The Shop San Bruno - New Hunter in ground alignment rack

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

Turbo95Max said:
You are correct, I didn't post the entire story on here because I didn't think everything is relevant. Yes we tried to align the arrows on a regular rack because that's what I thought you wanted. I even told you if I do that then the toe will be off. Once we clarified everything we then put it onto the alignment rack. I do not think you are stupid, that is your own assumption. I also left out parts of conversation where I felt you were being very disrespectful and laughing in my face.

Clearly I am lying? How is that clear? There were about 10 witnesses that day and if you want to accuse the witnesses of being biased, there were about 5 of them that have no connection to me. I even had customers comment about your behavior after you left. I left that out of my story as well because I didn't think it was relevant, nor did I think it was very productive. I don't think I need to prove to anyone that I am telling the truth, you and I, along with 10 other people all know what happened.

I did not disagree with nsxprime's instructions, I simply said we have that information and know how to align the nsx.

You thought I want you to adjust the toe on a regular rack? Anyone with common sense would want an alignment job to be done on an alignment rack with sensors attached to the four wheels. Clearly you are lying again. I even demanded that you either to redo the job on the alignment rack or refund my money so I can go to another shop to redo my alignment in proper way. But you took out some nuts and bolts for the tool box and demonstrate how you can turn a bolt in one way and the nut in opposite way so you can adjust the rear toe to the spec even without an alignment machine. Then I ask you how many degree in change would be on the rear toe when you turn the bolt and nut by 1 cm. You became speechless and put my car on the alignment rack. I was laughing because I never seen someone like you trying to do alignment without an alignment machine.

Your customers comment about my behavior because they don't know your demonstration. If they knew about it, I bet they will laugh even louder than me.

I never accusing the witnesses of being bias. I only said that to Mike C is bias because he was not there that day.

Konkordmusk · 7 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
You thought I want you to adjust the toe on a regular rack? Anyone with common sense would want an alignment job to be done on an alignment rack with sensors attached to the four wheels. Clearly you are lying again. I even demanded that you either to redo the job on the alignment rack or refund my money so I can go to another shop to redo my alignment in proper way. But you took out some nuts and bolts for the tool box and demonstrate how you can turn a bolt in one way and the nut in opposite way so you can adjust the rear toe to the spec even without an alignment machine. Then I ask you how many degree in change would be on the rear toe when you turn t he bolt and nut by 1 cm. You became speec hless and put my car on the alignment rack. I was laughing because I never seen someone like you trying to do alignment without an alignment machine.

Your customers comment about my behavior because they don't know your demonstration. If they knew about it, I beat they will laugh even louder than me.

I never accusing the witnesses of being bias. I only said that to Mike C is bias because he was not there that day.

The article you posted showed the author performing his alignment without a machine. He used string.

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

Konkordmusk said:
The article you posted showed the author performing his alignment without a machine. He used string.

Ok then you go to "The Shop San Bruno" and have Matt to do your alignment with a string may be he can charge you less.

Turbo95Max · 7 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
You thought I want you to adjust the toe on a regular rack? Anyone with common sense would want an alignment job to be done on an alignment rack with sensors attached to the four wheels. Clearly you are lying again. I even demanded that you either to redo the job on the alignment rack or refund my money so I can go to another shop to redo my alignment in proper way. But you took out some nuts and bolts for the tool box and demonstrate how you can turn a bolt in one way and the nut in opposite way so you can adjust the rear toe to the spec even without an alignment machine. Then I ask you how many degree in change would be on the rear toe when you turn the bolt and nut by 1 cm. You became speechless and put my car on the alignment rack. I was laughing because I never seen someone like you trying to do alignment without an alignment machine.

Your customers comment about my behavior because they don't know your demonstration. If they knew about it, I beat they will laugh even louder than me.

I never accusing the witnesses of being bias. I only said that to Mike C is bias because he was not there that day.

There is a better way of approaching a situation then laughing in my face.

Wow, nuts and bolts from my toolbox?? OK, This is straying further and further away. I am not lying period. Regardless, it doesn't seem like we are getting anywhere going back and forth and there is no point in arguing anymore. I believe in the end you got your alignment with the arrows pointing at each other. Thanks and Good luck.

I have not seen the reason why the arrows need to point at each other and I'd like to know so if there are any NSX alignment experts here that can show me that would be much appreciated.

