THE ULTIMATE NSX Oil Filter Page and Analysis

[NSX2play]

Here a quote from a review from amazon for the denso

1.0 out of 5 stars Denso package holes and oil filter contamination, September 21, 2010
By Robert R. Hale "NSX fan" - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: Denso 150-1013 Oil Filter (Automotive)
I can not now recommend this Denso oil filter. Although Denso is alleged to have made good products (in Japan?), the filters I recently purchased all have sizeable holes punched in the center of the clear plastic protective packaging film. I have never before seen such holes in any oil filter protective closures. Denso's US CA warehouse has agreed that the holes are apparently present for all products they now have in stock, but Denso refuses to even discuss the technical whys and wherefores, or whether/if/how they control the process of making these holes so as to adequately control contaminant introduction to the filters. Particles, including those from the fractured as-punctured plastic film, are unavoidably introduced into and present in the DOWNSTREAM side of the oil filter because of these (vent?) holes. From there, the contaminants are ready to enter and immediately damage your engine bearings! I've taken numerous photos and will be posting additional details on appropriate forums. Earlier Denso oil filters reportedly did not have such packaging holes. But, in case you do buy them, at least vacuum out the particles before installing them. Bob.

With respect, that looks like another big nothing from another Internet "expert"......

I have seen these holes before and they are no bigger than a single hole punched in paper for a three ring binder. I suspect they are vents to release any humidity created in the manufacturing process so that rust doesn't form. And I'm pretty sure, even though they failed to consult "Bob", that a huge manufacturer like Denso is not going to intentionally put a hole in the plastic cover reckless to the fact that their filters will become engine bombs.

So I'm putting my money with Denso and I just bought one of their oil filters for my next oil change. I like the idea of using a bigger filter compared to the tiny Honda one. It just makes sense - more filtering media should result in better filtration and the ability to flow , more oil. I think the Honda engineers that designed the NSX engine used a large filter for that very reason. Curses on the bean counters at Honda that eventually over-ruled them and forced the small filter on us so that Honda didn't have to supply a large filter for the small NSX market and none of its other vehicle line up. I won't be going back to the tiny Honda ones.

I let you know how it works out when I rebuild my engine at 500k miles! :biggrin:

 

[TrustJDM]

Here is a picture of this "massive" hole that the reviewer on amazon is so afraid of. Keep your children & small pets at bay because it may swallow them whole. Given that these are $5.50 @ rockauto, I'll take my chances.

 

[g3driver]

Here is a picture of this "massive" hole that the reviewer on amazon is so afraid of. Keep your children & small pets at bay because it may swallow them whole. Given that these are $5.50 @ rockauto, I'll take my chances.

wow that is massive! Thanks for the info!

 

[kwinkler]

I have used the Denso filters with their "massive" holes for over 2 years without issue. My holes were either the same size or smaller than the ones pictured above.

 

[BTL3.0]

I have used the Denso filters with their "massive" holes for over 2 years without issue. My holes were either the same size or smaller than the ones pictured above.

same here. i get mine through sparkplugs.com ..they were a vendor on here at one point. don't know if they are still around.. need to order more, running low on stock.

 

[hofffam]

That hole in the filter packaging is probably put there to allow a tiny bit of airflow to avoid the impact of pressure changes during shipping. The filters come from Japan, and could end up here via ship or airplane. It might also help eliminate condensation.

I don't see how they are material in any way.

 

[TURBO2GO]

He is worried the plastic material from that hole will get through the and into the engine and "damage your bearings".

 

[stevieray122854]

Unbelievable. Who the f@#k is Robert R. Hale? It never fails to amaze me how people will show their ignorance in an attempt to come across as some kind of internet guru. What's even more amazing is that some people buy into it instead of doing their due diligence or listening to people (like Hugh) that have real-world, long -term experience with a product.

BTW, as many OEM Denso components as are on ANY Honda, I have no qualms at all about putting their stuff on my cars.

 

[g3driver]

Just got my denso filters from amazon. Love them and no holes! Thank you for all the great information. I wrote a blog about the filters and new oil I switched to. You can read it here.

 

[davidf]

This is the filter you want. But hey, what do I know? I only have 290,000 miles on my car.

I assume this is the tall filter? Hopefully!

 

[Hugh]

I assume this is the tall filter? Hopefully!

Yes it is.

 

[Hugh]

That hole in the filter packaging is probably put there to allow a tiny bit of airflow to avoid the impact of pressure changes during shipping.

You're joking right?

 

[greenberet]

That hole in the filter packaging is probably put there to allow a tiny bit of airflow to avoid the impact of pressure changes during shipping.

You're joking right?

I just purchased lots of OEM parts for a big service. Many of the plastic baggies had little holes stamped into them (for example, every rubber hose found under "Water Valve" came in a baggie with a hole stamped into it). I also assumed that was to make sure the baggies couldn't pop if the parts were airfreighted somewhere.

 

[Hugh]

I just purchased lots of OEM parts for a big service. Many of the plastic baggies had little holes stamped into them (for example, every rubber hose found under "Water Valve" came in a baggie with a hole stamped into it). I also assumed that was to make sure the baggies couldn't pop if the parts were airfreighted somewhere.

I suppose it's possible. Atmospheric pressure is 4.3 psi at 30,000 feet, 14.7psi at sea level so the air would expand to 3 times its original volume assuming the part was packaged at sea level and shipped by air unpressurized. I'm not buying it entirely though. The holes are most likely there to reduce suffocation risks in small children/pets and possibly to release out-gassing as is common in fruit bags.

 

[greenberet]

The holes are most likely there to reduce suffocation risks in small children/pets and possibly to release out-gassing as is common in fruit bags.

