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Group Buy Variable Manual Rack - Feel a little F1 tech in your hands
- Thread starter liftnot
- Start date
MVO was able to take a preliminary measurement of the exterior of the rack and it looks promising as there is no permanent fasteners like rivets, stakes, epoxies, swaging etc. The housing is fairly simple and they have done similar in the past on a race car they won't name.
The next step is disassembly and CMM of the internals.
So far so good.
The next step is disassembly and CMM of the internals.
So far so good.
Awesome news! Tim I think we all want to thank you for taking this project on and developing a product that's better than oem as a replacement. My philosophy is why buy oem when technology has come such a long way.
Thx Steve. I am glad you see the value of this part.
We try our best to follow our motto of providing lighter, stronger, better parts that make a real difference. We are honored working with a Tier 1 vendor that has a proven process/record on the road and on the track. All the Stage 1 financial contribution have sent to MVO to kick this off and we are in good hands. Thx all making this happen. NO turning back now:wink:
We try our best to follow our motto of providing lighter, stronger, better parts that make a real difference. We are honored working with a Tier 1 vendor that has a proven process/record on the road and on the track. All the Stage 1 financial contribution have sent to MVO to kick this off and we are in good hands. Thx all making this happen. NO turning back now:wink:
I'm in hoping that I can replace my EPS unit. Thanks for the progress reports so far.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the progress reports!
Not much more update but we are "in their system" and working its way thru with a delay since we are smack in the middle of the racing season. Below is a msg from their manufacturing manager.
We appreciate the order to look into the NSX rack assembly for your group. We are coming up on a time when all of the components are getting finished up and we will be really tied up building gears to fulfill an order we have for one of our race series, so this may extend out a couple more weeks. We will work on it if we are waiting on any components, but I wanted to let you know there may be a slight delay in getting you the assessment. I am confident we will be able to find a good solution that should work for everyone.
We appreciate the order to look into the NSX rack assembly for your group. We are coming up on a time when all of the components are getting finished up and we will be really tied up building gears to fulfill an order we have for one of our race series, so this may extend out a couple more weeks. We will work on it if we are waiting on any components, but I wanted to let you know there may be a slight delay in getting you the assessment. I am confident we will be able to find a good solution that should work for everyone.
I'm in. Thanks for organizing.
In as well. Thanks
Subscribed for updates as well. Good to have an option if the original rack ever gives up the ghost. Would also be interesting to see how this performs compared to the slow variable rack we have.
I'm subscribed and would like to be on the list as well. Thanks!
-Dan
-Dan
Not yet Jones. We are in their ERP system waiting for our turn. They are in the smack middle of the racing season so the priority is not us. Don't worry, they have not forgotten about us, we just need to be more patient and wait for our turn. They are not flakes so will update as soon as there is something worth to update:wink:
the OEM rack is sleepy slow like 20-18 compare to your Exige ~15.8 about the same as the Alfa 4C. We are learning about this neat Bishop VR steering as well, it seems its not your typical variable ratio technology and we are anxious to learn the difference in addition to being a nicely engineered upgrade.
you can donate US$25 min. Paypal to [email protected] and pick friends and family. we will add you to the list to get the best pricing for the 1st run.
Hey Tim, Totally missed this thread when it started. I'm in. Donating to the cause. Thanks for putting in the work and getting an awesome project going.
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Sweet. Will have to donate to the cause! EDIT: Just donated!
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I'm really interested in this but I have an 05. If you do this you may need to get a universal rack for the long haul. As far as an initial GB I think 200 is fantasy, 100 near impossible, 50 unlikely, and 10-15 realistic. I just don't know how in Gods Green earth you're going to get this done. But if you do, and I genuinely hope you do, I will owe you a beer and an all expenses paid night at some strip joint.
Short ans.: No updated news from MVO yet. We are in contact with them every two weeks. We are still on their schedule of things to do. They have not show us the door.
In many ways, the hardest part is done....to find a legit vendor who is not a flake and WILLING to help and NOT trying to do this with a local machine shop and go for a cheaper price. The rest is just money and time.
This will be a fine piece of engineering upgrade that can not be seen but for those who care about handling and connecting with the road; its not a mod like many have accustomed to and haggle with pricing for a deal. We are not saying Mother Honda needs our help but many technologies simply did not exist back in the 80's.
We are optimistic and anxious waiting for the project to kick off. So,....save up your pennies when the raining day comes.
This is not our first dance and we're not quitting our day job.
In many ways, the hardest part is done....to find a legit vendor who is not a flake and WILLING to help and NOT trying to do this with a local machine shop and go for a cheaper price. The rest is just money and time.
