Suspension Prep 4 Tracking

[swbatte]

Hello All,
I'm getting my 92 ready for some track events this year and have installed a Tein RA set up with some 18/17's with Michelen PS2 rubber.

Sway bars have been recomended but again after my search on Prime I'm left with a question.

Which sway bars are most suitable for street track use (70% / 30%)?

Cheers,
Sean

 

[NSX-Racer]

Dali street bars if you drive with street rubber, Dali street/race bars if use sports or race tires. All are adjustable in some range.

 

[Edgemts]

I would suggest any of the stiffer front bars, throw the rear in the recycle bin. :biggrin:

 

[NSX-Racer]

I would suggest any of the stiffer front bars, throw the rear in the recycle bin. :biggrin:

That's not a good advice for every suspension/tire combination. I always liked both sway bars at the track and still do (now with the track only bars).

 

[VBNSX]

Just curious....

When you lowered the car, how did you prevent the rear end link from hitting the axle with the swaybar?

x

 

[swbatte]

I had Sean Hyland Motorsports do the installation. They lowered the car by 30mm and it cleared everything with no problem.

 

[freelance201]

Dali street/track and SOS swaybars will probably work pretty good. The Dali racing one is probably a little excessive since you already have Tein RA installed.
I ran Tein RA with Dali race swaybars before, and it wasn't too fun, back end wants to kick out every single time through tight corner, and that's with the stiffest setting front and softest setting rear.
My suggesion is to run with just stock swaybar, which is what I have, and works out pretty well. Or you can get a beefier front swaybar if your car oversteers more than you like.

 

[titaniumdave]

I am running the Dali street/track bars on my car, front in the firmest setting, rear in the next to softest setting. I keep softening the rear bar and I think I will be using the stock bar by the end of the summer. I find with RA-1's the car likes less rear sway all the time as I get used to the grip, plus having 235 front tires really lets the front grip the way the car should. I find with street tires I do like having more rear sway than with the R compound, plus my street tires are too fat on the back(215/275) so some extra sway helps to compensate for that.

The best way to answer your question about what you should do would be to drive some cars with different set ups. Sways are only a small part of the whole equation of handling. I always tune in this order once ride height is set:

tire pressure
shock damping
alignment, camber and toe
tire size(within the same model/brand),
sway bars

IMO the sways are pretty far down on the list and lots can be done before you get there. The set up also changes with tires too...what is your current alignment?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

hi Sean --

Based on my experience, the TEIN spring rates will eliminate sufficient body roll such that the only benefit adjustable bars will give you is slight tuning in handing. I do not recommend using an overly thick bar, especially in the rear as you will begin to hurt the performance of the suspension (bigger is not better in this regard). As Dave mentions, the suspension is integral to many things including the tires.

I would recommend changing the rear spring rates on the TEIN. The supplied spring rates do not offer optimal balance, in my opinion.

Before the anti-sways, I would consider the non-compliance toe links and bushings which make a far more substantial improvement in handling:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...mance_products/NSX/suspension_accessories.asp

These make the most impactful improvement for rear end control. They are the best "handling" mod I can recommend.

Have fun!

Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[VBNSX]

Just to actually go back to the question..

On your RA's, did you try corner weighting the car? The stock ride height that they offer is kinda wack when you look at the actual numbers. That and what Chris said about the 12# rear spring.. may want to consider changing that out. Don't forget to align the car after the corner weighting....

I use the comptech bars which have served really well...

only issue is when you lower the car a fair amount and have the front r bars...

I have all the hardware to fix that though.. good stuff.. :biggrin:

pm if curious.


x

 

[swbatte]

No, I have not corner weighted the car. I had Sean Hyland do a 4 corner alignment:

Front:
Toe Out: 0.09in to 0.13in, Camber -0.25 deg +/-0.25, Caster 8deg

Rear:
Toe Out: 0.15 in to 0.11in, Camber -1deg +/- 0.5

The car so far seems to grip better, still understeers slightly, but will rotate easier with a little throtle in the corner.

 

[ncdogdoc]

The thing about sway bars that most do not realize is that all aftermarket bars increase a higher percentage in the rear than in the front. Check the numbers here on Prime or on Dali's site. So any "change" will lead to more play in the rear no matter what hole they are tied to.

I think getting use to the Teins would be first. The spring change in the rear as Chris and Xavier have mentioned would be good. A type R bar in the front only (since that is the only way it is sold) would be my next suggestion if you still want a little more level cornering.

Any stiffer and you will need to maximize your negative camber in the front to prevent understeer or overheating your front tires. Larger tires up front as Dave mentioned will also help in this regard, unless you are a cheap bastard like me and still run the stock 15" front wheels.

 

[ncdogdoc]

I just saw your alignment specs.

That is toe IN for the rear, not toe OUT, right?!?!?!?

I would dial more negative camber, but that is just me. I run 1.3 degrees on the street car and 1.8 on the track car(max I can get without offset bushings).

 

[swbatte]

No, I have not corner weighted the car. I had Sean Hyland do a 4 corner alignment:

Front:
Toe Out: 0.09in to 0.13in, Camber -0.25 deg +/-0.25, Caster 8deg

Rear:
Toe Out: 0.15 in to 0.11in, Camber -1deg +/- 0.5

The car so far seems to grip better, still understeers slightly, but will rotate easier with a little throtle in the corner.

Correction-

Rear Toe in: 0.15 in to 0.11in, Camber -1deg +/- 0.5

SB

 

[VBNSX]

No, I have not corner weighted the car. I had Sean Hyland do a 4 corner alignment:

Front:
Toe Out: 0.09in to 0.13in, Camber -0.25 deg +/-0.25, Caster 8deg

Rear:
Toe Out: 0.15 in to 0.11in, Camber -1deg +/- 0.5

The car so far seems to grip better, still understeers slightly, but will rotate easier with a little throtle in the corner.

Interesting how you mention that it understeers slightly. With the RA's and the 10/12 setup, I would imagine that you'd still be prone to more oversteer. What track(s) are you trying this on?

Only reason I mention that is b/c the only time i feel a slight understeer is when there is a suttle downhill elevation change... other than that I don't see it much anywhere else.... but as you mentioned, throttle may help alleviate that.

In your alignment specs the range is interesting... what's up w/ the range?? I usually take mine to acura and try to get it as precise as possible.... although it is all slightly relative i imagine you have to have a print out of some sort right?

front:
toe:-.07
camber: -2.0
caster: 8.4

rear
toe: .10
camber: -2.1 (would've been -2 but that's all I could pull)

x

 

[swbatte]

Right now, I have the 10/10 spring combo on the RA's.

The alignment specs were directly from the print out that the shop provided me when they were complete. They use a computerised 4 wheel laser rack for their alignments and build and set up pro race cars all day long. Can't explain much more than that.

My impressions are compared to my previous stock set up with stock rubber on 15/16 rims. Now I have the Michelen PS2's on 17/18's. I haven't been to a track with much elevation change yet.