Swap T04S for GT35R/GTX35R/Precision Billet Turbo with DBB?

[nsxinkl]

Currently I have the prospeed turbo kit with garrett T04S turbo with T3 4-bolt exhaust housing and 0.63 turbine housing. I wanted a GT35R with this kit but for reasons best forgotten, I ended up with the T04S.

I have just bought a set of Lovefab FI headers to replace the topspeed headers that I have on my nsx now. Since I am changing the headers, I thought I might as well change the turbochargers too.

I need opinion and advice on whether I should change the turbocharger and if I should change it which turbocharger I should get. I am thinking of getting GT35R, GTX35R or a billet precision turbocharger with double ball bearing (advice on sizing will be much appreciated).

Ideally, I would like to boost it up to a maximum of 15psi (9psi for cruising and 12 psi for spirited drive) and extract not more than 600rwhp from my partially built engine. I understand, the new turbos which I am considering can spool faster and produce more top end rwhp and torque than the Garrett T04S.

Ease of swapping the old turbocharger for the new one, cost and whether the new turbocharger can help achieve my power target are all factors which will be considered.

TIA.

 

[nsxinkl]

70 views and yet no advice? Come on where are the turbo experts?

Cody, STMPO, Angus, prospeed, FXMD, Flexer, hybrdthry911, metalspikeracing etc.......

Please be more generous with your knowledge on turbo and FI..... :smile:

I don't know much about this topic at all. As far as I know, I am the only NSX owner running a "3 in 1" turbo kit. Started with Prospeed turbo kit (which came with the garrett T04S even though i wanted a GT35R, then i added the methanol injection kit from Angus and now I am going to install lovefab's FI headers.

I am still experimenting and hope that the turbo gurus out there will help me out.

TIA

 

[kookoo4nsx]

You could start by stating your current rwhp and any engine mod's, injector size and EMS or F/IC?

 

[nsxinkl]

You could start by stating your current rwhp and any engine mod's, injector size and EMS or F/IC?

490 rwhp, low compression forged pistons, arp studs, 750cc injectors, aem ems.

TIA

 

[mrbozo]

490 hp at what psi? I am guessing 9 psi or 10. What fuel pump? Any and ALL mods. Who tuned it.

 

[nsxinkl]

490 hp at what psi? I am guessing 9 psi or 10. What fuel pump? Any and ALL mods. Who tuned it.

14psi. Walbro 255lph fuel pump. Tuned in malaysia. 30celsius all year round.

 

[mrbozo]

sounds like a very conservative tune! I am not as Knowledgeable as others on this forum ,however I know every engine is different and no one is likely to give you a definite answer,so the only way to surely know is to make the change and log the results. Maybe someone else with more knowledge of the change in turbos can let you know, but it looks like there is more in your setup with a different tune.

 

[Flexer]

I'll bite. Tell me exactly what whp you hope to make and at what PSI and I will tell you what turbo its going to take to get it.

JUST REMEMBER:

Like life, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you want more power up top you have to give it up down low.

If you want more power down low you have to give it up up top.

The TO4S you have right now is a fine turbo. You seem to be making good power with it. The only reason I would change is if you wanted more power down low or more power up top, but like I said that will not be free power. You will have to give something up.

Tell me more of your goals and then I will try and give you an oppinoin.

JR

 

[nsxinkl]

I'll bite. Tell me exactly what whp you hope to make and at what PSI and I will tell you what turbo its going to take
JR

Hi JR,

My current dyno is as follows:

I would like to make between 550 to 600 rwhp at max 15psi with more torque at the lower end. :biggrin: Currently, I have topspeed headers (which will be swapped to Lovefab FI headers) with coolingmist methanol injection starting from 6 psi.

:smile:
TIA

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Currently I have the prospeed turbo kit with garrett T04S turbo with T3 4-bolt exhaust housing and 0.63 turbine housing. I wanted a GT35R with this kit but for reasons best forgotten, I ended up with the T04S.

I have just bought a set of Lovefab FI headers to replace the topspeed headers that I have on my nsx now. Since I am changing the headers, I thought I might as well change the turbochargers too.

I need opinion and advice on whether I should change the turbocharger and if I should change it which turbocharger I should get. I am thinking of getting GT35R, GTX35R or a billet precision turbocharger with double ball bearing (advice on sizing will be much appreciated).

Ideally, I would like to boost it up to a maximum of 15psi (9psi for cruising and 12 psi for spirited drive) and extract not more than 600rwhp from my partially built engine. I understand, the new turbos which I am considering can spool faster and produce more top end rwhp and torque than the Garrett T04S.

Ease of swapping the old turbocharger for the new one, cost and whether the new turbocharger can help achieve my power target are all factors which will be considered.

TIA.

The t3/t04s name can get a little tricky, people can use this for different turbochargers. T04s is merely a compressor cover. Some people have called a t3/60-1 turbo a t04s which uses a 60mm wheel, as well as a t3/gt40 which actually used a 61mm gt35r compressor wheel with a normal garrett t3 hot side. You can even put a t04s compressor cover on a gt30r. If its a garrett there is a tag on the center section with a number xxxxxx-x, if you could get this number off the turbo, that would help me with telling you what gains you might have with different turbochargers.

You can get a gt35r/gtx35r that will bolt up to everything you have now with the only difference being the addition of water lines. The GTX35r is a 62mm billet wheel unit and is capable of 700+. The gt35r is a 61mm turbo and can make 600whp, but typically at higher boost levels ~20psi or greater as this is close to the limits of the gt35r. 14psi seems like a lot of boost for 490whp, could be a low reading dyno, a smaller of the t04s', or maybe the old headers were very restrictive, its hard to say. Personally if i were going for 600+whp i would get the gtx35r right off the bat. You might be higher than 15psi(mostly because of the engine because the turbo can do it), but this will get you the best power for spool time. Keep in mind this might not spool up any faster than you old turbo depending on which one it is.

