The police are out of control in my area...

[kenjiMR]

This story is from an quick email I wrote this morning out to the NSX club people in my region asking for some advice. On Saturday, I spent most of the afternoon installing my new brake pads (Carbotech Panther Pluses if any of you are interested.

) and just had finished around 8:15 PM. I took a small drive immediately after installing the brakes to seat the brakes and to warm them up slightly by following the directions. After bringing the car home (8:30), I let the car sit for about 30 minutes and went inside the house to shower etc. During that time, my brother had been preparing dinner so I called my friend who lives less than 5 minutes away to see if he was interested in having some food too because we had made so much.

Saturday, August 25th 9:15PM Anyways, I start down my first main street (Payne) toward Winchester boulevard which is only about 500 yards away from my home and approach the intersection which at the time was a green light. There is a right turn which has its own run-off and is a yield turn. There are no cars and I go through the turn at approximately 25mph and just continue on my way. I get held up at the next light which is about 250 yards down on Winchester and wait in the center lane for the green light. I would say I waited less than 20 seconds for this light. After the stoplight the next intersection is Hamilton, which is only about another 200 yards away. I need to take a left so I get in the left turn only lane. (there are 2 left turn only lanes here) I'm at the very front of the left turn only lane, and the next turn is a quick right about 150 yards away. Hamilton has 3 lanes on both sides of traffic but has a center divider in this area. Since I was the first one at the turn I accelerate faster than the Corrolla (duh) next to me and take a right turn crossing the 3 lanes. Immediately after the right turn is a quick left turn which is the street which my friend lives. I am now in the subdivision so I am driving slowly ~25mph or so. About 50 yards or so I see 2 police cars taking the last left turn at extreme speeds and approach me! I was very suprised at this point. I had no idea what they wanted from me. The shined their lights on me and I IMMEDIATELY put my hazards on and stopped on the side of the residential road. Once I stopped I opened the door to get out to see what the deal was. As soon as I got out they yelled "Put your hands up" I did as I was told and I could barely see them because their lights were so bright, but I could see that both officers were pointing their guns at me. I was very suprised, because I really didn't know why they were pulling me over. One of the officers then came over to me and put hand-cuffs on me and started to yell at me. He started saying all kinds of stuff that really exaturated what I was doing... I just couldn't believe what I was hearing... He asked me how fast were you going!? I replied: probably 40mph or maybe even 45mph at the MOST! Then he started rambling about how I used the shoulder on Payne to get onto Winchester.. I was like WHAT!? There is a should there for use to exit onto winchester... that is why there is a dedicated right turn area. I tried to keep explaining to him that I had even just spent the entire afternoon working on my brakes and was driving extra carefull... At that instant, I thought maybe my braking style was maybe irratic... (but I really didn't think so at the time) so I started to try to prove and explain I just worked on my brakes all day. He wasn't buying anything. He told me he wants to take me to jail and he would get my car towed. He than took me to his car and put me in the police car. I was just shocked. I sat in the car for a while about 5 minutes while the two officers talked amongst themselves. I started to think about where it actually was that they saw me do _anything_ At the intersection of Payne and Winchester there is a 7 Eleven that the policemen always hang out and drink coffee etc. That was the yielding turn that I went about 25mph through onto NO traffic and a 3 lane wide road. but the fact that I didn't brake very hard approaching the turn probably made it look really dangerous to them. (little do they know about NSXs) Also my car was very dirty and its green so they really can't tell what kind of car it is at night. I also realized the fact that I made a quick right turn then a quick left turn, it may have looked to them that I was evading them. (I didn't even see them until I was on the road my friend lived on) While I sat in the car, the two officers were speaking to each other about something. I soon concluded that they realized that they went over-board on this pull-over. The other officer came up to my door and let me out of the car and uncuffed me. He was much more cooled down, but the other officer was still quite hot and jumpy. I had kept my cool through the entire thing, but my attempt to try to explain the truth didn't really seem to get me anywhere. Since the hot one was so angry that he wanted to take me to jail, I aggreed with him that I must have been going too fast... which calmed him down somewhat.
I calmly spoke with the other officer while the hot officer started writing my ticket. He confirmed my suspicions. He mentioend that this pull-over was "his" (the hot headed ones') and I asked them where did you see me, and he mentioned 7 Eleven. The hot-headed officer continued to explain that he would give me a reckless driving ticket.. At the time, I really didn't know the severity of this ticket. I really didn't have a choice but to say ok, because his tone still sounded like he wanted to tow my car! They also explained, that by signing the ticket, it wouldn't mean I was accepting my guilt. He also said I was lucky that he didn't write me up on all my illegal parts! I wanted to yell back at him, WHAT ILLEGAL PARTS!? My car is pretty much stock, but the exhaust is somewhat louder than stock during acceleration. I think this could have also been what made them think I was going faster than I really was. They probably could hear me accelerate from 25mph to 45mph on Winchester as I went toward Hamilton.

