche pricing for the ceramic/carbon brakes BTW which are those exact prices in AUD $ down under...

 

[Ski_Banker]

Dealers were getting that a year to 18 months ago when people with more money than sense were buying them, but only a true super dumbass would walk in and give more than a few K over sticker at this point. The funny thing is the cars people were paying 230-300K for were 10K less MSRP than they are now! Base MSRP was $139995.00 until late 05 production. I see most going for MSRP at this point and think even that will drop shortly to where you can get one for $3-5K under MSRP without too much looking.

Admitedly, I haven't been looking at the Ford GT market, but I THINK that this would be a good strategy if you want one now:

1. Search for large/high volume Ford dealerships in rural areas. I think that NSXs were allocated usually based on overall sales volume, so big dealerships would be more likely to get them. Target rural areas where most sales volume is in TRUCKS (midwest farm towns, for example).

2. Look at production numbers to see how long a dealership has been sitting on its $130k piece of inventory.

3. Make your offer to the dealership that has been sitting on one the longest (probably most likely in truck-heavy rural areas with less $$).

Pretty much common sense.

 

[Shumdit]

I'm not exactly sure as far as Ferrari is concerned, but would that 34K be the outright buy price and 18K be the option price should you opt for them when you purchase a brand new Ferrari. (then they give you a rebate on the standard brakes)?

I'm only going off Porsche pricing for the ceramic/carbon brakes BTW which are those exact prices in AUD $ down under...

All I can say on the pricing is a member who had to replace his on the CS said his bill was just over $34000 for the job. That's all I know. The Enxo is more than that if you have to replace the rotors like this guy did.

 

[Shumdit]

Admitedly, I haven't been looking at the Ford GT market, but I THINK that this would be a good strategy if you want one now:

1. Search for large/high volume Ford dealerships in rural areas. I think that NSXs were allocated usually based on overall sales volume, so big dealerships would be more likely to get them. Target rural areas where most sales volume is in TRUCKS (midwest farm towns, for example).

2. Look at production numbers to see how long a dealership has been sitting on its $130k piece of inventory.

3. Make your offer to the dealership that has been sitting on one the longest (probably most likely in truck-heavy rural areas with less $$).

Pretty much common sense.

The main issue seems to be this:
Even dealers sitting on 05's are either foolish enough to think they can still get $15000-$40000 over MSRP, or they know a larger dealer who sells more GT's (there are a few well known ones like Lone Star Ford and Mall of Ga. Ford) will pay them close to MSRP for it.