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Top mounts/pillowball mounts

TURBO2GO

TURBO2GO

Illustrious Member
Joined
8 March 2006
Messages
16,594
Location
Boston
OK I spent 20 minutes searching prime, then google, and still can't find good info.

Apparently my KW Competition dampers I bought used do not have top mounts and I need to buy some. The choices are drilling out my OEM mounts, buying top mounts from Procar that fit these for about $600 Euro, or buying pillowball mounts for $1000 euro. So probably around $800 and $1300. NOT CHEAP FOR EITHER.

But the real problem is... I don't even understand any of this shit. From what I gathered on other car forums, a pillowball mount makes the damper ride on a spherical bearing, and therefore takes away the standard mount bushing's compliance... this makes for slightly better handling but adds some ride harshness and noise... Is this right?

Can you guys please give me some guidance? All my searches came up with on prime are things for sale, no real explanation. Billy if you read this... I contacted Mr. Marion, but he seems to check email or respond once every two weeks. I am still sitting here with the mega suspension collecting dust in my basement. And I don't like it that Liquid is now outcornering me around WGI in his Z06....
 
<img src="http://www.nsxpartsdb.com/img/parts/13SL00_009_9.png" width=800>

Dave drill out #5 and both #6s (which are rubber) and replace #16 with a colar that fits the rod of the KWs. I'm guessing the diameter of the rod for the KWs is the same as my JRZs and I found a piece to replace #16 at Ace Hardware that was a perfect fit. All these pieces you are drilling out are cheap to replace if you go back to OEM. Then the KW rod goes through and use two nuts on the top to secure.

You might also try Chris @ SOS as the pic below shows KW v3 using OEM mounts.

KWfactorytopmount_800.jpg


PS: PM Titanium Dave as he made the pillowball mounts for the JRZs and I'm betting it's the same rod diameter which means he can very easily make you a set for A LOT less than a certain German guy.
 
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The stock top mounts don't need to be drilled out for the KW V3. Measure the rod of your shock, if it's 10mm, no drilling needed. By the way, we also offer top hats for the NSX for quite a bit less. Let me know what the diameter is, and we'll set you up.

-- Chris
 
With the extremely high rate springs that are on your KW's, I wouldn't worry too much about harshness in the top mounts. Go for a well engineered top mount. Your shocks will thank you for that.

Off topic: Have you gotten spacers for the bottom shock mounts?
 
Hey Chris, I don't have V3's, I have the Competition, remote reservoir dampers. These:

KW.jpg


You think you can help me? I will measure my rod. I'm sure its larger than Jim's Rod. :biggrin:
 
this is getting pathetic..the only thing this fancy suspenion has done is increase your post count....When I get home I will get the name and number of the race shop that was supporting at least 6-7 cars at your last track event..they are out of Boston...Bring car and suspension to them and pick up installed/tuned car......:confused:
 
docjohn said:
this is getting pathetic..the only thing this fancy suspenion has done is increase your post count....When I get home I will get the name and number of the race shop that was supporting at least 6-7 cars at your last track event..they are out of Boston...Bring car and suspension to them and pick up installed/tuned car......:confused:
Click to expand...

+1 :biggrin:
 
docjohn said:
this is getting pathetic..the only thing this fancy suspenion has done is increase your post count....When I get home I will get the name and number of the race shop that was supporting at least 6-7 cars at your last track event..they are out of Boston...Bring car and suspension to them and pick up installed/tuned car......:confused:
Click to expand...

He will still suck as a driver..........:tongue:
 
Haters... No rides for you and Bob.

Doc are you talking about the Mazda guys? I was gonna install these myself. Doesn't look that hard if I have parts that fit!
 
TURBO2GO said:
Haters... No rides for you and Bob.

Doc are you talking about the Mazda guys? I was gonna install these myself. Doesn't look that hard if I have parts that fit!
Click to expand...

It's not Dave. But you are missing top mounts and spacers for the bottom. I believe we pointed this out to you 6 months ago. Those spacers aren't exactly easy to source, but a race shop would know exactly what to get and where.

Just take it to a race shop and let them do it. Drop off the car and you can pick it up installed, corner balanced and aligned. Otherwise you will be dicking with it for another year. What did you pay for these things? $5k+? Procar dicked you over on them because they should have sent all the parts. Just take it to a race shop and be done with it.

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Patience Dave, I'll post thier info later....
 
OK, I'm a little upset that I need all this stuff and had no idea when I bought the set. Jim no one said anything about the spacers 6 months ago. This is the first I hear of it.

Thanks.