They also said that next time we see you, we're gonna take you to jail... I was like! WTF!

They told me they had put my keys on the seat of my car and said I could go.

I got in my car drove 10 seconds to my friends house (on that exact same street) and just felt disgusted.

That is FUBAR.

If you any of you guys have any advice on how I can fight this or deal with this.

I just CANNOT afford to have reckless driving on my record. If I really was guilty of driving dangerously than my attitude woiuld definitely be different.

What I wrote above is the whole truth.

 

[nsxtasy]

My advice is, get a lawyer who's familiar with the traffic courts in your jurisdiction - particularly the judges and the prosecutors. They'll be able to advise you on what your options are and your chances under each of them.

Think, too, about what your objectives are. Keeping a conviction off your record? Minimizing your fines? Getting the cop in trouble for his behavior? Communicate those to your attorney.

Bottom line, you are charged with a traffic offense. Deal with the offense and the way it will be viewed in court. The cop's behavior is probably not going to affect how the case is going to be judged.

My general preference is to have the attorney negotiate with the prosecutor for the best outcome that avoids having the case heard (to eliminate the possibility of an uncertain outcome) with a result I still find acceptable based on my own objectives (usually, keeping charges off my record).

 

[sjs]

Been there, lived that. You got screwed, big time.

The good news is you can almost certainly have a lawyer negotiate it down to a non-points violation if your record is fairly clean. The bad news is it will cost you some $$ that you shouldn't have to pay.

The whole ticket/lawyer thing is an absolute scam. You normally can't work any kind of plea yourself, but the lawyers line up to spend 10 seconds per ticket talking to the DA 's person and knocking down the charge. On the other hand, at least there is a way.

If you can't do that where you are or refuse to pay your way out, you should fight it. If they can't testify to knowing your speed, then your story about how they acted and the honest statement that you can't say for sure what your speed was but that there was never a control or carelessness issue might get it thrown out or reduced.

Good luck!

 

[Electro]

I believe you can plead no contest and it shouldn't go on your record... I could be wrong but i'm pretty sure you can plead no contest to any offense just as long as they're 5 years apart...or talk to the judge about it and hopefully he'll be understanding.

That is IF the judge even allows pleas of no contest... just depends on the attitude of the judge and of course the state laws may be different in CA.

Good luck man that's TOTAL Bullsheot.... I can't stand it when cops have something to prove when you've done nothing wrong... SUCKS!

Let us know how it goes!

-Electro

 

[QWKSLVR]

Kenji,

I feel disgusted from hearing your story! I would definitely consult a lawyer who practices in your county. He or she will likely have good rapport w/the prosecutor & judge. Reckless defenses usually have flat fees of less than a $1000, usually money well spent compared to worst case scenarios for reckless driving penalties & consequent hike in your insurance. In your case, it sounds like a competent lawyer can easily talk the prosecutor into reducing your reckless to at the very least negligent driving. But I really think the charge will be dropped as it simply sounds more like age/socioeconomic discrimination (i.e. young guy in an exotic car = spoiled rich kid who needs a ticket to keep him in place!) There is very little tangible evidence of anything else. Remember, it's really a negotiating game b/w the prosecutor & your lawyer, not you & the officer, so keep your cool. If the officer wants to make it personal, his lack of a case will show in court. I think he'll make an ass of himself if anything! Good luck!

