The Negatives of the NSX 2.0

[Glenn Quagmire]

Wow, nicely done N Spec! It had to take some time to sift through a bunch of images to find the right matches. No doubt that the NSX looks awesome. I've grown tired of the long nosed FR cars and welcome what the NSX embodies. Now, I just have to hope I'll be lucky enough to get my hands on one! Know any good dealers??

 

[nsxtacey]

You're thinking too much like the typical member of this forum, most of whom bought their NSX used. I don't think the used 458 market will have much of an impact on new NSX sales. Most new car buyers WANT A NEW CAR and will not consider a used one.

What about a used McLaren 12C? You can already buy a 2012 12C coupe for around $150,000. The McLaren is more exotic and provides superior performance to the R8 V10. Yet used 12C prices continue to plummet while new R8 sales continue to do fine.

I don't believe most prospective NSX 2.0 buyers will be cross shopping cars like the 458. They are more likely to be considering a car like the R8. A quick glance at Ferrari and R8 message forums confirms this. The R8 owner's reactions to NSX 2.0 has been mostly positive while the Ferrari owner's reactions are mostly negative.

If you give people the choice between a Used 458, a new nsx, or a new R8 the choice is clear after test driving one. Especially if they track it. AWD is great for GT but tracking is not fun at all.

New R8 will be out this year also so given the choice of new R8 or nsx, still more people will get a R8 because Audi has the customer base. For example an A8/S8/S6/S7/RS5/7 owner would consider buying an R8 but getting a tsx or rlx owner to buy a +150k nsx is less likely.

The people that bought new mc12 were just trying to get on the list for the P1, no sense in buying used. But goes to show you after the great Mac F1 didn't help the mc12 sales, people who owned a Mac F1 wanted the P1.

 

[Lostbuckeye]

I think may of you are forgetting one thing...The new NSX is a halo car just as our current ones were back in the day. Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Porsche don't make halo cars to sell less expensive cars in their line up. As happened with our cars, Honda will not make much if anything from the new NSX, at least directly. Especially with 800 to 1000 units per year at $150K. It's not likely to recover the R&D costs. There is a reason a Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. costs $250K plus. Halo cars are built to showcase technologies that will eventually transfer to the maker's other models and create brand awareness. Our NSXs helped sell a boat load of Integras and Legends as buyers who couldn't afford an NSX but wanted some of the technology that it introduced.

A friend of mine and I were discussing the other day, that we may be living in a real "golden age of the automobile". I'm just shy of 60 years old and can remember the muscle car years and a Ferrari or Lambo did not exist in our car vocabulary because none were in the US. And unfortunately, I also remember the dark oil embargo years of the K-car etc. But, think of it, now we have the opportunity to get our hands on cars exotic and domestic that have 500+ HP. And every year there is something new in design and technology being introduced that's 1000 times better in performance than any car that existed when I grew up. Plus, much of that performance is accessible to the average car enthusiast. Just look at our discussion on this thread. It is amazing that we are able to compare so many high performance vehicles and there are still more coming, the Ford GT for example. Just my .02.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell - the original broke new ground, while this one does not (i.e. all the "tech" in it has been already done, whether by Honda themselves, or by other companies).

Really? Name one car, one supercar, one hypercar or otherwise that has two separate electric motors controlling each front wheel and programmed to send power to the outside wheel while regenerating electric power on the inside wheel (creating drag on that wheel) during turning. The magic of this is that it completely eliminates understeer and improves turn-in response whether you are accelerating, decelerating or maintaining speed, all while improving efficiency. Not even the all wheel drive 918 hypercar-wondercar can claim that!!!

And the RLX while coming close, neither offers the dramatic improvements in handling nor does it deal with the added challenges of sending power to the front wheels that steer the car. I would imagine that adds another level of sensitivity and therefore complexity to the torque split.

