Turbo sizing and recommendations for a unopened 3.0

[BATMANs]

......It's crazy that primers would rather pretend to know what they are talking then to ask questions and seek to understand this stuff......If you want respect and possibly more sales from people who actually understand this stuff.. ditch the stainless charge pipe and twin scroll on an open y... seriously

I find this to be VERY true.

The average NSX owner is the family man that is usually more financially secure than the average vette or FD owner. NSX guys usually have a house or 2, spouse and kids. The American dream.

But when it comes to knowledge-base on cars at the deeper level. NOT!

Often I end up going to the LSx sites for true knowledge base on matters related to cam profiling, compression ratios, A/F ratios relative to 91 octane, E85, etc.

Of the top of my head I can probably count the technically savvy ones on both of my hands.

I've mentioned this to STMPO - if I didn't live in CA with all these smog barriers I would have gone with his turbo solution (instead of the SOS SC) a long time ago for 2 reasons:

1. Adjusting boost on the fly
2. Cheaper

 

[angus]

WOW...

wow is the word used when I flip through your thread counting the amount of times your posts were edited.

go back and edit your post that says "under 5 psi you wouldnt hurt anything"

and dont make me look like an asshole when you use a twin on an open y and continue to give people ss charge piping.

I should copy your comment about your turbo... post it on honda-tech and see what people who are knowledgeable on FI have to say about your perfectly sized turbo research.

like I said.. I waived the flag.. no point

OK Ross, if you've waived the flag then I'll give you the last word too.

Thanks,

Wil

 

[Flexer]

Im not sure if you are condoning the gtx3076r or criticizing it. I know at 58mm it's a bit smaller than most run for their application but i think most people run turbochargers much larger than they need because they don't know any better. Well see how it performs in the real world, but on paper this looks to be the best turbocharger below 500whp on this size engine. It should be able to make around 600whp at higher boost, but not very efficiently on the 3.0l, it would be better for smaller 2.0-2.4l engines.

I know Cody was testing a billet 58mm unit on one of his cars i was hoping to see how that turned out.

Your killing me here. A GTX30/76R Is not going to make 600 whp........Well, anything is possible but now you are talking about a SUPER efficient motor, reving out like CRAZY, and running REALLY aggressive timing on some race gas. but even then I say no.

Go look at the compressor map. At the boost levels (P/R) where that thing would start approaching 600 whp, that turbo is running out of breath. And at the flow levels of 3.0 L your chocking yourself on that upper end anyway, which is I guess why you said better matched for 2.0 - 2.4L motor, BUT STILL your number is up in the night.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Your killing me here. A GTX30/76R Is not going to make 600 whp........Well, anything is possible but now you are talking about a SUPER efficient motor, reving out like CRAZY, and running REALLY aggressive timing on some race gas. but even then I say no.

Go look at the compressor map. At the boost levels (P/R) where that thing would start approaching 600 whp, that turbo is running out of breath. And at the flow levels of 3.0 L your chocking yourself on that upper end anyway, which is I guess why you said better matched for 2.0 - 2.4L motor, BUT STILL your number is up in the night.

I agree with you there but he did say in the future... the 3076 is a perfect match for his current goal.. and a t3 y-pipe will allow a 35r or 37r to be a direct bolt on replacement.. not to mention the rumored 32r to be released shortly.. which is what I'm holding out for.

And where are you at when people are buying gt40r's and gt42r's to make 400... that gets mentioned almost daily with out anyone say's.... YOUR F"ING CRAZY

The knowledgable turbo crowd has yet to surface on this website...

First time turbo owners are telling other people to buy the incorrect set-up they currently own.

NSXPrime should start a new forum dedicated to users that have passed an FI knowledge test in order to post in that section... but allow all users to read it.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Your killing me here. A GTX30/76R Is not going to make 600 whp........Well, anything is possible but now you are talking about a SUPER efficient motor, reving out like CRAZY, and running REALLY aggressive timing on some race gas. but even then I say no.

Go look at the compressor map. At the boost levels (P/R) where that thing would start approaching 600 whp, that turbo is running out of breath. And at the flow levels of 3.0 L your chocking yourself on that upper end anyway, which is I guess why you said better matched for 2.0 - 2.4L motor, BUT STILL your number is up in the night.