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by QWKSLVR:
Kenji,

I feel disgusted from hearing your story! I would definitely consult a lawyer who practices in your county. He or she will likely have good rapport w/the prosecutor & judge. Reckless defenses usually have flat fees of less than a $1000, usually money well spent compared to worst case scenarios for reckless driving penalties & consequent hike in your insurance. In your case, it sounds like a competent lawyer can easily talk the prosecutor into reducing your reckless to at the very least negligent driving. But I really think the charge will be dropped as it simply sounds more like age/socioeconomic discrimination (i.e. young guy in an exotic car = spoiled rich kid who needs a ticket to keep him in place!) There is very little tangible evidence of anything else. Remember, it's really a negotiating game b/w the prosecutor & your lawyer, not you & the officer, so keep your cool. If the officer wants to make it personal, his lack of a case will show in court. I think he'll make an ass of himself if anything! Good luck!

At least here in NJ it is exactly as described above: a negotiating game between you and the prosecutor. I just went last week for a minor ticket that my wife received. What a scam! Ten seconds of conversation with the prosecutor and one and a half hours of waiting got us a violation that sounded worse but carried no points and cost us $130 instead of $78 and four points.
Funny part was that EVERY traffic case that morning involved ONE officer. He must be a gold mine to the town!!



------------------
The NSX Model List Page

 

[akira3d]

Oh man does this get me mad.

This reminds me of a ridiculous situation that happened to a friend while riding his bicycle through Hermosa Beach. An officer saw my friend from a nearby window and asked him to slow down and walk the bike. My friend, confused by the request, replied something like, "that's okay officer, I'll be careful"...not realizing there were signs stating that bicyclists were supposed to walk their bike through this particular stretch of the path. A block or two further along the path, a pair of squad cars pull up and one of the officers comes up and knocks my friend off his bike. Next thing he knows, the cops are tossing him in the back of the squad car and taking him to the police station to be booked. At the station, they verbally abused him, totally put the scare into him about his situation, and tossed him into a jail cell for the night. All because he committed the horrible offense of not walking his bike near the Hermosa Pier.

I should add that my friend is a soft-spoken, somewhat nerdy, programmer-type. Certainly not the type of guy who defies the system or invites such attention from the law.

No one should have to endure this kind of bulls#!t. Sorry to hear it Kenji.

------------------
--akira3D
'00 Acura NSX-T (red/black), '97 Honda Civic HX (black), '01 Lexus IS300 (black/black)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx

[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 27 August 2001).]

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Originally posted by kenjiMR:
Once I stopped I opened the door to get out to see what the deal was. As soon as I got out they yelled "Put your hands up"

Also, stay in the car next time. Getting out of the car only aggitates them more.

Getting out when its dark is even more dangerous because they cannot tell if you are armed.


Anyway, I wish you luck on getting this straightened out. This sort of thing is rather unfortunate

[This message has been edited by JoeSchmoe (edited 27 August 2001).]

 

[BladesNSX]

Sorry to hear about what happened to you.
You have two options.

First of all, you have to go to court since you have a criminal citation. For this reason you should get a lawyer. I don't know how the law works in your state. But here, if an officer places you in cuffs and puts you in the back of the police car you are either under arrest or you pose a threat to the officers (which I doubt was in your case). You should have called the dept. and filed a complaint; However, it is not too late to do so.
I give the least amount citations in my dept. and get alot of flack for doing so. Some of my "co-workers" think I am too nice to people (some of 'em were foolish enough to think I am soft but scared of my hot temper); they say I am an assh*le with them but nice to the civilians.
Well its stuff like what happened to you that pisses me off; and makes me wish I had chosen a career in computers instead (hey Akira3D got any openings). Take those fools to court. Get a good lawyer. Your rights were GROSSLY violated. What they did is called a "Felony stop" here (Felony stops occur when the subject in the vehicle has recently committed a felony that poses a serious threat to the police should they pull you over.
As for your two options: guily or not guilty. If you plead not guilty and you have a good record, you will pay court fines, and you may not be assessed points to your license. Personally though, I would plead not guilty. BTW, a reckless driving citation is difficult to prove.
I gave a citation to a this punk kid who passed me down a residential road with a 40mph speed limit. I clocked him at 90mph as he passed me. The road curved ever so slightly for him but since there was a car around the corner blocked by some trees, he was forced to slam on his breaks. The road widened at the beginning of the curve allowing for a middle turning lane divided by a curb on both sides of the lane. His brakes locked up and he went skidding for over 150ft and slammed into a palm tree totalling his Mustang (I hate Mustangs and the cocky guys that drive 'em). I wrote the punk kid a rekless driving ticket. But his lawyer bothered me about the details of the citation and we agreed to drop the charge to careless driving. Point, reckless driving is hard to prove. Listen, they pulled their guns and put you under illegal arrest.

