• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Starting engine build Need suggestions on pistons etc.

Joined
24 November 2006
Messages
501
Location
Florida
Planning future engine build Need suggestions on pistons etc.

Hi guys I am planning for future engine rebuild next year on my 92 NSX BBSC supercharged on E85 15lbs of boost 508 RWHP

I am planning on making up to 650HP can I get away with
1) upgrading the pistons ""Need Suggestions thinking CP pistons
2) use factory connecting rod with upgraded Arp bolts or should I upgrade thinking Oliver Rods
3)Arp head bolts/
4)MLS head gasket
5)Complete Gasket & Bearing /Seals kit
6)Retain oem factory sleeve
7)Retain oem crank
8)Machine Shop to inspect /clean/etc. engine block
9)100 hp nitrous kit
10)19/20 lb pulley for BBSC

Again my issue here is what pistons /compression ratio would be best for this set-up .Also what is the max hp rating for the oem connecting rods is anyone here making 650 hp or higher on the oem rods?
 
Last edited:
Is your setup intercooled ? I would consider adding inconel exhaust valves, stiiffer valve springs and stronger retainers as well.
 
I've spec'd a 1000HP engine build in the LS2, nothing yet for the NSX, but the principles are really the same.

Definitely upgrade all of the bolts to at least an ARP2000.

I learned about the different piston options when my factory pistons in the GTO finally cracked and melted from the supercharger. It was expected.

6200d1260898772-somethings-wrong-my-ls2-img00248.jpg


If I wanted to focus on any FI applications I would go the route of the 2618 alloy.

73670036.JPG

73670016.JPG


The "4032" performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%. 4032 is a high-silicon, low-expansion alloy. Pistons made from this alloy can be installed with tighter piston to bore clearance, resulting in a tighter seal with less noise. 4032 is a more stable alloy, so it will retain characteristics such as ring groove integrity, for longer life cycle applications. Relative to 2618, 4032 is a less ductile alloy, making it less forgiving when used with boosted and/or nitrous applications. This means that it expands less than a piston with no silicon, but since the silicon is fully alloyed on a molecular level (eutectic), the alloy is less brittle and more flexible than a stock hypereutectic "smog" piston. These pistons can survive mild detonation with less damage than stock pistons.

The "2618" performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines. Both because of the higher than normal temperatures that these pistons experience in their usual application, and the low-silicon content causing the extra heat-expansion, these pistons have their cylinders bored to a very loose cold-fit. This leads to a condition known as "piston slap" which is when the piston rocks in the cylinder and it causes an audible tapping noise that continues until the engine has warmed to operational temperatures. These engines should not be revved when cold, or excessive scuffing can occur. 2618 is used for extreme-duty racing applications such as NASCAR, ALMS, Formula 1.

I spoke with a lot of the piston makers that offer both 2618 & 4032 and they all said that the 2618 will give a larger room to forgive detonation (either from bad tune to failed injectors, etc.). What was conveyed to me is that while the 4032 is stronger than the factory hypereutectic pistons, they can still crack and shatter like my pistons. I also had to replace the head since the piston pieces bounced around in there.

2618 will bend and dent, which in a sense decreases the compression ratio in the problematic combustion chamber. So think of it is self-healing counter measures for mild detonation.

Pics of my Ferrea forged valves which seem to be the only ones that will bend instead of break off in the event that u over-rev ur engine from a mis0shift and the piston and valves "make-love". It's better than the head of the valve breaking off and bouncing around in the combustion chamber, which would be much more destructive to the entire engine. They have some VERY tricked valve design and materials like titanium.

73670028.JPG


73670011.JPG


I've evened upgraded to their beehive shaped forged valve springs (they have double springs too, but that will have more para-static HP loss from greater spring pressures.

73670013.JPG


Heads and pistons are ceramic coated with the 55% thermal transfer.
 
I've always used cp pistons for my setups and never had a problem others are good too. Given that you are using e85 id stick with something around stock compression. If it were me I'd build it completely, sleeved and aftermarket rods, use the stock crank. Build it once and be done. Not to say you can't get away with stock sleeves/rods.
 
Hi guys I am ready to start my engine rebuild on my 92 NSX BBSC supercharged on E85 15lbs of boost 508 RWHP

I am planning on making up to 650HP can I get away with
1) upgrading the pistons ""Need Suggestions
2) use factory connecting rod with upgraded Arp bolts or should I upgrade
3)Arp head bolts/
4)MLS head gasket
5)Complete Gasket & Bearing /Seals kit
6)Retain oem factory sleeve
7)Retain oem crank
8)Machine Shop to inspect /clean/etc. engine block
9)100 hp nitrous kit
10)19/20 lb pulley for BBSC

Again my issue here is what pistons /compression ratio would be best for this set-up .Also what is the max hp rating for the oem connecting rods is anyone here making 650 hp or higher on the oem rods?