Do you have a dynograph of the old setup you can post up by chance?

 

[MetalSpikeRacing]

14psi. Walbro 255lph fuel pump. Tuned in malaysia. 30celsius all year round.

490rwhp at 14psi and meth? you are missing some power somewhere there.

I think you may be able to squiz another 80whp out of that turbo.. but if you are looking for a faster spool up or you just plain want to change your turbocharger the a 35R would be a good choice;
just pick your trim, it comes in couple different ones.
Water lines, one of the guys here told me that Presicion makes BB cartridges that dont use water lines anymore, amazing!!

After talking with the guys at presicion my next turbo will be one of theirs.

But you defenely have some more power with your current set up.

-MSR

 

[Vega$ NSX]

You won't get 600 whp with a GT35R at 15 psi. I had to go beyond 19 psi to get to 600 whp and even then it was pushing the absolute limits of what that turbo can handle. I have a blown engine to show for it. If you stay with a GT35R realistically you'll see somewhere in the 540 to 560 whp range. But relatively speaking it spools up fairly early (~3500 rpm) so it is a good compromise between big power and turbo lag. I had the option to go to a larger turbo but kept the GT35R because it was a nice balance. I also would recommend going with larger injectors if you are planning on going to 15 psi of boost.

 

[nsxinkl]

You won't get 600 whp with a GT35R at 15 psi. I had to go beyond 19 psi to get to 600 whp and even then it was pushing the absolute limits of what that turbo can handle. I have a blown engine to show for it. If you stay with a GT35R realistically you'll see somewhere in the 540 to 560 whp range. But relatively speaking it spools up fairly early (~3500 rpm) so it is a good compromise between big power and turbo lag. I had the option to go to a larger turbo but kept the GT35R because it was a nice balance. I also would recommend going with larger injectors if you are planning on going to 15 psi of boost.

What do you think of the PTE6262? I would be happy with 550-600 at 15psi and spooling at 3500rpm.
I currently have 750cc injectors. Do i have to upgrade to 1000cc?

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Remember he has a low compression setup. That will account for alot of what you guys are thinking in your head about his 490rwhp. 12psi may get you close to 500rwph with 750 cc injectors but that is with a stock(high comp) motor.

Question for the OP, If you are not happy with 490 rwhp why will you be happy with 550? If your current setup runs good, you may want to consider leaving it alone. If money is no object, get a stroker motor built like Hugh and go 650hp+

 

[Flexer]

Your asking for what I told you you can't have. You can't keep your boost at 15 psi, get more power down low, and have more power up top.

You just can't do it.

So what is more important to you. More power down low, or making more power up top?


JR

 

[doc_tai]

with lovefab's header you probably gain about 20 to 30 whp so turn the boost up couple more psi you can get 550whp. Anything more then 500whp you should get bigger fuel pump. I think 500whp the most I want with my nsx

 

[Adandos]

Looking at our turbo database, the GT35R maxes out on the flow axis at about 590 horsepower.

You never really want to push a turbo to the edge of its map, you'll just end up with a low efficiency setup and a lot of hot air.... hot air can get in you into preignition and some other fun stuff as well...

If you really want 600hp (solidly, not barely) you want to find a turbo that will make 600 in the middle of the map with good efficiency ...

Maybe a GT-40 54trim ...

Check out our complete turbo calculator ... it'll answer your turbo, header and fuel injector, cooling, and fuel pump questions ... rather rapidly.

Please don't rush into this... famous last words "I'm going to turn up the boost" only to later realize you're either out of compressor or out of fuel... trust me on this... I know first hand

 

[mrbozo]

Great article. Why is it the more I learn the less I know.:biggrin: Anybody that says you cant make this hp with this psi really needs to read this. It explains a lot.

 

[Flexer]

Great article. Why is it the more I learn the less I know.:biggrin: Anybody that says you cant make this hp with this psi really needs to read this. It explains a lot.

I guess your comment is right.....if you are suggesting that you can use any size turbocharger, and don't care how in-efficient it is.

 

[nsxinkl]

I bought a precision DBB billet turbo 6265 based on the recommendation of Cody lovefab. I will be upgrading my turbo system with lovefab FI headers and Ypipe.

 

[nils]

You won't get 600 whp with a GT35R at 15 psi. I had to go beyond 19 psi to get to 600 whp and even then it was pushing the absolute limits of what that turbo can handle. I have a blown engine to show for it. If you stay with a GT35R realistically you'll see somewhere in the 540 to 560 whp range. But relatively speaking it spools up fairly early (~3500 rpm) so it is a good compromise between big power and turbo lag. I had the option to go to a larger turbo but kept the GT35R because it was a nice balance. I also would recommend going with larger injectors if you are planning on going to 15 psi of boost.

Also keep in mind that depending on what Dyno you are using (mustang, dynojet, dynapack), numbers will vary ALOT. The Mustang dyno Jon tuned my car on was ridiculously low-reading... and preload was set to high... I think they entered my cars weight at like 3200lbs too... hahha

anyways, all that matters when considering hp numbers...

as far as I see it.. if you can spin your rear tires (265's or bigger) in 3rd gear your making some decent power

A true twin scroll gt35r set up would be ideal for power/spool ratio... a 40's series turbo would be better for 600rwhp goals I think...

 

[nsxinkl]

Installed the new Precision billet DBB turbo 6265 and lovefab y-pipes.

[/IMG]

 

[alpha]

I use many different turbochargers on different applications on a daily basis. I prefer to use Precision Turbo and Engine turbochargers with CEA compressor wheels. The 6265 is a great turbo. Good luck.