Take it to court and fight the ticket.

BLADE

[This message has been edited by BladesNSX (edited 28 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by BladesNSX (edited 30 August 2001).]

 

[netNSX]

Kenji,

Sorry to hear about the incident. I know exactly where you are talking about. Did you happen to get the names of the officers? I have quite a few friends in the force in San Jose. Btw, do you happen to drive near Santa Clara college often?


Ken

 

[PG]

"my car was very dirty"

Aaaagh! What a crime.

Wash your car and hire an attorney. Like others have said, you ought to be able to get rid of the reckless driving charge.

Speaking of cops out of control ...

I was at Blockbuster video the other day. Empty parking lot. One handicapped spot right in front of the store. Police car pulls up, parks in the handicapped spot, guy (in civilian clothes) gets out and goes into the store. I wanted to slash the asshole's tires.

It's hard for me to view the police as anything more than a necessary evil when so many of them flaunt the law themselves. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a cop around here roll through a stop sign, gun it to get through a yellow/red light, pass me on the freeway at 80 mph, drive in the carpool lane with no one else in the car, and so on, I'd have ... er ... a lot of nickels.

Oh well. Taxes and cops. The price of civilization.

 

[ilya]

I hate to hear those kinds of stories. I guess it's nice to be rich and have a lawyer on retainer. Got a problem, make a call, problem solved. Valet damaged your car, doesn't want to pay, make a call... problem solved.
Did they ask you to step out of the vehicle? That's usually a definite no-no. In any case, you were screwed and I hope you can get this resolved to your benefit, maybe even have the officers reprimanded.

On a lighter note, I have a funny police story that shows not all are poor sports. I have a few friends who live up in Oceanside. Every so often they head down to the bar to have some drinks. One of my friends was riding his bike home late one night and was pretty wasted at the time. There was a police car parked along the curb. He was having a hard time riding as it is. As he rode by the car, he BROKE OFF THE CAR'S MIRROR with his handelbars and fell off the bike.
He told us the story the next morning. Let me tell you, we had a BIG laugh over that one. The officer gave him some crap and let him on his way home. Pretty nice of them I think for damaging the car. Personally, I think the officers found it pretty funny too. Imagine riding a bike drunk and knocking off a cop car's mirror! You could put that in a movie. how embarassing.

 

[bill]

Kenji,
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. A No Contest plea indicates that you do not admit guilt but are willing to accept what ever punishment the court assigns. Also, you do not get to plead your case. A Guilty plea allows you to plead your case. An Innocent plea will get you a trial hearing scheduled. The lawyer route is your best bet, since the reckless charge is serious if it sticks. Try to imagine your future ticket fight success rate if the judge sees a reckless driving conviction on your record.

There are good cops and bad cops. Getting out of the car is a definate mistake as it is viewed as confrontational to the officer. Remember that the officer knows nothing about you or your motives. I always try to remember to stay in the car and put both hands on the wheel in clear site. This will make the officer more at ease, but I do it primarily not to get shot. Once the guns are drawn, you can bet they are loaded with the safeties off, and the cop is willing to guarantee that he gets out of the situation alive. Something that you did, must have gotten the officer's attention. If it wasn't your driving or car, it might have been your exhaust. Then your route sounds as if it appeared evasive. Understandable why the cop was upset, but not acceptable that his ego wouldn't let him back down.

I once was pulled over in Hermosa trying to find my brother's place by the beach, and it appeared evasive. I ended up having to circle a median 2 1/2 times (with the cop following me the last 1 1/2) before I pulled into the driveway. During the 'chase' a VW Bug got between the squad car and my car and stopped because he thought he was getting pulled over. The cop got on the PA and tolled the Bug to "get the f*&( out of my way" and then screached into the driveway behind me. He was so mad he was spitting as he talked to me through the window. Asked if I was drunk and offered to throw me in jail for reckless and unsafe u-turns. Also told me I drive "like an idiot". I did not receive any ticket. He either forgot or realized that he was shaking so much in anger, that he couldn't write one.

