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stupid timing belt

sahtt said:
One of the crucial differences with the timing belt service is potential to screw your car up, simply put. I just finished this service, including all seals, timing belt idler pulleys, waterpump, etc., on my LS400. The Lexus dealership wants about 2 grand for this parts and labor due to the complex v8, with discounts I purchased all the parts for about 400.00.

However, my LS400 is the last year before they switched over to the interference engine setup. With the NSX, if you do the timing belt incorrectly, it will all go back together perfectly and once you start the car you just 'saved' youself the negative cost of a new engine.

If you attempt it, do so very carefully and double triple check the belt is on correctly. Nothing else you can do will really effect anything besides having to do it over. It gives you confidence in the workings of your car when you go this deep into it mechanically though, that I can contest to.
Click to expand...

Your post is misleading or possibly just confusing. This part in particular:
With the NSX, if you do the timing belt incorrectly, it will all go back together perfectly and once you start the car you just 'saved' youself the negative cost of a new engine.
 
Daedalus said:
Yeah, can't have too many tools. Fundage is the limiting factor for me. I save money where I can.
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/SP-60100.html

I agree--if you've done a belt before, go for it. My strongest recommendation is to turn the crank by hand after installing the belt just for extra peace of mind. You'll know if there's an interference without damaging anything.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link !
 
Hugh said:
That should be clue #1 to find someplace else to do the work. The engine does not need to be removed to replace the timing belt, water pump etc..
Click to expand...
I don't know anyone who works on the NSX who takes the engine out to replace the belt. I know I never would.
 
Whoa, let me update that link. DO NOT BUY THAT TOOL! It is advertised incorrectly and does not fit, except for autos and some '91 MTs. Get the one from amazon--cheaper and, most importantly, it fits. The post is too old to edit. See this thread--there is a link by Xperimental that breaks out which cars use which tools:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67453
 
Last edited:
Hugh said:
That should be clue #1 to find someplace else to do the work. The engine does not need to be removed to replace the timing belt, water pump etc..
Click to expand...

Hugh, thanks for your insight. I'm sure it came from professional experience.


Now, for those who actually need a knowledgeable answer, pulling the engine is the preferred method for mechanics who want to do a thorough job IN ACCORDANCE WITH ACURA'S GUIDELINES. Just because it may not be necessary does not make it wrong or a waste of time. If you choose not to remove the engine, you may miss the chance to see what is going on inside of your block. If my engine had not been removed, we never would have realized that a cam was grinding in its journal due to oil deprivation. What are the odds?? But I do know that if we had shortcutted the whole process, the end result would have been eventual engine failure.

When taking advice from Prime, take it with a grain of salt. Everybody here is a self-portraite-professional.
 
Larry Bastanza said:
Records for maintenance are not nationally tracked in Acura's database. Only the servicing dealer would have a record of a timing belt change. Good clue is if the water pump is the new version.

HTH,
LarryB
Click to expand...

Larry, have you ever inquired as to why Acura has never set up a global database? It's always bugged the crap out of me and your connections are better than mine.
 
Juice said:
If my engine had not been removed, we never would have realized that a cam was grinding in its journal due to oil deprivation. What are the odds?? But I do know that if we had shortcutted the whole process, the end result would have been eventual engine failure.

.
Click to expand...

This makes no sence.

only removing the cams will show you the bearing surface..and that can be done with or without removing the engine.
 
zahntech said:
This makes no sence.

only removing the cams will show you the bearing surface..and that can be done with or without removing the engine.
Click to expand...

I think he is saying that with the engine out the inspection process was more complete and allowed for the cam issue to be spotted. I can say from my expierience if you have access to a lift and have a desire to do more than just the timing belt (ie...oil pump, headers, clutch, cam plugs, thermostat, hoses, rear springs and struts, sway bars, motor mount hardening or replacement) I would and did pull the engine/trans package. I did it with the help of one person and it did not take that long, now that I have done it I am sure I could do it in about 3-4 hours. The drawback is you will be adding time and other expenses like AC evacuation and recharge unless you leave the AC compressor in and tie it out of the way(hard to do). The plus you will have access to the complete engine bay to clean everything, If you are a clean freak this is a PLUS.

Dave

4799Cleanup1.jpg
 
Ahh...well if you took the motor out and didn't remove the cams you would have removed the motor and still not seen the bearing issue, but if you left the motor in and did remove the cams you would still see the issue.

so his idea that removing the motor saved him a repair down the road is not really accurate.

removing the cams is what allowed the issue to be seen.

