Turbo sizing and recommendations for a unopened 3.0

[EAC]

Glad to see some input.

After some thought, I'm thinking about starting off big (T70 Based). If it's too big/laggy, I can always swap out a housing and wheel. No big deal.

The turbo I'm looking at ordering today is;

Compressor Wheel 69mm @ inducer and 98mm @ exducer / 50 Trim
T4 Flange - Divided
Turbine Wheel 87.4 Inducer, 77 Exducer, 1.05 A/R / 78 Trim

Comments welcome, for those experienced :redface:

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Glad to see some input.

After some thought, I'm thinking about starting off big (T70 Based). If it's too big/laggy, I can always swap out a housing and wheel. No big deal.

The turbo I'm looking at ordering today is;

Compressor Wheel 69mm @ inducer and 98mm @ exducer / 50 Trim
T4 Flange - Divided
Turbine Wheel 87.4 Inducer, 77 Exducer, 1.05 A/R / 78 Trim

Comments welcome, for those experienced :redface:

talk about a 180 from what everyone has suggested. Why are you looking to start with a 69mm turbo for 400-450whp goals?

 

[EAC]

talk about a 180 from what everyone has suggested. Why are you looking to start with a 69mm turbo for 400-450whp goals?

I figure this will give me plenty of room down the road if I want to build the motor and turn it up.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I figure this will give me plenty of room down the road if I want to build the motor and turn it up.

67mm turbochargers are netting in the 900whp range, the new 70mm garrett's in the 1000+whp area. are you really wanting that much power?

 

[EAC]

67mm turbochargers are netting in the 900whp range, the new 70mm garrett's in the 1000+whp area. are you really wanting that much power?

HA, to tell you the truth, I don't know what I want. I decided to put a 80mm (At inducer) turbo on my RX7, and later kicked myself in the ass. What can I say, I just love big turbo's. :biggrin:

 

[E-Nough Logic]

HA, to tell you the truth, I don't know what I want. I decided to put a 80mm (At inducer) turbo on my RX7, and later kicked myself in the ass. What can I say, I just love big turbo's. :biggrin:

It's all up to you, I'm just trying to help make sure you know what you are getting. There is a big difference between a 61mm and a 69mm turbo.

 

[stuntman]

Hugo,

A turbo manifold... just like a y-pipe or even a header.. collect's exhaust gases. The goal is to collect them evenly and without turbulence.

Turbo's are sensitive ... they want "predictability"... the easier the air enters the turbo.. the more response the turbine will have.

If you look how the 3 exhaust pipes "run into each other rather than flow with each other... you can start to understand this theory.

Looking at other manifolds done correctly would be your next step... I'll use another NSX fabricators products to explain... since his turbo kit uses a y-pipe and remote turbo... which isn’t "un-oem” at all considering Porsches have remote turbos too...

Have a pic of your Y-pipe?

 

[Moses]

Have a pic of your Y-pipe?

and Angus' y-pipe as well

 

[Moses]

I have the privilage of working with many Full-Race and AFI-Turbo fabricators...

Full-Race and AFI are only 3 miles from my shop...

Here is our K20 Turbo Manifold... rotating the air prior to the turbine wheel also has been proven to increase response.

Those welds are peerrtty:biggrin:

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Have a pic of your Y-pipe?

STMPO's y-pipe or Hugo's y-pipe?

 

[flyeyes]

I can vouch for EAC's "Knowledge on building shit the right way", I think he's looking for a few minor details is all. Because the dude is VERY capable from what I've seen on past projects.

I think you just need a bump, or "push" off the right ledge Eric. lol:tongue:
I knew you wouldn't last long leaving that car alone, haha! You had the bug a LOOOOOONG time ago.:biggrin:

 

[EAC]

I can vouch for EAC's "Knowledge on building shit the right way", I think he's looking for a few minor details is all. Because the dude is VERY capable from what I've seen on past projects.

I think you just need a bump, or "push" off the right ledge Eric. lol:tongue:
I knew you wouldn't last long leaving that car alone, haha! You had the bug a LOOOOOONG time ago.:biggrin:

Joe, I just just need to not go overboard like I have in the past. The last thing I want to do is break this motor.

I'll get with you, on the new plans. :biggrin:

All, thanks for you help!

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Have a pic of your Y-pipe?

Which one Billy... we designed a few based on custom configurations.



STMPO turbo kit

316 Stainless T3 Twin Scroll

Schedule 10 T3 Twin Scroll

Nils Turbo

The turbo that comes with my kit is an excellent match to the NSX motor and cost effective too.