I didn't say it was the ideal turbocharger for a 600whp setup, I said it would be an excellent turbocharger for 500whp or less and that it CAN make 600whp. As you can see the NSX engine would want to make 600whp at a much lower boost level than the GTX3076r can actually produce the airflow for 600whp. This means you would have to run the turbocharger at a higher boost level and out of breath actually making 600whp not at an extremely high redline on our engine but rather somewhat early in the rpm range but hp would flatline and torque would drop because the turbocharger is out of efficient airflow. Not ideal but possible.

I did look at the compressor map, I posted it and plotted the data. Like i said it wouldn't be ideal for the 3.0l given how well it flows at higher pressure levels but the turbo can flow 64-65 lb/min which is enough for 600whp give or take a few.

Oh and here is a GTX3076r making 600whp on a zetec ford focus the most efficient of motors.

 

[Flexer]

I agree with you there but he did say in the future... the 3076 is a perfect match for his current goal.. and a t3 y-pipe will allow a 35r or 37r to be a direct bolt on replacement.. not to mention the rumored 32r to be released shortly.. which is what I'm holding out for.

And where are you at when people are buying gt40r's and gt42r's to make 400... that gets mentioned almost daily with out anyone say's.... YOUR F"ING CRAZY

The knowledgable turbo crowd has yet to surface on this website...

First time turbo owners are telling other people to buy the incorrect set-up they currently own.

NSXPrime should start a new forum dedicated to users that have passed an FI knowledge test in order to post in that section... but allow all users to read it.

Knowledgeable crowd. Who would that be? And don't be stupid. You can't just say "And where are you at when people are buying gt40r's and gt42r's to make 400... that gets mentioned almost daily with out anyone say's.... YOUR F"ING CRAZY" CAUSE THATS WHAT WE WOULD SAY IF SOMEONE SAID THEY ONLY WANTED to RUN A MAX of 6 psi or something stupid.

There was a day when the turbo crowd was on this forum, but the hay days are over. Many of us have moved on to other cars. Shoot, I got so bored I had to build my own car just to entertain myself.

Knowledgeable crowd....... Naive comment.

JR

 

[Nick675]

Knowledgeable crowd....... Naive comment.

JR

+1
Some, myself included; remain silent because we have better things to do in life.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Knowledgeable crowd. Who would that be? And don't be stupid. You can't just say "And where are you at when people are buying gt40r's and gt42r's to make 400... that gets mentioned almost daily with out anyone say's.... YOUR F"ING CRAZY" CAUSE THATS WHAT WE WOULD SAY IF SOMEONE SAID THEY ONLY WANTED to RUN A MAX of 6 psi or something stupid.

There was a day when the turbo crowd was on this forum, but the hay days are over. Many of us have moved on to other cars. Shoot, I got so bored I had to build my own car just to entertain myself.

Knowledgeable crowd....... Naive comment.

JR

+1
Some, myself included; remain silent because we have better things to do in life.

ok... then here is another perspective... while the knowledgable remain silent.. the others have been given tainted information... those with tainted information now look knowledgable.. and are recomending the same tainted info... since the original knowledgable crowd... remains silent.

I have better things to do now as well.... so I understand

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

We have two cars to dyno this week, both with variants of the Precision Billet 58mm turbocharger. One is a competitors kit on a 91, one is a LoveFab Stage 2 on an 01.


We baselined the 91 as it came to us with the competitor's kit installed. We performed a turbo and fuel management swap. I'm very anxious to see the differences.

Look for a couple of threads in the coming days.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

We have two cars to dyno this week, both with variants of the Precision Billet 58mm turbocharger. One is a competitors kit on a 91, one is a LoveFab Stage 2 on an 01.


We baselined the 91 as it came to us with the competitor's kit installed. We performed a turbo and fuel management swap. I'm very anxious to see the differences.

Look for a couple of threads in the coming days.