I have taken the motor out and left it in...and to be honest for a straight up timing belt and water pump job even with seals I leave it in.

if your going to add a clutch then taking it out is the way to go. IMO
 
CUSTOMER INFORMATION: The information in this bulletin is intended for use only by skilled technicians who have the proper tools, equipment,
and training to correctly and safely maintain your car. These procedures should not be attempted by “do-it-yourselfers,” and you should not assume
this bulletin applies to your car, or that your car has the condition described. To determine whether this information applies, contact an authorized
Acura automobile dealer.
1 of 1 1994 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved BTB 15487-16390 (9405)
May 10, 1994
YEAR MODEL VIN APPLICATION BULLETIN NO.
1986 – 94 ALL ALL
Crankshaft Pulley Holder
(Supersedes 92-029, dated October 6, 1992)
The tools listed in the chart are required to remove and torque crankshaft pulleys. For models after 1994, refer to
the appropriate Service Manual for special tool application.
Tool Number and Name 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94
07JAB-001020A
Holder Handle
ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL
07JAA-001010A
Socket, 17 mm
Int
A/T
Leg
Int
A/T
Leg
Int
A/T
Int
A/T
07JAA-001020A
Socket, 19 mm
Leg Leg Leg
A/T
07JAB-001010A
Holder Attachment,
Pin Type
Int
A/T
Leg
Int
A/T
Leg
Int
A/T
Leg
Int
A/T
Leg
A/T
Leg
A/T
07MAB-PY3010A
Holder Attachment,
50 mm Offset Use with commercially
available socket.
Leg Leg Leg
Int
Leg
07NAB-001030A
Holder Attachment,
45 mm
Use with commercially
available socket.
Leg
M/T
Leg
M/T
Leg
M/T
NSX
M/T*
NSX
M/T
NSX
M/T
NSX
M/T
07NAB-001040A
Holder Attachment,
50 mm
Use with commercially
available socket.
Int
M/T
Int
M/T
Int
M/T
Int
M/T
Int Int
NSX
A/T
Int
Vig
NSX
A/T
Int
Vig
NSX
A/T
Vig
NSX
A/T
* NSX Engine numbers before C30A1-1300798 use 07NAB-001040A Holder Attachment, 50 mm.
NOTE:
• Before using the Crankshaft Pulley Holder tools, make sure that the holder attachment is engaged in the
Holder Handle fully and that the thumb screw is tightened.
• Before using the Holder Attachment, Pin Type 07JAB-001010A, apply molybdenum disulfide grease to the
inside diameter of the tool and the outside diameter of socket 07JAA-001010A or 07JAA-001020A.
• To avoid damaging the sockets, do not use air impact tools with 17 mm Socket 07JAA-001010A or 19 mm
Socket 07JAA-001020A.
92-029
 
DIY all the way.

On any day i would recommend DIY with out hesistation, however, for the timing belt, not just on the NSX but on any Honda where its an interferenace engine, not to scare you or anything but you could bend valves and chip the valve guide and need a new head.

If you have some automotive expereince... ie brakes and suspension stuff you should be good to go. Just make sure your 100% on the initial valve timing and how to get that right. Thats the only tricky part. Besides that, its all taking things off and putting them back on.

Either way, good luck.
 
Aint skeered.
I was an Aircraft mechanic for 20 years and did all the maintenance on my Ferrari 308, including belt changes, till I wised up and got an NSX.
Its the time and tools issues that hold me up and getting my 48 year old but under a car all day.
I know of a guy who bought a 308 out in West TX and is having an oil leak problem and apparently doesnt have DIY skills. WRONG CAR !
 
lightguy said:
I know of a guy who bought a 308 out in West TX and is having an oil leak problem and apparently doesnt have DIY skills. WRONG CAR !
Click to expand...

If he has a fat checkbook and he loves 308s it's just fine for him:wink:
 
Update and a tip;
Try to break the dampener nut loose BEFORE tearing the upper engine down.
If you can and do ; proceede.
If you cant take it too the dealer.
I broke 1 Craftsman 1/2 " breaker bar, socket, and extension before God had pity on me and let that nut loose. It was my last and final attempt.
PS forget the special tool. Put it in reverse, parking brake on and go to town.
 
sahtt said:
One of the crucial differences with the timing belt service is potential to screw your car up, simply put. I just finished this service, including all seals, timing belt idler pulleys, waterpump, etc., on my LS400. The Lexus dealership wants about 2 grand for this parts and labor due to the complex v8, with discounts I purchased all the parts for about 400.00.