Good luck, get a good lawyer, and keep a low profile.
bill

 

[jmauck]

This may be a fix for you. I had a run in with the police two weeks after I bought my new Passat (daily driver). I had my new license plates but no county sticker. I was pulled for not having the county sticker but when I showed the cop the paper work he then changed his story saying he had pulled me over for failure to stop at a stop sign. Two weeks before the court hearing, I called the court and said that I was unable to attend the selected court date due to work. They gave me a new date and the cop didn't show up. Because you have the right to defend yourself, they have to issue you a new date. You have a 50%-75% chance that the cop will not show up for the new date, because they don't check his dates usually. If he doesn't show plead not guilty and they will throw the case out. If he does show up still plead not guilty and explain your side of the story.

[This message has been edited by jmauck (edited 28 August 2001).]

 

[justin hall]

Originally posted by Electro:
I believe you can plead no contest and it shouldn't go on your record... I could be wrong but i'm pretty sure you can plead no contest to any offense just as long as they're 5 years apart...or talk to the judge about it and hopefully he'll be understanding...
-Electro

Kenji, the above statement is not true (at least here in Ca.). Pleading no contest results in the exact same thing as pleading guilty, except without the actual admission of guilt. Points, fines, etc are all the same. An example of a time you would really want to plead no contest vs. guilty is if you were involved in a traffic accident involving others where there is a possibility of civil litigation. In that case, your guilty plea can be used against you, but a no contest plea can not.

Originally posted by JoeSchmoe:
Also, stay in the car next time. Getting out of the car only aggitates them more.

Getting out when its dark is even more dangerous because they cannot tell if you are armed.

This is a true statement. Every time I am pulled over I keep both hands visible, and instruct my passenger to do the same, especially at night. To the extreme that if the top is off the hands are up. At a minimum both hands on the door, or at the 12 position on the wheel, with passenger hands on the dash. The more relaxed a officer is, the better your chance of building rapport and getting out of a ticket.

Kenji, last couple sentences are high level overviews for the benefit of anyone else or you in the future. I truly feel bad for your current situation.

Justin



[This message has been edited by justin hall (edited 28 August 2001).]

 

[Ryoma]

...and everyone wonders why no one has any respect for police officers. I've experienced the bully fascism of small town cops growing up in Oklahoma, and have helped friends deal with aftermath of the big city racism of cops here in Houston. I've some sympathy for them granted the idiots they must have to frequently deal with and the real and/or potential danger of their occupation. That does not excuse their inexcusable behavior and attitude - every traffic stop is NOT a felony. There seems to be little regard for professionalism or conduct or the realization that even the reckless driver that they just pulled over is a taxpayer to which they owe their jobs.


Granted my statements are generalizations that absolutley don't fit every law enforcement officer, but unfortunately seem to apply to the majority. My experience as lawbreaker (traffic only thank you very much) and as crime victim have left me with absolutely no respect for, faith in, or liking of police officers. When a group of individuals only causes you unnecessary problems and never provides any assistance in the case of real ones, how else can you feel?

 

[nsxtasy]

Granted my statements are generalizations that absolutley don't fit every law enforcement officer, but unfortunately seem to apply to the majority.

How can you say that, unless you've interacted with large numbers of officers that can be considered representative of the law enforcement community?

The fact is, you probably DON'T interact with many officers. You never even notice the ones who don't pull anyone over for petty offenses or exhibit brutish behavior as in the current example. Or the many who are decent human beings and are just trying to do their jobs and maybe make the world a better place, rather than just throwing their weight around. Unless you're a serious criminal or otherwise part of the criminal justice system, you're not going to meet a lot of policemen.

We all hear about the bad apples, and we all remember them. I've had my own share of bad experiences, too. But I've also had enough good ones to realize that these stories (and I have no doubt that they're true) represent only a minority of the law enforcement community.

I'm hoping we can hear more from Kevin and perhaps others who have contact with enough officers that they can testify as to what extent these miscreants do, or do not, represent their profession.