Cody,

I hope one of them is Juice's NSX... his mod list is here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145336

Airflow
o LoveFab Stage X Turbo Kit
 LoveFab primaries
 LoveFab secondaries
 Twin Burns stainless steel exhaust
 LoveFab ATW intercooler
 Garrett GTX-35R
 SP Racing quick spool valve
 Tial blow off valve
 AEM inline wideband EUGO

I want to see stellar numbers there since that is how I would have ordered a Lovefab Turbo if I was a customer of yours.

I hope the other kit was ours.... I'm not sure who bought our kit from sourceone... but if they contact us... we have a new charge pipe we want to offer them...

The NSX owner that we originally made this "RSTB charge pipe" for... hasn’t been able to install it yet...

For those that wanted the "stealth turbo"... when this is installed... the inlet from the engine fan and outlet to the Tbody are fabricated to be "looked for" .. not... obvious

We have this part jigged and we would make it again if it were ordered.

I never posted it... we didnt want it copied.



Regards

 

[BATMANs]

Ross,

Ur part is a very cleaver design.

The best engineering is often simplicity and multi purpose.

U've done well here on 2 counts that I can think of since my coffee hasn't kicked in yet

1. Less parts count (use a strut bar to duct to the FI solution which also means less clutter and weight)
2. Stealth

I believe in teh USA patents are first to invent instead of first to file.

 

[EAC]

Whoa! The intercooler pipe is built into the brace! Nice!

 

[BATMANs]

Whoa! The intercooler pipe is built into the brace! Nice!

Amazing isn't it?

I was one of the lucky guys that saw pics of an arch-type centrifugal blower that connected right to the strut bar.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Ross,

Ur part is a very cleaver design.

The best engineering is often simplicity and multi purpose.

U've done well here on 2 counts that I can think of since my coffee hasn't kicked in yet

1. Less parts count (use a strut bar to duct to the FI solution which also means less clutter and weight)
2. Stealth

I believe in teh USA patents are first to invent instead of first to file.

Whoa! The intercooler pipe is built into the brace! Nice!

LOL... I had no idea the OP was still lingering around.....lmao

I thought this turned into an information thread...

and yes... the two bird one stone is in play here... the NSX is perfect for this part as the rstb charge pipe would be ideal for any set-up under about 15 lbs... anythiing more and it would start to become in-effecient.

Square tubing works as long the inlet/outlet remain round... LE and other regulatory bodies will see the square tubing and eliminate the thought of FI.

BTW - at low boost (under 15 lbs) ....the volume stays consistant though the channel.

Regards

 

[BATMANs]

........ the two bird one stone is in play here... the NSX is perfect for this part as the rstb charge pipe would be ideal for any set-up under about 15 lbs... anythiing more and it would start to become in-effecient.

Square tubing works as long the inlet/outlet remain round... LE and other regulatory bodies will see the square tubing and eliminate the thought of FI.

BTW - at low boost (under 15 lbs) ....the volume stays consistant though the channel.

Regards

Ross,

One of my friends works at Lockheed and said that one of the most efficient port shape that minimize turbulence and maximize flow is the one that you see on the F-16 where it's a D/crescent-shaped.

If u can implement that in that RSTB for F/I it could allow for greater boost.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Ross,

One of my friends works at Lockheed and said that one of the most efficient port shape that minimize turbulence and maximize flow is the one that you see on the F-16 where it's a D/crescent-shaped.

If u can implement that in that RSTB for F/I it could allow for greater boost.

He is 100% correct... but the cost of d-shaped tubing wasent in our budget when we built that RSTB.

It's hard to find and they wanted way to much for a 4 foot piece.

Regards

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Amazing isn't it?

I was one of the lucky guys that saw pics of an arch-type centrifugal blower that connected right to the strut bar.

lol... please dont share those pics

 

[BATMANs]

lol... please dont share those pics

Oh No.

Ur secrets are safe in the BAT-BANK. LOL

 

[Moses]

Amazing work as always.....

STMPO does it again, now let's see who copies them again. :biggrin:

 

[Flexer]

ok... then here is another perspective... while the knowledgable remain silent.. the others have been given tainted information... those with tainted information now look knowledgable.. and are recomending the same tainted info... since the original knowledgable crowd... remains silent.