EuroBoutique · 7 May 2013

I never knew there can be so much drama over an alignment! LOL

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

s4play said:
Wow *speechless!

Well I have never taken my car to the San Bruno shop but quite honestly I would not trust any shop besides Auto Innovations in Milpitas for my alignment jobs.

I don't see all this hype for a in ground unit. My NSX is SLAMMED as well and with the proper boards, we can still put my NSX on their "above ground" alignment rack. As with any job, it's not the tools but the person who handles the job. I rarely leave my keys to the NSX to anyone but AI gets my trust.

As for the OP, I was not there so you have your right to vent ~ it's up to the rest of us to take it for what it is and decide for ourselves.

Disclaimer: Never met the OP nor have I been to the "The Shop"

Absolutely agree with you, I am not trying to make anybody to believe me or not and I can not force anyone to believe me.

I was only sharing my alignment experience at "The Shop San Bruno" here but all the sudden Mike C and WashabiS2k start to attacking me by saying I am are not telling the truth and said Matt has highly modified track car in his shop so he got to be right.

Lastly, I think the arrows on the rear toe link should be pointing each other. Why would the Honda engineers put arrows there if there was no use of it?

MikeC_587 · 7 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
Absolutely agree with you, I am not trying to make anybody to believe me or not and I can not force anyone to believe me.

I was only sharing my alignment experience at "The Shop San Bruno" here but all the sudden Mike C and WashabiS2k start to attacking me by saying I am are not telling the truth and said Matt has highly modified track car in his shop so he got to be right.

Lastly, I think the arrows on the rear toe link should be pointing each other. Why would the Honda engineers put arrows there if there was no use of it?

Why do you say that I'm attacking you? I never said in my reply that you are not telling the truth (see below):

First of all to answer your reply to my post that you taught Matt and his team how to do alignments, couldn't be farther from the truth, because I have had my NSX aligned by The Shop many times when they had the above ground Hunter Alignment rack.

Secondly, its not clear that Matt is lying.

Thirdly, I know many of Matt's customers some who track their cars. some that are daily drivers and some that are garage queens and they all have their alignments done at The Shop.

Fourthly, let's just chalk this up to experience and that you already made it clear that you will never go back to The Shop for any service or alignment ever again.

Fifthly, why don't you find a shop that you can recommend for an alignment or open up your own alignment shop, since based on your two posts, you're clearly an expert.

Sixthly, the end.

Mike

You should have taken #4 as a suggestion to move on. BTW, I suggest you re-read your own posts, cause you seem to draw conclusions that aren't there. For example no where in WashabiS2K reply did he call you a "jerk". Just like in my reply, there are no statement of attacks towards you.

Mike

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

MikeC_587 said:
Why do you say that I'm attacking you? I never said in my reply that you are not telling the truth (see below):

First of all to answer your reply to my post that you taught Matt and his team how to do alignments, couldn't be farther from the truth, because I have had my NSX aligned by The Shop many times when they had the above ground Hunter Alignment rack.

Secondly, its not clear that Matt is lying.

Thirdly, I know many of Matt's customers some who track their cars. some that are daily drivers and some that are garage queens and they all have their alignments done at The Shop.

Fourthly, let's just chalk this up to experience and that you already made it clear that you will never go back to The Shop for any service or alignment ever again.

Fifthly, why don't you find a shop that you can recommend for an alignment or open up your own alignment shop, since based on your two posts, you're clearly an expert.

Sixthly, the end.

Mike

You should have taken #4 as a suggestion to move on. BTW, I suggest you re-read your own posts, cause you seem to draw conclusions that aren't there. For example no where in WashabiS2K reply did he call you a "jerk". Just like in my reply, there are no statement of attacks towards you.

Mike

I am sorry if I misunderstood you and washabis2k. Base on the way how you and Washabis2k comment in your posts especially when you said "why don't you find a shop that you can recommend for an alignment or open up your own alignment shop", I felt that I am being attacked. But if that was a mistake and you both are not attacking me, I am deeply apologize to you and Washabis2k.

MikeC_587 · 7 May 2013

Rick,

When I want your opinion... I'll give it to you... :biggrin:

I am the OP!!!! so you do know me!!!

Your NSX is slammed compared to what? a stock NSX? I'm glad that Auto Innovations takes care of all of your alignment needs and I have always heard great things from the local NSX community regarding their service.