 

[Gotolondon]

In 1991 I purchased a Civic LX with about every option they had. I paid $12,600 for it. The same year the NSX came out. At that time, the NSX cost $60,000 (It went up to 85K the following year). So for comparison, the Civic was 79% less money in real dollars. Today the same civic will cost about 26,000. If we assume the actual price for the new NSX is really 160,000 then the comparison between the cost of the new Civic VS the New NSX is 84%. Those are very much in line with a 25 year gap. (On a side note, that 91 Civic got between 40-44 MPG on the highway with regular octane unleaded fuel and the new on touts up to 42 MPG).
I bought my NSX in 1997. I have put almost 100K miles on that car and had fun with most of them. It has been to the dealer for maintenance and has only broken down exactly once! And that was due to a cooling hose failure. I put 110K miles on my Civic and it only went in to the shop for regular maintenance and some very minor things that were user-error related.
My point is this... The Honda is a Honda. I know and or have owned, as well as most of you do as well, all of the cars in this realm that are available. The NSX is the ONLY car in this class that gets excellent fuel economy and goes to the shop primarily for scheduled maintenance. And that is Honda's Scheduled maintenance. Try looking at the scheduled maintenance for any Ferrari or Lamborghini and at that point there is no comparison here. I will buy the 2nd Gen based solely on the fact that it starts every time I get into the car and after owning 30+ cars in my life the NSX is the ONLY car that I have enjoyed every single time I got in it. The only area that has been costly on the NSX for me other than the purchase price and insurance has been tyres. The first set last a whopping 2600 miles.
IMO I will pick up the 2nd gen but I will wait until the second year that it is available just to get the majority of the bugs out.
In conclusion I would like to point out that with my stock 94 NSX I still beat almost anyone that I have gone up against. A lot of cars have been much more capable than mine. You can stick a teenager in a Porsche Turbo but if he does not know how to drive it than he will be rubbish and thus no competition. It comes down to the driver in 95% of the cases that I personally have come up against.
So ends my little rant.

 

[NUK3M]

After the initial excitement, the following seem disappointing:

Interior looks quite good but the center console in mid dash looks very un exotic.

+1 its AWEFUL

horrid use of silver accent too.

 

[GBL1]

in conclusion i would like to point out that with my stock 94 nsx i still beat almost anyone that i have gone up against. A lot of cars have been much more capable than mine. You can stick a teenager in a porsche turbo but if he does not know how to drive it than he will be rubbish and thus no competition. It comes down to the driver in 95% of the cases that i personally have come up against.

yep!

 

[liftcontrol]

with my stock 94 NSX I still beat almost anyone that I have gone up against. A lot of cars have been much more capable than mine. You can stick a teenager in a Porsche Turbo but if he does not know how to drive it than he will be rubbish and thus no competition. It comes down to the driver in 95% of the cases that I personally have come up against.

I had removed about 150 lbs from my '94 NSX and just removing that weight improved the overall performance of that beauty by a significantly felt margin.
I was a fool to have sold it

There were then and still are faster, more powerful cars out there than the original NSX, but boy the overall package was and is still superb in every way.

I hope the 2.0 will evolve into something that would measure up to the original formula.
The 2.0 is a great effort from HONDA and just the fact that they are bringing it out is a victory for enthusiasts.
The fine tuning of the shape etc. will happen eventually

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

I had removed about 150 lbs from my '94 NSX and just removing that weight improved the overall performance of that beauty by a significantly felt margin.
I was a fool to have sold it

There were then and still are faster, more powerful cars out there than the original NSX, but boy the overall package was and is still superb in every way.

I hope the 2.0 will evolve into something that would measure up to the original formula.
The 2.0 is a great effort from HONDA and just the fact that they are bringing it out is a victory for enthusiasts.
The fine tuning of the shape etc. will happen eventually

Gosh liftcontrol, you sound surprisingly upbeat about 2.0 today!?!?

 

[liftcontrol]

Gosh liftcontrol, you sound surprisingly upbeat about 2.0 today!?!?