Angus - Congrats again on your turbo kit success... but please... stop telling potential turbo buyers your turbo is matched to this motor.

You use a twin scroll turbo on an open y-pipe... most NSX owners have no clue what that means... Here is a pic showing the divided turbo housing and the build up of exhaust in red.. also the exhaust leak forming because of it in blue from the "Angus Turbo Roll Call" thread which doesn’t have tons of views..

also the quote from the owner of the kit on that thread...

This old exhaust housing is the same size my friend's big turbo diesel truck has in it. Everybody I talk to (except angus) thinks it is way oversized for the requirements of this car and my power level. The fact that there's a 90 degree bend in the Y-pipe right before it goes into the housing means it is quite possible that more exhaust was being forced into one side of the housing than the other, which can't be good. Since the y-pipe isn't divided it makes no sense to have a divided housing on the turbo anyway.

I'm not trying to throw you under the bus... but saying it was sized to the NSX is a blunt lie.






EAC - I have no interest in building a turbo kit for any more NSX's. Good luck with the sizing stuff... personally.. I think your turbo choice is way big... but that’s my opinion.




Regards

 

[goa360]

I am liking this thread...and hoping it reaches the end goal. I have similar requirement as OP. I got so confused last year...ended up buying a motorcycle and best decision I ever made! Hope this year will be better.

 

[BATMANs]

Joe, I just just need to not go overboard like I have in the past. The last thing I want to do is break this motor.

I'll get with you, on the new plans. :biggrin:

All, thanks for you help!

EAC,

I think u and I are on the same page. Otherwise we wouldn't have moved towards the NSX in the first place.

I just came back from STMPO (800 mile drive each way) and he did a superb job on my exhaust and also hooked me up and provided hospitality that's unequal.

I'll post more about that experience as soon as I finish some little details on my NSX with professional pics and videos to boot.

Had I not lived in California I would have gone with the STMPO turbos based on my desire to boost no more than 1 bar of boost on pump gas.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

EAC,

I think u and I are on the same page. Otherwise we wouldn't have moved towards the NSX in the first place.

I just came back from STMPO (800 mile drive each way) and he did a superb job on my exhaust and also hooked me up and provided hospitality that's unequal.

I'll post more about that experience as soon as I finish some little details on my NSX with professional pics and videos to boot.

Had I not lived in California I would have gone with the STMPO turbos based on my desire to boost no more than 1 bar of boost on pump gas.

Thanks for the kind words Batmans... pics of your car do not show how nice it really is... I haven’t stared at an NSX in 3 years... I just couldn’t stop looking at it...

Just to say it again on this thread.. were not interested in building/selling a turbo kit for the NSX anymore. We feel our research and design is superior to anything else at this point... were gonna keep that knowledge proprietary since we will enter the Redline/Superlap and other time attack race series this year.

If the OP decided he wants to buy a big turbo.. I will offer him a Precision T4 dual ball bearing with billet turbine wheel for only 1000.00 bucks.

This is the turbo Cody sells with his kit (I acquired it via trade) retail is over 1800.00 on the turbo itself. The kit had minimul miles on it.. I would call it a brand new " already broken in turbo".

It is too big for any application were looking to implement.

Regards

 

[BATMANs]

got any pics to share with Prime?

 

[angus]

Ross... you are certainly entitled to your own opionion and you do have a lot of good info to input here.

The turbo that I sell with my kit (IMO) IS VERY well matched to the NSX motor, I spent a long time coming up with it and it is a custom combination which is not an off the shelf part since I could not get anything to do what I wanted it to ( I also provide the option to request any turbo under the sun with my kit).

There are dyno graphs displaying the HP/torque curve of this turbo, it does certainly do what I intended, which is boost the NSX motor without altering the "feel" of the motor - i.e. it does not give a huge "kick" anywhere in the RPM range - it instead it looks similar the the factory curve, only way higher.

If a customer wants a turbo with a kick to it then I can easily supply a different turbo.

The divided housing is due to the fact that I was originally going to do a twin scroll setup (which I may still do with this kit in future) and this is what was available in the correct configuration (v-band, T-4, etc.), while a non divided housing would be "technically correct" I have had ZERO issues and the so-called "leak forming" is not a leak and has not been a leak on anyones car that I have seen and if it was I'd obviously be all over it.