Someone wanna explain pillowball mounts to me? I still wonder about the differences. I'd like to know for my own knowledge base even if I don't buy any.
 
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I never realized it was so much work and money to keep up with a lowly domestic. When will you learn that you need to take the retail cost of the modificiation and multiply it by three to get it on your car and working properly?
 
It's no big deal. Regarding the lower mount bushings, they probably can be sourced from another coil over, as the bearing is fairly common. The NSX control arm tab widths are somewhat unique. We may have extras. If you need some, I need you to measure the inner diameter of the bearing and the width (dimension B and W in this drawing) - you'll need a caliper to do this properly and the dimensions will likely be in round mm:

http://www.bakerprecision.com/images/abt.jpg

Otherwise, if you ship them to us, we can figure it out for you.

-- Chris
 
Take a picture of your dampers rotated 90* so you can see the "eye-holes" for the lower mounting brackets. Their should be monoball/spherical bearings already in the bottom of your dampers. So all you would need is a simple stepped spacer which can be machined very easily on a lathe. All you need to know is the Inner Diameter (ID) of the spherical bearing, the width of it, and the width of the area the spacer needs to take up.

In regards to the top hats. Email Chris Marion again. He's in Germany getting the top hats made right now. Also measure the diameter of the threaded shaft. If its the same as stock, you can just use your stock top hats. If its larger, do what others have said by increasing the ID of your stock top hats and get a larger "sleeve" (that fits in the rubber bushing).

Monoballs are just a spherical bearing where a metal ball (with a hole in it where the shock body goes through) sits in a carrier with extremely tight tolerances and allows for no slop or deflection that the stock rubber bushing has. But it also does not have the damping ability that rubber has. A good monoball should not make any noise and most people cannot tell a big ride quality difference since a lot has to do with the spring rates and damper internals (crappy shock = crappy ride, good damper = better ride thats less harsh).

Everyone is blowing this way out of proportion and making it into a much bigger issue than it really is. Just have the lower spacers made (easy) and modify the stock top hats (easy) or get the monoballs from KW (easy) or have a set already made adapted to your suspension (more work).


Billy
 
guys look at the facts...If it was so easy Dave would have done it long ago, in fact nothing has been done,so I doubt there will be much in the way of latheing/mocking up/testing anything hence my suggestion to send it to some pros.Dave when your customers ask you questions do you tell them to help themselves on the AV forums...:rolleyes:
 
I don't know if everyone is blowing this out of proportion. The OP seems to want to know more about what is missing and his available options. I agree that it's not a big deal although it has led to some very informative posts, particularily those that list potential resources. When building a custom setup, it is key to have a good relationship with your builder so you can get it close to as right on the first attempt. In the OP's case, it looks like it would be a person who will take their time to answer his questions and educate him. That's not something that every shop has time and patience to do, especially since this most likely is a one-time build with lots of time, little money/profit (if any), and the potential for this customer ending up being a huge headache for them.

The thing that worries me the most is: Is this uber setup a good match with the OP? It is going to be seriously harsh and if he goes down the entire road of building out this setup, will he look back and think that a revalved Koni setup would have met his needs?

BTW, I don't know what is his current setup but if he currently has the oem top mounts on the car, he could re-use them with the KW's. The spacer thing can be sourced easily as has been mentioned.
 
TURBO2GO said:
Jim no one said anything about the spacers 6 months ago. This is the first I hear of it.
Click to expand...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135737

POST #24 & #28 - April 2010

Dave, it's not a huge deal. These parts aren't specific to KW, etc. But you can run around trying to take measurements, and finding a source, etc or drop it off at a shop and say "take care of it." Sometimes, you are better off doing that even though you could do it yourself. For example - you have had these paper weights since Spring and track season is almost over. :tongue:
 
I have no affiliation with these guys other than having a nice talk with a few mechanics and one of thier clients...Independent Ferrari Service inc...14 Bristol dr. Unit-F S. Easton Ma [email protected]
 
OK I took some pictures and measurements. The damper "rod" is 10 mm. The bolt at the top is also 10mm.

The thinner part of this rod:

KWrod-1.jpg


Here is a photo of the bottom part, they all have these bearings:

KWbearing.jpg


Billy... Chris Marion is getting hats for who? Me? I'll email again but I have emailed twice and with no reply, I don't want to be a pest.

Doc, I am really learning a lot here (and so are many guys that PM me and say "thanks for asking these questions"). The coilovers have not gone into my car for months because I am busy with work. I think I want to do this myself and learn something.

Chris@sos, I forgot to measure inside the lower bearings. I will do so tomorrow.
 
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