VP, I am thrilled as any HONDA enthusiast about the fact that HONDA has introduced a world class sports car.
I know it was very difficult to follow in the footsteps of the original NSX.
The new car has it's shortcomings, but once a car is in existence, those details can be worked on and massaged away.
I just hope HONDA stays with it and does not abandon the 2.0 as they did the original.

I have owned two NSX's and three S2000's....I love the original HONDA philosophy of high revving, light, well handling, reliable cars and their history of F1 racing and still making some of the finest engines in the world....I just want to see them get back to their roots so poor S. Honda can stop turning in his grave

 

[nsxtacey]

I think its contradictory to have all those driver aides and allow the driver to have total feel and control of the car which was their main goal.

When I tracked my nsx I knew I had to control it or else I will spin out. When I tracked a 458 I had less fear even though it is twice as fast and hp than the nsx because the computer took control of the slip each time I felt I was about to spin out.

 

[liftcontrol]

When I tracked my nsx I knew I had to control it or else I will spin out. .

nsxtacey, not all of the owners of such cars have your driving ability...they gotta protect their customer base

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

VP, I am thrilled as any HONDA enthusiast about the fact that HONDA has introduced a world class sports car.
I know it was very difficult to follow in the footsteps of the original NSX.
The new car has it's shortcomings, but once a car is in existence, those details can be worked on and massaged away.
I just hope HONDA stays with it and does not abandon the 2.0 as they did the original.

I have owned two NSX's and three S2000's....I love the original HONDA philosophy of high revving, light, well handling, reliable cars and their history of F1 racing and still making some of the finest engines in the world....I just want to see them get back to their roots so poor S. Honda can stop turning in his grave

I hear ya liftcontrol and I appreciate your balanced perspective. I think there is something special in the Honda DNA that we all identified with and the question is, Is it back? I think it may be. The fact that they had the balls to come out with this car after not really doing that well (market-wise) with the original speaks volumes to me about their efforts to get back to their roots. I believe the answer to your question is: YES, Honda does have a pulse again.

This may seem off topic but I think this video nails it for why we have such passion for these cars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4

 

[liftcontrol]

I believe the answer to your question is: YES, Honda does have a pulse again.

VP, Thanks for noticing my question....and I like your answer

 

[MoreRPMs]

Really? Name one car, one supercar, one hypercar or otherwise that has two separate electric motors controlling each front wheel and programmed to send power to the outside wheel while regenerating electric power on the inside wheel (creating drag on that wheel) during turning. The magic of this is that it completely eliminates understeer and improves turn-in response whether you are accelerating, decelerating or maintaining speed, all while improving efficiency. Not even the all wheel drive 918 hypercar-wondercar can claim that!!!


And the RLX while coming close, neither offers the dramatic improvements in handling nor does it deal with the added challenges of sending power to the front wheels that steer the car. I would imagine that adds another level of sensitivity and therefore complexity to the torque split.

Your second paragraph answered your first question, and was exactly what I was thinking when referring the to the SH-AWD system common to both Hondas. Unless I'm mistaken and the two operate on a completely different principle. But to me, they sound fundamentally the same, other than the RL's 4 wheels are powered by the ICE.

It'll be interesting to see if your prediction of understeer being completely eliminated comes true when the car hits the road.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

Your second paragraph answered your first question, and was exactly what I was thinking when referring the to the SH-AWD system common to both Hondas. Unless I'm mistaken and the two operate on a completely different principle. But to me, they sound fundamentally the same, other than the RL's 4 wheels are powered by the ICE.

I get your point. It would have been more exciting if they had the NSX debut before the Hybrid SH-AWD RLX was released. Still, I believe they are taking it up a notch with the NSX.

It'll be interesting to see if your prediction of understeer being completely eliminated comes true when the car hits the road.

Yeah for sure. I guess I am on record with this one so come on Honda, don't let me down!!! lol.

 

[blvnhim]

April Automobile

Robert Cumberford has interesting critic of NSX styling on pages 26/27 of April Automobile mag.