That sounds plausible, too. If someone were really interested, they could check which parts Honda puts into baggies with holes in them and which parts they don't. From that, you could try to determine a pattern and draw some conclusions. Unfortunately, I'm not the man for the job. Hugh, are you up for some basic research?

 

[Hugh]

Hugh, are you up for some basic research?

I'd rather chew on rusty thumbtacks.

 

[ralph cerbone]

This is crazy ,no time for this nonsense ,Iam feeding 12squirrels right now and Bobby Big Balls wants his peanuts right now

 

[LJSB]

Ralph, you'e killing me!:biggrin:

 

[gabedm]

I took apart the new OEM Honda "short" filter and was surprised at the findings.


The NSX's oil filter stats are pretty weak when compared to the OEM filter of:

1991-2005 NSX - 3.0/3.2L - 6qt - OEM filter: 129.5sq/in
1991-2005 NSX - 3.0/3.2L - 6qt - Purolator L24484:________sq/in

1995-1999 E36 BMW M3 - 3.0/3.2L - 6qt - OEM filter: ~330sq/in

1990-2004 Mazda Miata - 1.6/1.8L - 4qt - OEM filter: 102.5sq/in


I am going to buy and cut open a L24484 and post the results of the design and surface area, but either way the OEM Honda 'short' filter is not much better than a Miata and IMO does not cut it especially for track use.


As a background, these websites are good reads on the different designs, components, and materials of oil filters:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html

http://shoclub.com/news.php?extend.6

From the above sites, metal end caps and rubber/silicon anti-drain back valves are characteristics of higher quality oil filters. The above sites also show an average filter surface area of 300sq/in and 200sq/in respectively for the given application.


Here's what I saw when I cut it open:

OEM Honda "Short" Filter housing:

Visually on par high quality rubber/silicon anti-drain back valve:

Filter elements cut out and cartridge leaf spring below. I used a razor blade and carefully cut as close to the end caps as I could and stretched the whole thing out and measured:

Total Surface Area = 129.5sq/in!!

By comparison, here's the 1.6L OEM Miata filter:

Similar high quality anti-drain back valve and cartridge leaf spring below:

Total Surface Area of 102.5sq/in:

Please post your findings of different filters and corresponding surface area.


Billy

Filter size depends alot on the pressure drop required post oil pump.

I do not think you can make a comparison solely based on displacement, and say that 'bigger is better" for filter opening area..

Compare the flow rate at the same RPM and pump outlet pressure between the NSX and the M3... I am willing to bet the M3 is almost 2x as much above 4k rpm...

Moreover, you are missing a very important part of judging oil filters, the seal.

Honda has strick requirements for the material, shape and casting of the seal. As you will note by your OEM filter, it is shaped in an "L", whereas the purilator is most likely (no pics obi) a rectangle. This shape would never pass honda requirements. Also, the material in the aftermarket filter seals does NOT pass honda temp/duration tests.

Finally, since you do not have a spec of the filter paper/open area dimensions of the honda filter, its a very hard comparison to make. There are differences, trust me...

 

[BATMANs]

Why is it that when people talk about oil filter they seem to ONLY discuss oil media filtration surface area and not talk about the MPE and SPE ratings?

MPE and SPE ratings are all over the place between various makes and model oil filters.

I'd rather have the smaller filtration area and have the media be able to pull out smaller microns, than a larger filtration media that lets abrasive junk through.

 

[hofffam]

You're joking right?

No. The hole might prevent any condensation from developing inside the filter as it ships from Japan either in an airplane or ship.

 

[BATMANs]

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[LJZ]

another thought/consideration

I profess no technical abilities even remotely near the abilities of some of the members posting on this thread. I know many NSX owners use independent service facilities or do their own work. It just seems to me that in the unlikely event that an oil filter blows apart or otherwise lets go and the result is catastrophic engine failure, there is some possiblity that Acura might step up to the plate and help out, especially if the oil change was done at the dealer and a Honda filter was used. It is possible that there are other filters that may have better specs/filtration, etc. but I change my oil every 3,000 miles without fail and use Mobil 1 so I doubt that the difference is all that material. Just my two cents.

Best,
Jeff

 

[BATMANs]

Jeff,

Have you used http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ to conduct your oil analysis?

It's like getting blood work down at the hospital to tell u if u about ur insulin, cholesterol, etc.

If your engine is healthy chances are is that you may find out that you've been wasting $$$$ on how frequent you change your oil. Especially your Mobil 1.

The OEM change interval on mineral oil is 7500k miles. It's right on the airbox sticker if I recalled correctly.

The $35 for the oil analysis is so worth it. I do it 2-3 times for each of my engines and that's it since it allows me to forecast if my change intervals are on the money.

 

[LJZ]

Thanks BATMANs, I'm going to give the analysis a try -- should be interesting. My car is a totally stock /94 (except for a full OEM /04 header to muffler system and WHITENSX's [Steve] HID lights) with 39,000 miles so engine is pretty healthy as far as I know. I am sure you are right regarding my oil change intervals. For some reason I only put about 3500 miles on the car this year (I'm in MI so car is off the road from late November until April) and I'll change it on basis of time alone this year. I am probably wasting some dough by changing @ 3,000 miles but the oil costs all of $30.00 for six quarts and the filter is less than $10. I have the type of relationship with the local Acura dealer that they don't mind if I bring in my own oil and filter and they charge me a nominal $10 to drop the oil and put on the filter (it helps that my daily driver is an /06 TL and my dad has one as well so they make some dough servicing those cars). Upshot, this costs me $50.00 and I have peace of mind. Again, I am willing to bet that you are totally correct but for some reason the short interval just makes me feel better -- probably psychological but then again I am a little nuts (about the NSX)!

Best,
Jeff