 

[David Allen]

Hey Kenji - you definitely have my sympathy. There's nothing worse than a nasty run-in with the Safety Nazi's that pretend to protect and serve, when all they really do is serve their anger and egos (can you tell I'm not a fan of the poolice?

).

Somebody earlier did make a good point though about how ones actions can be interpreted. When pulled over, always put both hands on the wheel and just wait for them to come to your window (unless they instruct elsewise). Getting out without being asked or told doesn't go over well.

Also, don't beat yourself up about signing the ticket - many people don't know this, but the second a cop pulls you over, you are arrested - when you sign and leave, you are no longer arrested, but on bail and awaiting trial (as bad as it sounds).

A lawyer should be able to help you out - and also look into the backgrounds of the cops that pulled you over to see if others have had similar problems with them - if they have, that can be part of the presentation to the court.

I wish you the best of luck, and understand that there are MANY people out there (and here in the forums I believe) that have had our own share of problems with the police; you aren't alone.

Just make sure you act on it as soon as possible, protect yourself, and do the right thing.

David Allen
'00 Silverstone-T
~350RWHP thanks to Mark Basch!

 

[nsxbadboy]

Kenji,
If I were a cop and saw some guy in a dirty NSX Id arrest him too for that is a crime.

I have had a lot of interactions with different police(city,county,troopers etc) and must say they are all not bad.I was just pulled two days ago in my Supra.On the way home from work is a long stretch of road;I wanted to check my boost levels in fourth gear.I hit it from a roll,no traffic in front of me,up to about 135-140mph.A turn for a back road was coming up so I let off and checked mirrors.I see a car closing on me but it was too far away to determine what it was.I took the turn and slowed.I see this car go barrelling(sp?)through the turn in pursuit so I hit the gas again,not thinking it was a cop(It was unmarked)I started to pull away with authority and realize that the shiny thing by the rearview of the car was a light.Oh Shit!I pull over immediately,the guy gets out and I hang my hands and my head out the window to tell him I didnt know he was a cop.He tells me his needle was buried for quite some time before he started to gain on me and asked me what my excuse was.I told him I was checking my boost in 4th and trying to burn my gas out of the tank for I was going to the track later that evening and wanted to fill up with race gas.He hands me my license back and tells me to let the gas burn off on its own and have a nice day.This guy could have seriously ruined my life.135 in a 55,no seatbelt(I dont know why?),no registration(I was too nervous to find it)and reckless driving.I told him he made my day and he did.
Sorry this is so long but I just wanted to say that the last SIX times Ive been pulled over,Ive been let off with nothing.All cops arent bad,theres just some bad apples that give the rest a bad name.Fight it in court and remember what goes around comes around.

Joe

------------------
97 NSX-T
93 Supra TT
92 Talon AWD ( For Sale )

 

[justin hall]

kenji, after further thought one other thing came to mind. you mentioned another officer calming the first officer down. did you happen to get the second officers name? you will want to call him as a witness so make sure your attorney is aware of this second officer to subpoena him. his name is likely in the police report.

 

[QWKSLVR]

"Sorry this is so long but I just wanted to say that the last SIX times Ive been pulled over,Ive been let off with nothing.All cops arent bad,theres just some bad apples that give the rest a bad name.Fight it in court and remember what goes around comes around."

Although I previously expressed my disgust w/ the officer's unwarranted behavior, NSXBADBOY has a good point. What I didn't mention in my previous post is that I got pulled over twice in July alone. First time I was going about 80 in a 55 running late for an NSX meet. The cop asked me what my hurry was & I told the truth. I also added that I wasn't aware of my speed, as the NSX is such a nimble car at high speed. He checked out my car and said I'll bet! He just told me to slow it down and let me go! Wasn't quite as lucky the second time, but it could have been a lot worse. Cop spotted me gunning my NSX hard out of a light, basically just accelerating, then slowing to cruising speed. Unfortunately, I got up to 60 (limit was 30)and saw blue lights just before I was about slow down. To make a long story short, I could have gotten a DUI, but b/c I was able to complete all the field tests successfully & had an otherwise clean record, he gave me a break w/ a reckless--I was happy to take it & will plead guilty and hope to have this reduced. I have learned my lesson big time! Aside from the cost of a lawyer for this, my NSX was towed & impounded overnight--that really sucked! Fortunately, the officer was kind enough to allow my request for a flat bed!

