The Negatives of the NSX 2.0

[G.Irish]

I was at the unveil and got a chance to interview Ted Klaus as well as talk to some of the Acura folks (on behalf of Temple of VTEC). Here are a few notes/opinions that might clear up some misunderstandings:

Horsepower
For Honda's performance hybrid offerings like the RLX Hybrid, they quote peak combined horsepower output. They don't take the maximum output of each electric motor and add it to the maximum output of the gasoline engine. So for example, the RLX Hybrid is rated at 377 horsepower. The gasoline engine makes 310 horsepower and it has two 36 horsepower motors and a 47 horsepower motor. Added together that would be 429 horsepower. So if the NSX electric motor output is the same as the RLX Hybrid, we could be really looking at 600 horsepower. It just depends on how one looks at things.

They've also outright stated that they designed the engine to have some extra headroom. Does that mean they can still adjust the production power output? Who knows. However there were some other interesting things said about the future that you guys will probably see soon.

Redline
Jeff mentioned the 7500 rpm and Ted looked at him kind of crazy. I forget exactly what he said but it was something to the effect that the true redline goes into the red. So I wouldn't take 7500 rpm as gospel.

Ordering
There'll be a lot more customization options than has ever been available for an Acura and every buyer will get to custom order their NSX. Early in the development of the car they decided to make these cars more bespoke the way some of the other supercars are. You're not going to be stuck with whatever your local dealer orders. No word on what the options will be yet.

Price
No one really talked specifically about price or options but bottom line is that for around $150k the competition is the R8 V10, 911 Turbo, and GTR Nismo. The R8 V10 starts at $175k (the V8 really isn't a match), and just judging from what was talked about, the NSX should be every bit the match for the 911 Turbo and Nismo GTR. Yes everyone would like a car that they themselves can afford but the performance targets were the 458, R8 V10 and GT, and 911 Turbo. Competing with cars like that simply isn't going to be cheap (unless you're the Corvette team).

Even with the next gen R8, I don't think it'll represent a better performance value than the NSX since the new R8 will be based off the Huracan and chances are it will not be allowed to eclipse the Huracan in performance. Funnily enough the Lambo CEO stopped by to check out the NSX.

Transmission
It is a DCT, it has nothing to do with torque converter automatics Honda has elsewhere in their lineup.

Ford GT
That car really stole the show but just looking at the design of the car I would be EXTREMELY surprised if it were around the same price as the NSX. The chassis has some really wild aspects to it that will be hard to produce in volume and it's a pretty big car. To get the weight down they'll have to use a lot of exotic materials. Bear in mind that the last Ford GT was $150k in 2005.

In inflation adjusted dollars that would be $180,000 today. And that car had a much more conservative design than this one, and that car's stated purpose was not to win at Le Mans. I think the Ford GT is going to be quite exclusive and quite expensive.

We'll see if the performance and driving experience live up to the hype in a few months.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I was at the unveil and got a chance to interview Ted Klaus as well as talk to some of the Acura folks (on behalf of Temple of VTEC). Here are a few notes/opinions that might clear up some misunderstandings:

Horsepower
For Honda's performance hybrid offerings like the RLX Hybrid, they quote peak combined horsepower output. They don't take the maximum output of each electric motor and add it to the maximum output of the gasoline engine. So for example, the RLX Hybrid is rated at 377 horsepower. The gasoline engine makes 310 horsepower and it has two 36 horsepower motors and a 47 horsepower motor. Added together that would be 429 horsepower. So if the NSX electric motor output is the same as the RLX Hybrid, we could be really looking at 600 horsepower. It just depends on how one looks at things.

They've also outright stated that they designed the engine to have some extra headroom. Does that mean they can still adjust the production power output? Who knows. However there were some other interesting things said about the future that you guys will probably see soon.

Redline
Jeff mentioned the 7500 rpm and Ted looked at him kind of crazy. I forget exactly what he said but it was something to the effect that the true redline goes into the red. So I wouldn't take 7500 rpm as gospel.