As far as in ground alignment rack:

I don't have to worry about having to place my NSX on blocks to put it on the alignment rack, it takes time to do this and as you know time is money!!!

I don't have to worry about something going wrong no matter how careful Auto Innovations is, with the in ground alignment rack you just have to drive your NSX onto the alignment rack. Did I mention time is money :biggrin::biggrin:

Mike

s4play said:
Wow *speechless!

Well I have never taken my car to the San Bruno shop but quite honestly I would not trust any shop besides Auto Innovations in Milpitas for my alignment jobs.

I don't see all this hype for a in ground unit. My NSX is SLAMMED as well and with the proper boards, we can still put my NSX on their "above ground" alignment rack. As with any job, it's not the tools but the person who handles the job. I rarely leave my keys to the NSX to anyone but AI gets my trust.

As for the OP, I was not there so you have your right to vent ~ it's up to the rest of us to take it for what it is and decide for ourselves.

Disclaimer: Never met the OP nor have I been to the "The Shop"

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

MikeC_587 said:
First of all to answer your reply to my post that you taught Matt and his team how to do alignments, couldn't be farther from the truth, because I have had my NSX aligned by The Shop many times when they had the above ground Hunter Alignment rack.

Secondly, its not clear that Matt is lying.

Thirdly, I know many of Matt's customers some who track their cars. some that are daily drivers and some that are garage queens and they all have their alignments done at The Shop.

Fourthly, let's just chalk this up to experience and that you already made it clear that you will never go back to The Shop for any service or alignment ever again.

Fifthly, why don't you find a shop that you can recommend for an alignment or open up your own alignment shop, since based on your two posts, you're clearly an expert.

Sixthly, the end.

Mike

Well, I really found a shop that I could recommend.

It is "United Performance" at 108 S Linden Ave South San Francisco, CA 94080. Few blocks north from "The Shop San Bruno" They also have the Hunter in ground alignment rack and they charge a flat rate of $60 for all cars (including slammed NSX) versus to The Shop San Bruno charged me $80.

They have pretty high Yelp reviews (4.5 star).
http://www.yelp.com/biz/united-performance-south-san-francisco

Kris79 · 7 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
You thought I want you to adjust the toe on a regular rack? Anyone with common sense would want an alignment job to be done on an alignment rack with sensors attached to the four wheels. Clearly you are lying again. I even demanded that you either to redo the job on the alignment rack or refund my money so I can go to another shop to redo my alignment in proper way. But you took out some nuts and bolts for the tool box and demonstrate how you can turn a bolt in one way and the nut in opposite way so you can adjust the rear toe to the spec even without an alignment machine. Then I ask you how many degree in change would be on the rear toe when you turn the bolt and nut by 1 cm. You became speechless and put my car on the alignment rack. I was laughing because I never seen someone like you trying to do alignment without an alignment machine.

Your customers comment about my behavior because they don't know your demonstration. If they knew about it, I beat they will laugh even louder than me.

I never accusing the witnesses of being bias. I only said that to Mike C is bias because he was not there that day.

after you have done so many alignments you kinda can eye it, i used to do just for fun after a camber kit or toe bolt install just to see how well i can get it in spec with out a machine, just saying.

But anyways, i have gone to the shop san bruno for my alignment on my nsx also. My arrows dont point exactly at each other but my print out is in spec and the car drives better so im happy. Unless
a honda engineer that designed the nsx or alldata says the arrows have to point exactly at each other then i really dont care if they point or not.

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

Kris79 said:
after you have done so many alignments you kinda can eye it, i used to do just for fun after a camber kit or toe bolt install just to see how well i can get it in spec with out a machine, just saying.

But anyways, i have gone to the shop san bruno for my alignment on my nsx also. My arrows dont point exactly at each other but my print out is in spec and the car drives better so im happy. Unless
a honda engineer that designed the nsx or alldata says the arrows have to point exactly at each other then i really dont care if they point or not.

If you could get an alignment in spec without a machine, I can't think of a reason why you need to pay The Shop San Bruno to do an alignment on your NSX.

It is your NSX and if you are comfortable with arrows not aligned that's good for you.

Looks like you believe Matt has the capability of doing an alignment without a machine. So you agree that Matt tried to adjust my NSX rear toe without the alignment machine not that he thought I was the one telling him to do it on a regular rack? Because I never know he has the capability of doing it so it make no sense for me to request him to do it on a regular rack.