Beginning of article: It's very hard to mess up the styling of a mid-engine sports car. The mechanical layout, very desirable to serious racers, allows
excellent proportions for a two-seater, and it just seems emotionally desirable to most of us. So, yes, it's very hard to screw up, but
Acura has managed it.

End of article: I'm really glad the car is here, available for purchase. I just wish it looked better.

Worth a read

 

[BB]

Full article can be found here....

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/1504-by-design-2016-acura-nsx/

He drones on and on about the car having three large areas of mesh on the front and how it uses two different types of mesh. There are numerous new cars that sport this look, including the new R8 which has an even larger mesh area.

He complains that the metal on the dash is not purposeful enough for a sports car. Yet interviews with the car's interior designer reveal that the metal is actually the exposed frame that supports the entire dash.

He doesn't like the interior air vents above the screen because it reminds him of the front of a Pontiac. There are so few Pontiacs on the road anymore that I had to think for several minutes before I could even vaguely envision what he was saying. Almost nobody will see what he is talking about.

I like how he praises the position of the stereo speakers in the door as being practical. That's because he has mistakenly identified them as being "cubby holes" for storing stuff! Clearly he has not looked at many pictures of the car and he certainly hasn't seen it in person.

But this same author praises the style of the BMW i8, the car that looks like it's giving birth to a 911 out of its rear.

He looks deadly serious about this stuff doesn't he? I think he needs to add an ascot and pocket square to complete his outfit....

 

[The King]

He should move to a seniors home and write for Consumer Reports and Readers Digest.

 

[heySkippy]

End of article: I'm really glad the car is here, available for purchase. I just wish it looked better.

I agree. I keep waiting for the new car to "grow on me" but it isn't. Of mid-engined supercars available to day, the NSX is easily the least inspiring to look at.

 

[ShytKicker]

If the base price is $150k then it's pricey even for ballers like myself. That would make it end up at around $200k with options + taxes + fees. Which is too much. It'd be good if it'd start at $125k and end up around $150k, then that'd make more sense.

Having said that, there are people like myself that just "fell in love" with this next generation NSX and will get it either way. I know I'm putting my pre order in. I also own an all carbon fiber decked out Audi R8 and will either be selling that or simply putting it off to the side.

So far there are variants of the NSX that I seen. The nicest one I seen is this white on with these rims. Do not like the rims they keep using on the red NSX.

Honestly, the design of this car is stunning and is much nicer than R8. I own an R8. It turns every head (especially females). But, I admit - it is outdated in comparison to the NSX design.

Btw you can't compare the NSX to the FORD GT. COMPLETELY differnt class. I own a Viper GTS ACR, AUdi R8, and have considered also owning a Ford GT. The Ford GT and Vipers are not very classy cars. Many people won't want them. Those are american muscle cars and serve their own purpose.

 

[GBL1]

So far there are variants of the NSX that I seen. The nicest one I seen is this white on with these rims. Do not like the rims they keep using on the red NSX.

Those wheels on the white car are SOOOOOOOO Gangster-ghetto!!!!

They absolutely ruin the car by just screaming, "LOOK, I'm a DRUG DEALER with zero sense of taste or style!".

.

 

[ShytKicker]

Lol that's totally not what comes to mind when I first seen them. If I had a choice of rims between the ones on the red NSX vs the white NSX, I'd go with the white NSX rims any day. I think it fits the NSX quite well. These were the rims they used on one of the very first concept prototypes. Here is a pic from 2013, doesn't scream drug dealer to me at all.

 

[fastaussie]

I agree. I keep waiting for the new car to "grow on me" but it isn't. Of mid-engined supercars available to day, the NSX is easily the least inspiring to look at.

I concur with your concurrence...

Those wheels on the white car are SOOOOOOOO Gangster-ghetto!!!!

They absolutely ruin the car by just screaming, "LOOK, I'm a DRUG DEALER with zero sense of taste or style!"..

I absolutely concur even more with this concurrence...

 

[simplife]

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