Ordering
There'll be a lot more customization options than has ever been available for an Acura and every buyer will get to custom order their NSX. Early in the development of the car they decided to make these cars more bespoke the way some of the other supercars are. You're not going to be stuck with whatever your local dealer orders. No word on what the options will be yet.

Price
No one really talked specifically about price or options but bottom line is that for around $150k the competition is the R8 V10, 911 Turbo, and GTR Nismo. The R8 V10 starts at $175k (the V8 really isn't a match), and just judging from what was talked about, the NSX should be every bit the match for the 911 Turbo and Nismo GTR. Yes everyone would like a car that they themselves can afford but the performance targets were the 458, R8 V10 and GT, and 911 Turbo. Competing with cars like that simply isn't going to be cheap (unless you're the Corvette team).

Even with the next gen R8, I don't think it'll represent a better performance value than the NSX since the new R8 will be based off the Huracan and chances are it will not be allowed to eclipse the Huracan in performance. Funnily enough the Lambo CEO stopped by to check out the NSX.

Transmission
It is a DCT, it has nothing to do with torque converter automatics Honda has elsewhere in their lineup.

Ford GT
That car really stole the show but just looking at the design of the car I would be EXTREMELY surprised if it were around the same price as the NSX. The chassis has some really wild aspects to it that will be hard to produce in volume and it's a pretty big car. To get the weight down they'll have to use a lot of exotic materials. Bear in mind that the last Ford GT was $150k in 2005.

In inflation adjusted dollars that would be $180,000 today. And that car had a much more conservative design than this one, and that car's stated purpose was not to win at Le Mans. I think the Ford GT is going to be quite exclusive and quite expensive.

We'll see if the performance and driving experience live up to the hype in a few months.

Thanks for the clarification and info!

 

[GBL1]

The NSX needs to have a lower price.

No, it does not. You might WANT it to have a lower price, but that's not for you to decide.

Really, in a way, when you think about it, Honda built a mini version of the LaFerrari here...and that's ten times the cost.

Everyone thought the NSX 1.0 was way over-priced when it came out as well, but then they learned what the car was capable of...then cost-be-damned.

Sure, $61,000 in 1991 dollars is roughly equal to only about $105,000 in 2015 dollars, but there is so much new technology that has to be paid for in the NSX 2.0.

I think the price is fair even though I pegged it at around $140,000.

Reasons I'd want one: to be the first kid on the block with the cool new toy (childish, but at least I can admit that), just to drive the thing and see what it will do...I might be pleasantly surprised.

Reasons I wouldn't want one: the overly busy yet bland fad'ish styling, the goofy-looking way they hide the engine, no manual transmission (I HATE automatics!!!!) and because it just doesn't give me goose-bumps.

I do not plan on buying one. If for some reason I did, I would not respect or treat it as well as I do my white '92. I'd even valet park it.

 

[Hothonda]

No, it does not. You might WANT it to have a lower price, but that's not for you to decide.

Really, in a way, when you think about it, Honda built a mini version of the LaFerrari here...and that's ten times the cost.

Everyone thought the NSX 1.0 was way over-priced when it came out as well, but then they learned what the car was capable of...then cost-be-damned.

Sure, $61,000 in 1991 dollars is roughly equal to only about $105,000 in 2015 dollars, but there is so much new technology that has to be paid for in the NSX 2.0.

I think the price is fair even though I pegged it at around $140,000.

Reasons I'd want one: to be the first kid on the block with the cool new toy (childish, but at least I can admit that), just to drive the thing and see what it will do...I might be pleasantly surprised.

Reasons I wouldn't want one: the overly busy yet bland fad'ish styling, the goofy-looking way they hide the engine, no manual transmission (I HATE automatics!!!!) and because it just doesn't give me goose-bumps.

I do not plan on buying one. If for some reason I did, I would not respect or treat it as well as I do my white '92. I'd even valet park it.

Time takes care of most obstacles....it did with the original anyway.