However, my LS400 is the last year before they switched over to the interference engine setup. With the NSX, if you do the timing belt incorrectly, it will all go back together perfectly and once you start the car you just 'saved' youself the negative cost of a new engine.

If you attempt it, do so very carefully and double triple check the belt is on correctly. Nothing else you can do will really effect anything besides having to do it over. It gives you confidence in the workings of your car when you go this deep into it mechanically though, that I can contest to.
Click to expand...
Haven't done the NSX yet but I've definitely tackled a LS400 piece of cake! I've done a porsche 928 as well both were extremely easy ill be doing the NSX myself soon as well because i think the previous owner of my car probably lied to me about when the clutch/tb/waterpump was done.
 
Just finished my '96 NSX-T timing belt replacment last Thursday. It's the first major work done on the car. All I did previously was oil changes, brake fluid flush and a thermostat replacement. But, I'm an engineer and my wife will tell you that engineers are, well, different. I have tackled everything from clutches on Corvettes plus valve jobs on Saabs & 240Z's, so I do enjoy playing with cars.

The job took me a very casual 20 hours. Nothing is particularly difficult, other than a few bolts that require dexterity or bionic fingers. Read some of the exchanges I had with "myhui" on the DIY thread entitiled "Can rear engine mount be dmaged when tilting engine during timing belt change?"

Pull down Gary Kentosh's PDF file on the procedure from NSX Prime and read it 5 or 6 times. Also read the equivalent pages in your NSX shop manual, and blend the two procedues to match your model year. Then decide if you want to tackle the job. If you don't like to follow directions, this is not the job for taking shortcuts or skipping one step during the belt tensioning process.

My car has only 47k miles, so I did not change the water pump. Parts cost me $160 from www.magauto.com. Tools cost me $450 - from Honda I bought the fender cover ($142), tappet adjusting tools ($52 total), pulley holder and handle ($118 total) plus from Harbor Freight a 3/4" torque wrench ($70) and a 3/4" socket set ($40). Plus I had to borrow an extra 10" extension for the 3/4" in order to get 18" total extension to clear the suspension.

My local dealer wanted $2k for the job, including valve adjust, water pump replacement and the matching new lower cover. Or about $1600 without doing the water pump. So, I saved about $1k and have all the tools and know it was done exactly right and every bolt went back torqued to factory spec.

But, per my wife's quote, "engineers are different".
Your mileage may vary.:biggrin:

Frank

PS - If you are within driving distance of NJ, we could talk about you using my cranshaft pulley tools.
 
ftuhy said:
So, I saved about $1k and have all the tools and know it was done exactly right and every bolt went back torqued to factory spec...

But, per my wife's quote, "engineers are different".
Your mileage may vary.:biggrin:

Frank...
Click to expand...

Like Frank's wife said, we engineers are different.

Well said

I'd like to think we [engineers] have an uncanny and strick adherence to the perfection of a methodical approach.

Thom
 
I'm due for a timing belt/water pump/valve adjustment AND a clutch job in the spring.

I have access to a hoist, full tools, and a good cert mechanic friend who is helping out and letting me doing it at his shop over a weekend. I've done V6 belts before on some pretty tight engine bays, but I'm new to the NSX.

Of course, we have the factory manuals and prime threads to help us along. I was thinking of doing it 'engine out' since we're fixing both ends of the block at the same time. From past vehicle experience, it's just so much easier to do it with the engine out of the car that even if it takes us a little bit longer it's worth saving the frustration and busted up knuckles.

Does this sound like the right approach?
 
My old man is a television repair man, he has the ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.

Seriously though, I consider my self pretty mechanically inclined. You guys have said that if you have done belts before, it is a "breeze". I have done clutch, timing belt, tranny work on all my other (cheaper) hondas, but I just am too afraid to open the big boy up.

The first time doing a timing belt on my other hondas was very intimidating. You guys that state you have never worked on cars and tackle a timing belt on the NSX, I bow down to you.

When I had my suspension done by Darin at West End, I asked him if that was similiar to my honda civic, and he said it is just a different ballgame here. He said that was very difficult for him. That scared me right there that the suspension was difficult. I could only imagine how much harder the timing belt would be.

I really do think it is just the value that is scaring me. All hondas are the same right? :rolleyes:
 

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