I have better things to do now as well.... so I understand

I remain silent because I don't want to make people mad, and sometimes I remain silent because we are bickering over nothing. SMALL gains really. I keep my mouth shut when we are talking about 2-5% gains.

It would be like me arguing about using a 30R or 35R in a twin scroll format is CRAP because the flute of the housing and wheel of those turbo's was never ment to be run in a twin scroll. Only single tang....... but have found it really doesn't matter. The gain is TS far outweights. But then again...all this doesn't matter to the avg. NSX crowd who are just looking to get some good power gains.

I could even pick your "turbo kit" apart but do I....... no.

Now I am going back to my cave. Sorry to have come out of hiding.

JR

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

Cody,

I hope one of them is Juice's NSX... his mod list is here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145336

Airflow
o LoveFab Stage X Turbo Kit
 LoveFab primaries
 LoveFab secondaries
 Twin Burns stainless steel exhaust
 LoveFab ATW intercooler
 Garrett GTX-35R
 SP Racing quick spool valve
 Tial blow off valve
 AEM inline wideband EUGO

I want to see stellar numbers there since that is how I would have ordered a Lovefab Turbo if I was a customer of yours.

I hope the other kit was ours.... I'm not sure who bought our kit from sourceone... but if they contact us... we have a new charge pipe we want to offer them...

Juice's car is on another level entirely. His car will be announced this spring. He's using a GT42GTX with some trickery. 14psi by 4500rpm with 570+ftlbs on pump gas....so far.

The other kit is neither yours nor Prospeeds, Ross. I started to tune the car tonight but found some problems with the previous installation. Back on the lift it goes...

 

[Juice]

Whoops! It IS a 42; my bad. Not sure how I got 35 stuck in my head?????

Oh, and there are some cam gears sitting on my dining table that just arrived today.

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

Good to hear Juice! Can't wait to finish up and see what the beast can do.


Oh and for the record, a GT42GTX is NOT a good match for an unopened 3.0.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Juice's car is on another level entirely. His car will be announced this spring. He's using a GT42GTX with some trickery. 14psi by 4500rpm with 570+ftlbs on pump gas....so far.

The other kit is neither yours nor Prospeeds, Ross. I started to tune the car tonight but found some problems with the previous installation. Back on the lift it goes...

then... does anyone know where my turbo kit went?

I think you just ruled out the possibilities and pointed to the ap-x... unless it’s sduffass’s turbo… that dude needs his car back… bad

If it is an AP-X…. of anyone on here.. you have t-4 open turbo flanges on the shelf... weld one on for the owner.. it will cost way more for the customer in the future.

Good to hear Juice! Can't wait to finish up and see what the beast can do.


Oh and for the record, a GT42GTX is NOT a good match for an unopened 3.0.

lol... a gt42gtx is not as good match for an unopened rb25, rb26 and 2jz either....hahaha

Juice... I like the amount of balls you carry with ya... I would bet the car makes less power but drives better with your 35r... but good luck regardless.

Cody, did you sell that rb manifold... got any pics of the final install?

rb's with top mounts look sexy in anything... nice work on that collector.. 2jz and rb's require the most time and skill with all 6 runners...

BTW - Scott and Chris told me about how chilly the track was at spring mountain... I thought that was funny

Regards

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

I remain silent because I don't want to make people mad, and sometimes I remain silent because we are bickering over nothing. SMALL gains really. I keep my mouth shut when we are talking about 2-5% gains.

It would be like me arguing about using a 30R or 35R in a twin scroll format is CRAP because the flute of the housing and wheel of those turbo's was never ment to be run in a twin scroll. Only single tang....... but have found it really doesn't matter. The gain is TS far outweights. But then again...all this doesn't matter to the avg. NSX crowd who are just looking to get some good power gains.

I could even pick your "turbo kit" apart but do I....... no.

Now I am going back to my cave. Sorry to have come out of hiding.

JR

I talk to some pretty big wigs in the turbo world.. one guy that never bs's me...

your actualy right about the twin scroll on t-3's... he stated .. if you were Garrett... and needed to create new idea's to keep interest in your products... why not.

like I stated before... I think the 32r could become the new flagship for garrett bb turbo's... they just need to stop talking about it and make the dam thing.

Regards