Acura seem to be a slow learner with most of their recent new vehicle products (MDX /RDX is the exception)

 

[GBL1]

Time takes care of most obstacles....it did with the original anyway

Time also BRINGS obstacles like automatic transmission only...it takes away manual transmissions! >:-(

 

[liftcontrol]

I think HONDA was not out to replace the NSX with a newer version for the drivers of the world.
I think HONDA was out to make a halo car, irrespective of the price, to show their engineering prowess....and they did.
They do not intend to sell many.

It is a shame because the original NSX was a reasonably accessible driver's car where the joy of driving was far in excess of it's pure performance numbers.
This so called NSX is aimed at a different crowd.

 

[SUNLINE]

This picture is one of the best I have seen of the new NSX. I think it looks pretty darn good. I have a feeling it will look even better and more exotic in person. Maybe not as nice as its 250-300K competition, but much better than its 150K competition ie. GTR, P-Turbo, R8

 

[GBL1]

I think HONDA was not out to replace the NSX with a newer version for the drivers of the world.
I think HONDA was out to make a halo car, irrespective of the price, to show their engineering prowess....and they did.
They do not intend to sell many. This so called NSX is aimed at a different crowd.

The complaints are because everyone is taking this all wrong.

What they unveiled in Detroit this week IS NOT an NSX! This new car is no more an NSX than the 1997 and on Volkwagen Beetle was related to be anything like the Beetle of the '40's through the '70's. The new Mini Cooper is the same way: in no way related to it original self.

Resurrecting the NSX name to sell this new car is called marketing and it's a lie. The current Dodge Charger and Challenger, even the Ford GT, are all other examples of this silliness.

The only one that sorta comes to mind as far as giving rebirth to a car is the resurrection of the Nissan Z, but even that is a whole new car even though the spirit was kept intact.

The same as Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc... are all marketing lies shoved down the throats of the gullible public. Each of those namesakes is just a fancier over-priced version of their base parent companies (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Chevrolet, Ford).

Soooo, the NSX is dead, long live the NSX. There will be only one ever NSX. This new creature IS NOT (come on, repeat it with me...), IS NOT an NSX.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool car (with NO MAN PEDAL), that will likely produce some nice performance figures, but it is only an NSX in name courtesy of the marketing department at Honda.

Think of it another way...you have a very loved dog in the family that you've had for years, but he's getting old and going to die. You spend $50,000 to have your dog cloned. Great, you get the same genes, but the new puppy WILL NEVER be the same dog you had and loved.

Sheesh! No more Kool-Aid for ya'll...

 

[drtruong]

From $150K and up, and it is not that exotic look. From the beginning, the car does not have a "Wow" factor ( I have to have one) and it has a lot of chicken wire in the front grill. Toyota FT1 looks better and makes this NSX "just another car" and I can't to see when it comes out in production.

There is no question that FGT is much better, but it is a different animal and price is $400K .....that is in LFA Lexus group.

 

[G.Irish]

From $150K and up, and it is not that exotic look. From the beginning, the car does not have a "Wow" factor ( I have to have one) and it has a lot of chicken wire in the front grill. Toyota FT1 looks better and makes this NSX "just another car" and I can't to see when it comes out in production.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but do you honestly think the 911 Turbo looks more exotic? R8? GT-R? Aston Martin Vantage?

Sure something like the 458 or Huracan is more stunning to look at but in my opinion nothing in the $150k price range looks more exotic than the NSX at this point.

 

[drtruong]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but due you honestly think the 911 Turbo looks more exotic? R8? GT-R? Aston Martin Vantage?

Sure something like the 458 or Huracan is more stunning to look at but in my opinion nothing in the $150k price range looks more exotic than the NSX at this point.

There are a lot of cars in the that price range don't have the look. That includes the ones you metioned above and Lexus LFA as well.

In my opinion, Toyota FT1 ( if they produce it) has more exotic look than NSX and cheaper ( I am talking just the look, not specs).

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but due you honestly think the 911 Turbo looks more exotic? R8? GT-R? Aston Martin Vantage?

Sure something like the 458 or Huracan is more stunning to look at but in my opinion nothing in the $150k price range looks more exotic than the NSX at this point.

I tend to agree that nothing in this price range looks as exotic.