The bottom line here is this turbo does what it is meant to do, I could buy any turbo at any price from anywhere to run on my own car but guess what? This is the turbo on my very own car and I really like it - and so does almost every single person who has it (even cozmo after a housing change that cost him a teriyaki bowl...)

Don't worry Ross, no hard feelings and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you - just wanted to point out some facts.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Ross... you are certainly entitled to your own opionion and you do have a lot of good info to input here.

The turbo that I sell with my kit (IMO) IS VERY well matched to the NSX motor, I spent a long time coming up with it and it is a custom combination which is not an off the shelf part since I could not get anything to do what I wanted it to ( I also provide the option to request any turbo under the sun with my kit).

There are dyno graphs displaying the HP/torque curve of this turbo, it does certainly do what I intended, which is boost the NSX motor without altering the "feel" of the motor - i.e. it does not give a huge "kick" anywhere in the RPM range - it instead it looks similar the the factory curve, only way higher.

If a customer wants a turbo with a kick to it then I can easily supply a different turbo.

The divided housing is due to the fact that I was originally going to do a twin scroll setup (which I may still do with this kit in future) and this is what was available in the correct configuration (v-band, T-4, etc.), while a non divided housing would be "technically correct" I have had ZERO issues and the so-called "leak forming" is not a leak and has not been a leak on anyones car that I have seen and if it was I'd obviously be all over it.

The bottom line here is this turbo does what it is meant to do, I could buy any turbo at any price from anywhere to run on my own car but guess what? This is the turbo on my very own car and I really like it - and so does almost every single person who has it (even cozmo after a housing change that cost him a teriyaki bowl...)

Don't worry Ross, no hard feelings and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you - just wanted to point out some facts.

There are a lot of other smaller turbochargers that can do that too without a huge spike on torque. As long as the turbocharger can meet the air demands of the engine efficiently then the curve will follow that of the original engine. That curve is defined by the VE of the engine which doesnt change.

You went through all that work to find a specific turbocharger that can meet all of your criteria and an open housing to mate to your open y pipe was not one of the requirements?

 

[NetViper]

There are dyno graphs displaying the HP/torque curve of this turbo, it does certainly do what I intended, which is boost the NSX motor without altering the "feel" of the motor - i.e. it does not give a huge "kick" anywhere in the RPM range - it instead it looks similar the the factory curve, only way higher.

IMO, the CTSC does not alter the "feel" of the motor. It feels like a NSX with a V8.

Your kit certainly doesn't feel that way to me. It feels like a turbo and it feels awesome. Both cars I have been in will put you back in the seat pretty hard at about 4,000-4,500 RPM. This is a very different feeling compared to a stock NSX.

Personally, I really like your kit.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Ross... you are certainly entitled to your own opinion and you do have a lot of good info to input here.

The turbo that I sell with my kit (IMO) IS VERY well matched to the NSX motor, I spent a long time coming up with it and it is a custom combination which is not an off the shelf part since I could not get anything to do what I wanted it to ( I also provide the option to request any turbo under the sun with my kit).

There are dyno graphs displaying the HP/torque curve of this turbo, it does certainly do what I intended, which is boost the NSX motor without altering the "feel" of the motor - i.e. it does not give a huge "kick" anywhere in the RPM range - it instead it looks similar the factory curve, only way higher.

If a customer wants a turbo with a kick to it then I can easily supply a different turbo.

The divided housing is due to the fact that I was originally going to do a twin scroll setup (which I may still do with this kit in future) and this is what was available in the correct configuration (v-band, T-4, etc.), while a non divided housing would be "technically correct" I have had ZERO issues and the so-called "leak forming" is not a leak and has not been a leak on anyones car that I have seen and if it was I'd obviously be all over it.

The bottom line here is this turbo does what it is meant to do, I could buy any turbo at any price from anywhere to run on my own car but guess what? This is the turbo on my very own car and I really like it - and so does almost every single person who has it (even cozmo after a housing change that cost him a teriyaki bowl...)

Don't worry Ross, no hard feelings and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you - just wanted to point out some facts.

Hey man... I waived the white flag last year when even this thread...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139607&highlight=stmpo+turbo

with this chart...

Couldn’t sell a single STMPO Turbo Kit... So I no longer compete for your business..

If you look at the chart... it wasn’t because I don’t know what I’m doing.

It's also not rocket science to realize your using the wrong hot side... you originally didn’t use a BOV... I called you out on that... and now you do.

If I saw you eating soup with a fork.. I'd hand you a spoon. There is no way to properly size a fork to soup...