Kris79 · 7 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
If you could get an alignment in spec without a machine, I can't think of a reason why you need to pay The Shop San Bruno to do an alignment on your NSX.

It is your NSX and if you are comfortable with arrows not aligned that's good for you.

Looks like you believe Matt has the capability of doing an alignment without a machine. So you agree that Matt tried to adjust my NSX rear toe without the alignment machine not that he thought I was the one telling him to do it on a regular rack? Because I never know he has the capability of doing it so it make no sense for me to request him to do it on a regular rack.

for peace of mind, its just a game i play to see how close i can get with out the sensors. And btw i have no idea what your trying to say.

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

Kris79 said:
after you have done so many alignments you kinda can eye it, i used to do just for fun after a camber kit or toe bolt install just to see how well i can get it in spec with out a machine, just saying.

But anyways, i have gone to the shop san bruno for my alignment on my nsx also. My arrows dont point exactly at each other but my print out is in spec and the car drives better so im happy. Unless
a honda engineer that designed the nsx or alldata says the arrows have to point exactly at each other then i really dont care if they point or not.

Wow, this sounds to me like someone with a NSX running 89 gas for years and telling people he is happy with it. It is better than 87 but cheaper than 91. Unless a Honda engineer tell him that he needs 91 octane or above gas, he will simply ignore the "premium gas only" tag on the gas door because it ran for years without the car dying on him.

If I were you (Kris79), I would call Acura or Honda to confirm whether the arrows should aligned before expressing your happiness or may be worries. I am not a car expert nor am I an alignment expert, you don't' need to listen to me. But since Honda has all the data why not give them s call to confirm? Will that cost you?

Kris79 · 7 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
Wow, this sounds to me like someone with a NSX running 89 gas for years and telling people he is happy with it. It is better than 87 but cheaper than 91. Unless a Honda engineer tell him that he needs 91 octane or above gas, he will simply ignore the "premium gas only" tag on the gas door because it ran for years without the car dying on him.

If I were you, I would call Acura or Honda to confirm whether the arrows should aligned before expressing your happiness or may be worries. I am not a car expert nor am I an alignment expert, you don't' need to listen to me. But since Honda has all the data why not give them s call to confirm? Will that cost you?

View attachment doc00121020130507140409.pdf here u go, nothing is said from acura that the 2 arrows have to meet up.

btw i think a better analogy would be if honda recommends 91 from chevron and i use shell.

Anyways im not here to argue with you. im just stating i trust the shop with my car since all data, acura and hunter does not show anything about these arrows needing to line up.

soyeah81 · 7 May 2013

Kris79 said:
View attachment 100721 here u go, nothing is said from acura that the 2 arrows have to meet up.

btw i think a better analogy would be if honda recommends 91 from chevron and i use shell.

Anyways im not here to argue with you. im just stating i trust the shop with my car since all data, acura and hunter does not show anything about these arrows needing to line up.

Do All Data, Acura and Hunter show that you should rotate the outer link for adjusting rear toe? The instruction says free the lock nuts and adjust the turnbuckle(the giant nut between outer and inner link). So if the outer and inner links shouldn't moved at all thus the arrows should be always aligned as the car was out of the manufacture.

I am not here to argue with you also. I don't get any benefit if your toe links were aligned or not. Like my previous post said if you are comfortable with arrows not aligned that's good for you. I just suggest that you could verbally confirm with Acura while you still can. May be you misunderstood the Acura instruction by just reading it?

EuroBoutique · 7 May 2013

LOL my bad Mike, I'm old and tend to forget things these days very easily!

Oops you are the OP

Ok I'll go back to sleep now...hehe

Kris79 · 8 May 2013

soyeah81 said:
Do All Data, Acura and Hunter show that you should rotate the outer link for adjusting rear toe? The instruction says free the lock nuts and adjust the turnbuckle(the giant nut between outer and inner link). So if the outer and inner links shouldn't moved at all thus the arrows should be always aligned as the car was out of the manufacture.