 

[nsxvtecvtec]

http://jalopnik.com/acura-botched-every-single-aspect-of-the-nsx-launch-1679489073

 

[Tai]

The jalopnik article is spot on. I'm afraid that even if the NSX's performance or drivetrain doesn't dissappoint, that it wouldn't matter. The car is such an utter dissapointment in just about every possible way, and the only realy similarity it has to our cars is that it happens to have the same name. It had to be nearly as revolutionary and ground breaking as the original to be a real success, and it's so far off from any measure of excellence, not to mention lack of Ferrari-slaying-ness that I'm afraid it will just go down in the history books of mediocrity, or worse a failure. I hope Honda learns from this mistake, and thinks their next effort through a bit more wisely.

 

[2015 NSX]

Wow - haters will hate (and Acura will sell every NSX they can build)!

 

[areout]

Wow - haters will hate (and Acura will sell every NSX they can build)!

umm they I'm sure they could build much more than they could ever sell, if I got that right they have limited production

 

[Bram]

http://jalopnik.com/acura-botched-every-single-aspect-of-the-nsx-launch-1679489073

Is this suppose to be a Real article....or some idiot rambling about nothing.

Moving on..

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Doug DeMuro bathes himself in self-righteous pessimism every morning, before eating a bowl of Cheerios that his dog has pissed in. You can bet that if the NSX god's dropped a car in his driveway free of charge, he would forever sing its praises. But, only after he did the bathing and breakfast thing first...

 

[MoreRPMs]

It had to be nearly as revolutionary and ground breaking as the original to be a real success, and it's so far off from any measure of excellence, not to mention lack of Ferrari-slaying-ness that I'm afraid it will just go down in the history books of mediocrity, or worse a failure.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell - the original broke new ground, while this one does not (i.e. all the "tech" in it has been already done, whether by Honda themselves, or by other companies). Then again, 2.0's power level doesn't seem to be anemic for the price point; it's just that, at the 150K to 200K mark, no carmaker does any serious volume, and all the competing cars have horsepower in abundance. Yeah, even when some tip the scales at beyond 2 tons.

 

[N Spec]

I was at the unveil and got a chance to interview Ted Klaus as well as talk to some of the Acura folks (on behalf of Temple of VTEC). Here are a few notes/opinions that might clear up some misunderstandings:

Horsepower
For Honda's performance hybrid offerings like the RLX Hybrid, they quote peak combined horsepower output. They don't take the maximum output of each electric motor and add it to the maximum output of the gasoline engine. So for example, the RLX Hybrid is rated at 377 horsepower. The gasoline engine makes 310 horsepower and it has two 36 horsepower motors and a 47 horsepower motor. Added together that would be 429 horsepower. So if the NSX electric motor output is the same as the RLX Hybrid, we could be really looking at 600 horsepower. It just depends on how one looks at things.

They've also outright stated that they designed the engine to have some extra headroom. Does that mean they can still adjust the production power output? Who knows. However there were some other interesting things said about the future that you guys will probably see soon.

Redline
Jeff mentioned the 7500 rpm and Ted looked at him kind of crazy. I forget exactly what he said but it was something to the effect that the true redline goes into the red. So I wouldn't take 7500 rpm as gospel.

Ordering
There'll be a lot more customization options than has ever been available for an Acura and every buyer will get to custom order their NSX. Early in the development of the car they decided to make these cars more bespoke the way some of the other supercars are. You're not going to be stuck with whatever your local dealer orders. No word on what the options will be yet.

Price
No one really talked specifically about price or options but bottom line is that for around $150k the competition is the R8 V10, 911 Turbo, and GTR Nismo. The R8 V10 starts at $175k (the V8 really isn't a match), and just judging from what was talked about, the NSX should be every bit the match for the 911 Turbo and Nismo GTR. Yes everyone would like a car that they themselves can afford but the performance targets were the 458, R8 V10 and GT, and 911 Turbo. Competing with cars like that simply isn't going to be cheap (unless you're the Corvette team).

Even with the next gen R8, I don't think it'll represent a better performance value than the NSX since the new R8 will be based off the Huracan and chances are it will not be allowed to eclipse the Huracan in performance. Funnily enough the Lambo CEO stopped by to check out the NSX.