This will be a fine piece of engineering upgrade that can not be seen but for those who care about handling and connecting with the road; its not a mod like many have accustomed to and haggle with pricing for a deal. We are not saying Mother Honda needs our help but many technologies simply did not exist back in the 80's.
We are optimistic and anxious waiting for the project to kick off. So,....save up your pennies when the raining day comes.
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Updates from MVO engineering dept this morning....they are not flakes. Analysis will come soon.
"Thank you so much for your patience. We are still in the process of building the race team steering gears and we were hoping to have your analyzed and torn down before we started, but timing didn't work out for us. We have taken some measurements and we have had the gear run on the CMM. Our next steps would be to dis-assemble to see what the current ratio is and then see what is the best rack and pinion ratio we could offer for this application. We hope to have the racing gears completed within the next week or so."
"Thank you so much for your patience. We are still in the process of building the race team steering gears and we were hoping to have your analyzed and torn down before we started, but timing didn't work out for us. We have taken some measurements and we have had the gear run on the CMM. Our next steps would be to dis-assemble to see what the current ratio is and then see what is the best rack and pinion ratio we could offer for this application. We hope to have the racing gears completed within the next week or so."
An encouraging update and we have began active dialogue with them on this.
> We have dis-assembled your gear and have been looking at the rack and
> pinion. We have also been brainstorming the next steps on how to
> move forward in the best and most affordable way for you and your
> group.
> We have dis-assembled your gear and have been looking at the rack and
> pinion. We have also been brainstorming the next steps on how to
> move forward in the best and most affordable way for you and your
> group.
R0Y,
you are not late. Project is currently WIP at MVO. We are in constant contact with MVO but we are not pushing them. They are in the middle of the racing season with lots of "more urgent" deadlines than this project. We "should" have a more pertinent update soon. Frankly, we are fortunate that they are "willing" to help us out as this is not a common project for them to do a small batch for a 30 year old car. They are THE best steering rack specialist just like Xtrac is to gearbox. That is all they do unlike Quaife, Woodward, Titan....who also produce steering racks but its not as special as the MVO unit.
FYI, the oem manual rack ratio is 18.2-20.8 so its mighty slow for a sports car and was designed in the late '80s. We hope enough people will sign up so ALL of us can benefit from the larger qty. pricing. If we can pull this off, then the RHD guys in Europe can benefit from this upgrade as well.
BTW, this is not a mod. It won't be cheap and you can't see it at your local C&C to show off so its not for everyone.
You did not see this thread because the market for P2F parts are minuscule compare to the larger but tiny NSX AM parts so we are dwarfed by them, besides, we are not leveraging "social media" for marketing as much as working on real upgrades that will make real differences in driving/tracking experience based on physics & math. We have about 5 more projects planned for this NSX and after that completion, we'll then move on to the next car and leverage our NSX product line on social media.
ie. the first upgrades we did to the car is the pre-preg front and rear bumper beams to lower the PMI for quicker turn in by losing 40lbs.+ at the far ends. We are basically replacing parts on this car that will rust :biggrin: with parts that won't rust.
Paypal $25 min. or more to [email protected] and select friends & family to avoid the fee. Thx for checking us out.
you are not late. Project is currently WIP at MVO. We are in constant contact with MVO but we are not pushing them. They are in the middle of the racing season with lots of "more urgent" deadlines than this project. We "should" have a more pertinent update soon. Frankly, we are fortunate that they are "willing" to help us out as this is not a common project for them to do a small batch for a 30 year old car. They are THE best steering rack specialist just like Xtrac is to gearbox. That is all they do unlike Quaife, Woodward, Titan....who also produce steering racks but its not as special as the MVO unit.
FYI, the oem manual rack ratio is 18.2-20.8 so its mighty slow for a sports car and was designed in the late '80s. We hope enough people will sign up so ALL of us can benefit from the larger qty. pricing. If we can pull this off, then the RHD guys in Europe can benefit from this upgrade as well.
BTW, this is not a mod. It won't be cheap and you can't see it at your local C&C to show off so its not for everyone.
You did not see this thread because the market for P2F parts are minuscule compare to the larger but tiny NSX AM parts so we are dwarfed by them, besides, we are not leveraging "social media" for marketing as much as working on real upgrades that will make real differences in driving/tracking experience based on physics & math. We have about 5 more projects planned for this NSX and after that completion, we'll then move on to the next car and leverage our NSX product line on social media.
ie. the first upgrades we did to the car is the pre-preg front and rear bumper beams to lower the PMI for quicker turn in by losing 40lbs.+ at the far ends. We are basically replacing parts on this car that will rust :biggrin: with parts that won't rust.
Paypal $25 min. or more to [email protected] and select friends & family to avoid the fee. Thx for checking us out.