Change to open hotside dude.. it will only benefit you.. there is no possible way it can hurt you.

You went through all that work to find a specific turbocharger that can meet all of your criteria and an open housing to mate to your open y pipe was not one of the requirements?

I just saw your signature bro.. lol... you will be the first NSX to install a 3076 that I know of... congrats on your research and please post numbers man...

It's crazy that primers would rather pretend to know what they are talking then to ask questions and seek to understand this stuff.

Netviper - This has nothing to do with dyno's... a t4 turbo on a rid-a- along lawn mower would put you in your seat...

Angus - Your turbo kit sells... congrats... That is a feat I could not accomplish for some F-ed up reason.

If you want respect and possibly more sales from people who actually understand this stuff.. ditch the stainless charge pipe and twin scroll on an open y... seriously

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Hey man... I waived the white flag last year when even this thread...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139607&highlight=stmpo+turbo

with this chart...

Couldn’t sell a single STMPO Turbo Kit... So I no longer compete for your business..

If you look at the chart... it wasn’t because I don’t know what I’m doing.

It's also not rocket science to realize your using the wrong hot side... you originally didn’t use a BOV... I called you out on that... and now you do.

If I saw you eating soup with a fork.. I'd hand you a spoon. There is no way to properly size a fork to soup...

Change to open hotside dude.. it will only benefit you.. there is no possible way it can hurt you.




I just saw your signature bro.. lol... you will be the first NSX to install a 3076 that I know of... congrats on your research and please post numbers man...

It's crazy that primers would rather pretend to know what they are talking then to ask questions and seek to understand this stuff.

Netviper - This has nothing to do with dyno's... a t4 turbo on a rid-a- along lawn mower would put you in your seat...

Angus - Your turbo kit sells... congrats... That is a feat I could not accomplish for some F-ed up reason.

If you want respect and possibly more sales from people who actually understand this stuff.. ditch the stainless charge pipe and twin scroll on an open y... seriously

Im not sure if you are condoning the gtx3076r or criticizing it. I know at 58mm it's a bit smaller than most run for their application but i think most people run turbochargers much larger than they need because they don't know any better. Well see how it performs in the real world, but on paper this looks to be the best turbocharger below 500whp on this size engine. It should be able to make around 600whp at higher boost, but not very efficiently on the 3.0l, it would be better for smaller 2.0-2.4l engines.

I know Cody was testing a billet 58mm unit on one of his cars i was hoping to see how that turned out.

 

[angus]

you originally didn’t use a BOV... I called you out on that... and now you do.

OK - I'm not going to start and big thing here but I think you REALLY missed out on the point of my original post when I first posted my turbo kit...

I NEVER - EVER - installed or sold a turbo kit for an NSX without a BOV - I merely offered a kit without a BOV so that people could choose their own BOV - at one point I may have argued that some OEM turbo cars do not have a BOV but never said my kit was made to be used without one - WOW.

As far as the housing, thanks for the advice it has been taken under advisement.

As I said, people are TOTALLY free to choose any turbo under the sun as an option with my kit - I can only suggest what I like, the choice is up to the individual.

Thanks,

Wil

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Im not sure if you are condoning the gtx3076r or criticizing it. I know at 58mm it's a bit smaller than most run for their application but i think most people run turbochargers much larger than they need because they don't know any better. Well see how it performs in the real world, but on paper this looks to be the best turbocharger below 500whp on this size engine. It should be able to make around 600whp at higher boost, but not very efficiently on the 3.0l, it would be better for smaller 2.0-2.4l engines.

I know Cody was testing a billet 58mm unit on one of his cars i was hoping to see how that turned out.

I will use a 3076 when I put my daily driver back together. You are correct about sizing and I am condoning your choice!

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

OK - I'm not going to start and big thing here but I think you REALLY missed out on the point of my original post when I first posted my turbo kit...

I NEVER - EVER - installed or sold a turbo kit for an NSX without a BOV - I merely offered a kit without a BOV so that people could choose their own BOV - at one point I may have argued that some OEM turbo cars do not have a BOV but never said my kit was made to be used without one - WOW.

Wil

WOW...

wow is the word used when I flip through your thread counting the amount of times your posts were edited.

go back and edit your post that says "under 5 psi you wouldnt hurt anything"

and dont make me look like an asshole when you use a twin on an open y and continue to give people ss charge piping.

I should copy your comment about your turbo... post it on honda-tech and see what people who are knowledgeable on FI have to say about your perfectly sized turbo research.

like I said.. I waived the flag.. no point