Transmission
It is a DCT, it has nothing to do with torque converter automatics Honda has elsewhere in their lineup.

Ford GT
That car really stole the show but just looking at the design of the car I would be EXTREMELY surprised if it were around the same price as the NSX. The chassis has some really wild aspects to it that will be hard to produce in volume and it's a pretty big car. To get the weight down they'll have to use a lot of exotic materials. Bear in mind that the last Ford GT was $150k in 2005.

In inflation adjusted dollars that would be $180,000 today. And that car had a much more conservative design than this one, and that car's stated purpose was not to win at Le Mans. I think the Ford GT is going to be quite exclusive and quite expensive.

We'll see if the performance and driving experience live up to the hype in a few months.

Yes, thank you for the insights. I agree with you on the Ford GT. It very flashy (the sweep that wraps around the cockpit is perhaps too dramatic IMO and risky), but I do not think it's more refined than the NSX and the interior needs work. The Ecoboost V6 from Ford is impressive, but Honda has proven to build better engines. Period.

I hope that look Ted gave about the redline question was a good hint at 8K RPM!

- - - Updated - - -

There are a lot of cars in the that price range don't have the look. That includes the ones you metioned above and Lexus LFA as well.

In my opinion, Toyota FT1 ( if they produce it) has more exotic look than NSX and cheaper ( I am talking just the look, not specs).

Too bad it's not mid-engine which is a strong conditon of the exotic look.

- - - Updated - - -

Excellent post. Nice to see some objectivity on this board.

My R8 V10 still excites me, but I will be looking at getting something else to sit next to it in the garage soon. Had thought about waiting to see what the next generation R8 would be like, but now I'm convinced the new NSX cannot be ignored. I bought my two previous NSXs new back in '92 and '94. While I do miss those cars, I think the new one does a great job of maintaining the NSX ethos of combining leading edge technology and engineering for a bargain price.

As for the looks, frankly, it looks stunning. I can't wait to see it in person.

You would be the target customer Acura/Honda is searching for. Not most people here wishing the car was $90-$110K so they can possibly buy it new. Better off going to buy a Corvette if you really think $150K is steep for what the new NSX is offering.

To reinforce what Midnight Raven said, I'm curious to see what the haters have to say when used ones depreciate to 50-60% of the original price and they can finally afford one. There will be some bandwagons jumped. The people who bought the first NSX used on these boards probably would never have paid the $90K for it new with ~300 hp. I will for sure be one of the second hand buyers when the time comes, unless reliability proves to be catastrophic somehow...

 

[95nsxtc]

Thank god for users like latzke and lostbuckeye

How much bitching is left tho? Maybe because I'm possibly one of the younger users on here (for reference, the nsx was released the same year i was born) it gives me a less biased view....
I'm not the biggest fan of how this car looks either but lets talk about the main complaints in a slightly factual manner:

Exterior:
It's not that exotic but it is at the same time, and the more people that don't buy it on here, the more exotic it will become
But in a design aspect, it is similar to the original in this respect
Its exotic in an understated way. the profile is sleek, not very busy and the only exotic real exotic aspect are the cooling ducts. And not in a crazy flashy way either. I could see normal drivers glancing and think its a genesis coupe or a c7 without paying attention. At the same time it could be confused for an r8 or huracan by a non car person. We all know this is something that happens with our NSXs
The front is VERY different looking, which may have been done on purpose by honda to give it more definition as the original NSX front end was almost too understated. I know when driving mine people think my car is a slammed dodge stealth from just seeing the front (as told to me by an esprit driver).
As for the car overall, it will probably look much more exotic on the road, than pictures of it by itself, and sitting next to normal vehicles so you can really get a size reference as well. Personally i thought the audi a5 was ugly in pictures until i saw it in person for the first time, mayb this will have a similar effect for some primers.
And who cares if it's not ferrari-esque, if you want a ferrari, go buy a used 458. I'm just glad no one will think this is a wanna be ferrari now.