I am not here to argue with you also. I don't get any benefit if your toe links were aligned or not. Like my previous post said if you are comfortable with arrows not aligned that's good for you. I just suggest that you could verbally confirm with Acura while you still can. May be you misunderstood the Acura instruction by just reading it?

i contacted mike harvy honda/acura and talk to their tech and service guys, they said the arrows do not mater as long as you have them within spec when on the alignment machine if you want you can call and ask them, albert (650) 579-6800 .

soyeah81 · 8 May 2013

Kris79 said:
i contacted mike harvy honda/acura and talk to their tech and service guys, they said the arrows do not mater as long as you have them within spec when on the alignment machine if you want you can call and ask them, albert (650) 579-6800 .

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 Just call them, and I got the same answer as yours. But I called Serramonte Acura also, they explain to me that the inner link is fixed attached to the engine and can't rotate. But while the outer link is attached to the knuckle with a ball joint so it is movable during alignment job thus there are arrows on the links to help identify the perfect position of the outer link. They said the outer link is in perfect position when the two arrows pointing each other.

Konkordmusk · 8 May 2013

I'm sure you are aware that if your nsx is lowered, the angle the tie rod end ball joint is perfect at may not perfectly correlate to the perfect angle at stock height?

soyeah81 · 8 May 2013

Konkordmusk said:
I'm sure you are aware that if your nsx is lowered, the angle the tie rod end ball joint is perfect at may not perfectly correlate to the perfect angle at stock height?

Don't know what to answer you since I am not an alignment expert. To quote latzke, an NSXRPIME member. "... The idea is to give the ball joints the biggest range of motion possible (not have them bind across full range of suspension travel). There is no re-centering to be done here at different ride heights. Lowering a vehicle does not change the outer bounds of the suspension travel, just where in that travel the car sits when static (and how it moves within that range)."

Not sure if that answers you question but if you believe the arrows shouldn't align there is no need to ask question here. All I can tell you is the arrows on my NSX were aligned and the rear toe is in spec with my car lower by 1.5 inch as Matt can confirm that.

Kris79 · 8 May 2013

if your saying your alignment is in spec and your not an alignment expert why not just trust the people that invested 20k on alignment machine and do this for a living?

soyeah81 · 8 May 2013

Kris79 said:
if your saying your alignment is in spec and your not an alignment expert why not just trust the people that invested 20k on alignment machine and do this for a living?

Totally agree with you, I trusted them and let them do my alignment but they didn't do it properly. So I complained and they insisted they did it right. Then I showed them the instruction but Matt tried to redo the alignment manually without a machine. So I complained again. Finally, they realigned my NSX on the alignment machine according to the Acura instructions that I downloaded from NSXPRIME. That is the whole story. No more debate, I am exhausted.

syam · 8 May 2013

I think this is getting pretty hilarious.

The arrows are there so that you can make sure that the two ends of the turn-buckle joint are in the same plane. Whether they line up or not has NOTHING to do with the adjustment length, which is the important variable when you are looking at adjusting toe. Now, ideally, to have your toe aligned perfectly (not only in actual toe angle, but also the ball-joint alignment), you should line up the arrows and make sure they point exactly at eachother. In actual practice, this does not matter at all becaue the ball joint is designed to take up these few degrees of 'mis-alignment'. This does not change what your toe was aligned to at all.

So in both cases, arrows aligned and not, the function of the toe alignment will be the same. The form will be slightly different, but that is like saying one person wants their toe-links polished before the alignment is complete and the other doesn't care.

soyeah81 · 8 May 2013

broinkrist said:
I think this is getting pretty hilarious.

The arrows are there so that you can make sure that the two ends of the turn-buckle joint are in the same plane. Whether they line up or not has NOTHING to do with the adjustment length, which is the important variable when you are looking at adjusting toe. Now, ideally, to have your toe aligned perfectly (not only in actual toe angle, but also the ball-joint alignment), you should line up the arrows and make sure they point exactly at eachother. In actual practice, this does not matter at all becaue the ball joint is designed to take up these few degrees of 'mis-alignment'. This does not change what your toe was aligned to at all.

So in both cases, arrows aligned and not, the function of the toe alignment will be the same. The form will be slightly different, but that is like saying one person wants their toe-links polished before the alignment is complete and the other doesn't care.

Here you go. That's what I was trying talk about but I am no expert so can't express it out.

Thanks broinkrist, salute you!!

broinkrist would you agree if the the outer link was turned all the way to one side, the ball joint might not able to take up the mis-alignment since there is no more movement?

The Shop San Bruno - New Hunter in ground alignment rack

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