 

[Ryoma]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Granted my statements are generalizations that absolutley don't fit every law enforcement officer, but unfortunately seem to apply to the majority.

How can you say that, unless you've interacted with large numbers of officers that can be considered representative of the law enforcement community?

The fact is, you probably DON'T interact with many officers. You never even notice the ones who don't pull anyone over for petty offenses or exhibit brutish behavior as in the current example. Or the many who are decent human beings and are just trying to do their jobs and maybe make the world a better place, rather than just throwing their weight around. Unless you're a serious criminal or otherwise part of the criminal justice system, you're not going to meet a lot of policemen.

We all hear about the bad apples, and we all remember them. I've had my own share of bad experiences, too. But I've also had enough good ones to realize that these stories (and I have no doubt that they're true) represent only a minority of the law enforcement community.

I'm hoping we can hear more from Kevin and perhaps others who have contact with enough officers that they can testify as to what extent these miscreants do, or do not, represent their profession.

Hmmm...let's see. I don't recall ever testifying to what degree I interact with law enforcement personnel. Suffice to say since I refuse to get into a pissing contest with you, that I do feel that I have been around a reasonable sample both in big cities and small towns as friends, relatives, and as a recipient of their 'services'.


Stereotypes and generalizations exist for a reason. If every dog you ever meet (whether it is 2 or 20) bites you, aren't you going to suspect ALL dogs?


Believe what you want, NSXTASY, but I have every reason to believe based upon my OWN experiences (I'm sure you'll discount those for me), those of my close friends and family that the type of behavior described in this thread is the predominant one, not the exception.

 

[DocL]

Originally posted by Ryoma:
...I have every reason to believe based upon my OWN experiences...[and] those of my close friends and family that the type of behavior described in this thread is the predominant one, not the exception.

I'd have to disagree. I've gotten around 30 tickets since I've been driving and I've never been treated like a "criminal". Furhtermore, none of my friends or family have ever been treated inappropriatly. I do agree that sometimes law enforcement officials can get hot headed, but look at the risks that they take everyday. Who knows, maybe there was a crime that took place and the suspects speed off in a black sports car. It happens everyday and innocent people get pulled over for no reason.

I'm not condoning the behavior of the officer, but for a few dolars spent on an attorney the ticket will be dropped. Maybe this is one of the downfalls of owning such a nice car at a young age?

I wouldn't lose too much sleep about this Kenji. A ticket defense lawyer can solve your problem in ten minutes and it shouldn't cost you more than $100. Just consider it another tax.

Good Luck.

 

[skim83]

I'm on your side but just a word of advice.

First-
Never, ever step out of the car when a cop pulls you over. Never. Turn down your radio, roll down your windows and put your hands at 10 and 2. Do not make any quick movements, even to get your license/registration. Whatever you are trying to get TELL the officer what you are getting, "I'm getting my License officer." Keep a smile on your face at all times even though you wanna punch the idiots out. Always address the cop as Officer. Never raise your voice. Remember, the officer has no idea whether you are a good citizen or an insane criminal. A close friend of mine is a Cop so this is where I get this stuff.

Second-
When you appear at court ask the judge if you can take a look at the Officers official paperwork. I forget the names to these forms but there are A LOT of them that he HAS to keep up to date. 99% chance that atleast 1 of the forms are out of date. If this is so then you get off on a technicality. This almost always works.

Third-
Getting a lawyer for trafiic court is up to you but using what's written above should get you through. Don't get me wrong, lawyers are really helpful in traffic court but I personally don't like to involve lawyers in small things like this. I've used the above technique all 4 times for 4 speeding tickets and my record still hasn't got a scratch on it.

 

[nicholas421]

for those of you who think cops arnt so bad because they let you off for going 800mph .... i think those cops are even worse than the ones that pulled over kenji. getting a traffic ticket should be an objective matter. the penalty should not depend on whether i wear a smile or i flip him the finger.. it should be based on my driving.

kenji... mount a video camera in your car and provoke a beating next time your pulled over. then you'll never have to worry about being able to afford a lawyer again.