Transmission:
You want honda to be behind the curve or ahead.... really... even for a second you thought that they would have a manual for this when even porsche ditched one for the 991 gt3?
The last two sports cars with a manual will probably be the c7 and m4, its 2015, deal with it
The 9 speed dct may have problems, but it is not an automatic

Power & Price:
Whatever it ends up making, it will perform. There were already statements from someone saying it beats the gtr and model s "comfortably" (i forget who)I wouldn't be surprised if it makes 580-600hp, but regardless, it will probably be a reliable powertrain, like we know to love, mayb why the redline is cut back
Even thinking of comparing the c7 z06 isnt right for multiple reasons, mainly it will nvr do what gm claims and they're already having power loss issues, but this leads me to price, that car easliy tops 100k in price
Considering all the extra technology and refinement the new NSX has, it is a bargain at 150, if it stays there, especially for claimed performance

I think this car is being judged way too quickly. The r35 gtr went through similar price changes, the ford gt boys are pissed theres no more v8, the supra guys will be butt hurt when they confirm the turbo 4 cylinder... but they all are, and probably will be, amazing cars

 

[Hothonda]

I understand "qualified dealer" allocations (USA) will use dealer zipcode demographics as one basis for who gets how many to sell.

The "qualified" part hinges on investments in showroom, service equipment and training. Not a small number I was told.

Not all dealers will participate...

Tadge Juechter, Z06 Chief Engineer, was interviewed at the Detroit show by Jalopnik & was asked:

"I know you have been bombed with Ford GT questions, but what about the NSX? It has been on the show circuit forever.
How does it stack up against the Z06? Doesn't stand a chance? Has a fair shot?"

His Reply:

"It's impressive on paper, the proof will be in the first tests. I suspect they'll do a good job."

 

[MvM]

Read the article and YES, there is quite a bit of truth in it.

Honda DID announce the new NSX a lot of times and YES the DID postpone it very time and YES we DID have to wait a long time for it.

And Yes, Ford did pull a nice surprise.

But let's be honest, what is so really new about that Ford GT. It's basically just a sportscar with a ICE engine. Built with a carbon body like the McLaren.
That's not that spectacular anymore. Any decent company can/could do that.
Building a twin-turbo V6 with 600 HP. Also, not that special. The rest is basically putting pieces together.

That new NSX, however late it might be, is promising us a list of new stuff, new engine with hybrid drive, new materials not seen before.

Basically speaking, it makes every current competitor, the Porsche 911 TT, the McLaren 650S, the Ferrari 458 and even the brand new Hurracan an OLD car, build with OLD technology. Just like that Ford GT (however good it looks).

That's the difference.

- - - Updated - - -

And perhaps to offset all the Ford GT news in the US.

On the main car oriented website in my country (Netherlands) (www.autoweek.nl), the Ford GT item got 93 responses, the new Honda NSX already has 233.
And that's for a car Honda only sold 17 pieces of in 15 years time.

 

[liftnot]

I go WOW when I see this. At least the exterior has a lot of resemblance with our car. With the Big Mac Jr. coming out at a similar price range, its a no brainer even if its detuned.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/186980-My-2012-McLaren-12C-Review

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

I go WOW when I see this. At least the exterior has a lot of resemblance with our car. With the Big Mac Jr. coming out at a similar price range, its a no brainer even if its detuned.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/186980-My-2012-McLaren-12C-Review

Pull up the 12C side view next to NSX 2.0 and there really is no comparison - the NSX looks way better. The 12C is boring. Apart form the side vents and the low stance, their really is nothing special about it. And I can't stand the thick A pillars.

When I do the same with the 458 and 650S I still say the NSX looks the best. The 458 and 650S have long noses, very short rear overhangs and not a lot of interesting details. I've seen the 458 in person and wanted to love it but just found is meh.

About the only car that has the NSX beat IMO in terms of styling is the Huracan and that car is not designed from the driver's perspective. Its A pillars are way to far out front and the dash is so far away that it feels like you are looking out a gun slit.

The bottom line is that every car design can be criticized and the NSX looks pretty frickin great.