Did your stock motor give out or are you just doing a build?
 
Ready for engine build I'm aiming to make up to 700hp now . I get bored quick 500 hp don't cut it anymore these days there's a lot of fast cars in South Florida .

I would think going turbo might be a better way to get the power you are looking for.
 
I would think going turbo might be a better way to get the power you are looking for.

I was thinking the same thing. It would be much safer than trying to make 700whp on nitrous+s/c.

Onestep have you considered a turbo setup? If not what are your objections?
 
Did u get JE pistons?

While doing research for my future NSX engine forged build I came across some more info.

The raw weight of 2618 has a density of 0.1lb/in^3, an ultimate tensile tension of 64000psi, and a hardness of 115 (on the brinnell scale).

4032 has a density of 0.097lb/in^3, an ultimate tensile tension of 55000psi, and a hardness of 120

7075 has a density of 0.101lb/in^3, an ultimate tensile tension of 83000psi and a hardness of 150

What does this mean to you (appart from a boring 3 minutes trying to understand what i'm saying)...7075-T6 aluminium will be much stronger than the others at only a tiny increase in weight....but then again it's all a case of give and take. you want strength, go 7075, you want just the lightest, go 4032

The forged piston industry uses two type of Aluminum alloys 2618 or 4032. The 2618 alloy is used for force induction applications. It has a higher density which makes it stronger, and heavier than the 4032 alloy. The 4032 alloy is used in natural aspirated (NA) applications. It's lighter than the 2618, because you need every mechanical benefit when trying to produce high horsepower numbers with a NA. Both alloys are run with 0.003" piston to wall clearance measure 1.300" from the bottom of the oil control ring.

Rumor has it that forged piston are noisy, but that is not the case with WISECO forged pistons. Wiseco has had less problems in this area then anyone else. As you read above, most of the forged piston manufactures use the same alloy. Noise control comes from the actual shape of the piston. Wiseco machines it's pistons with a barrel on the piston skirt which controls piston slap better then anyone else.

The rings that come with each kit are made by Nippon in Japan which Wiseco is the distributor for in the states. Almost all piston and ring manufactures like Total Seal, JE, Ross, Venolia and others buy these rings from Wiseco. The ring thickness will be 1mm, 1.2mm and 2.8mm.

Check out this DSM engine with Wiseco forged pistons. It handled detonation VERY well.

Head4.jpg

Head3.jpg


After 5 minutes of cleaning
Block1.jpg
 
Last edited:
1st Motor build, gone south, I used CP pistons and Oliver Rods.

2nd motor, in the car now, JE Pistons and Oliver Rods.
3rd motor as a backup, JE Pistons and 3.2 stock rods.
 
Are you sleeving the block ?

I would definitely be considering going turbo down the line .Right now I cant afford dropping the ridiculous amount of money these kits are going for .So far I have accomplished breaking the 500 hp level for over a year now on stock block 15lbs of boost & E85 fuel conversion.A lot of this success is to fine tuning & E85 fuel works miracles .All my parts for the most part were purchased threw this website garage sale section thank God for prime as I never could have paid full price for all the upgrades.

508 Rwhp for just under $7000.00 invested for everything including labor
still made as much power than a $14,000.00 turbo kit

Now Part 2 Engine Build on a budget

1)Oliver Rods Billet Steel
2)SOS Forged Pistons w/xylan graphite squirt coating
3)MLS Head Gasket
4)Arp Head stud kit
5)Lost Motion assembly kit
6)Complete engine rebuild kit gaskets/ bearings /etc.
7)SOS Locking Timing belt tensioner
8)New Timing Belt & water Pump
9)Retain oem crank/sleeves/valves
10)Head shop Rebuild heads valve job etc./
11)Machine shop all necessary block work
12)Performance shop remove replace/tear down/reassemble engine
Grand total out the door around $7700.00 more or less
Goal 600-700 rwhp
Nitrous kit 100hp shot still pend.

I will keep you guys posted on progress Thanks for all the info
BBSC they say it couldn't be done
 
They are lighter than Oliver's by at least 1/2 the weight.
The are strong and been proven to 650 HP
They are the original rods for the 3.2 crank I have in this spare motor.

why stock rods?
 
I agree, and not worth the money.
Which is why I'm using the OEM factory's in this motor build.

yea, I've always felt aftermarket con rods were a downgrade in materials compared to the factory con rods...
 
Back
Top