- Joined
- 9 October 2012
- Messages
- 1,953
Re: ^
Honda could have easily made nsx rack quicker. Rack and pinion design is so simple by nature. Yet they deliberately chosen not to do it. I would argue mostly due to the fact that we're dealing with mid engine layout designed to op at high speed. Last thing you want at 100mph+ is "trigger happy" rack. Lack of tech like suggested above is not the reason they did it. IMO.
I still like the whole idea of having replacement part. Just wish it's as close as possible to oem spec. Happy to hear counter arguments and keep this discussion alive.
Honda could have easily made nsx rack quicker. Rack and pinion design is so simple by nature. Yet they deliberately chosen not to do it. I would argue mostly due to the fact that we're dealing with mid engine layout designed to op at high speed. Last thing you want at 100mph+ is "trigger happy" rack. Lack of tech like suggested above is not the reason they did it. IMO.
I still like the whole idea of having replacement part. Just wish it's as close as possible to oem spec. Happy to hear counter arguments and keep this discussion alive.
^ that sounds like common sense doesn't it? the Alfa 4C, Lotus Elise have ratios in the high 15 range and their WB is much shorter and weight much less than ours. Some folks describe their steering is telepathic.
Honda was correct when they design this rack as this car is a "GT" cruiser for most buyers. We are guessing with the new rack, you probably need to put two hands on the steering wheel and not drive like a muscle car dude with only one hand. AFAIK, Miata is 15:1, Caterham is much lower. Our car is at least 40lbs+ less at the ends than most cars so the rotational inertia is less should the car gets out of shape.
Should the potential "nervous-ness" you described at high speed occurs, the suspension set up(tires, align, corner wt., damping curve etc.) can be adjusted to provide better balance so one can push the car w/ confidence but one has to have high quality shocks that are valved properly with proper spring rate F/R to begin with. This is our next project in progress with EMI. You can ask Shad who he is if you don't.
The existing "snap over steer" condition can be dialed out if the shocks are of high quality and adjustable. FWIW, the popular KW3 comes with 348lbs all around is quite "odd" as the motion ratio of the F/R is quite a bit different( using simple math). KW was marketed as NSX specific with a pix of a German racing NSX on a shaker so you would think they have done their homework. But the valving for the said German NSX is most likely very different than our street car. Besides, why buy $teel $hock$ and not able to lower the unsprung weight for such a iconic sports car with svelte forged alum wishbones that are way lighter than today's super car wishbones? This is also very odd.
Many have tracked their car with bolt on shocks so these detail stuff is consider "Black Art" by many but IMO, detail matters and when all details add up, it makes a difference. These are not really details, these are steps on how car should be set up. Just changing springs is flying in the dark.
Like we said, this is not for everyone. We hope a few will understand the value of this because its a NSX. We don't want Senna turning in his grave of us putting on parts that don't improve the car. BTW, we don't tell MVO what we want, their patented Bishop steering is something special so we are waiting for their advise cuz we really don;t know much about this subject beyond the math and the theory. Who sits around discussing steering ratio?...WE WANT MORE HP AND BOOST!!
Honda was correct when they design this rack as this car is a "GT" cruiser for most buyers. We are guessing with the new rack, you probably need to put two hands on the steering wheel and not drive like a muscle car dude with only one hand. AFAIK, Miata is 15:1, Caterham is much lower. Our car is at least 40lbs+ less at the ends than most cars so the rotational inertia is less should the car gets out of shape.
Should the potential "nervous-ness" you described at high speed occurs, the suspension set up(tires, align, corner wt., damping curve etc.) can be adjusted to provide better balance so one can push the car w/ confidence but one has to have high quality shocks that are valved properly with proper spring rate F/R to begin with. This is our next project in progress with EMI. You can ask Shad who he is if you don't.
The existing "snap over steer" condition can be dialed out if the shocks are of high quality and adjustable. FWIW, the popular KW3 comes with 348lbs all around is quite "odd" as the motion ratio of the F/R is quite a bit different( using simple math). KW was marketed as NSX specific with a pix of a German racing NSX on a shaker so you would think they have done their homework. But the valving for the said German NSX is most likely very different than our street car. Besides, why buy $teel $hock$ and not able to lower the unsprung weight for such a iconic sports car with svelte forged alum wishbones that are way lighter than today's super car wishbones? This is also very odd.
Many have tracked their car with bolt on shocks so these detail stuff is consider "Black Art" by many but IMO, detail matters and when all details add up, it makes a difference. These are not really details, these are steps on how car should be set up. Just changing springs is flying in the dark.
Like we said, this is not for everyone. We hope a few will understand the value of this because its a NSX. We don't want Senna turning in his grave of us putting on parts that don't improve the car. BTW, we don't tell MVO what we want, their patented Bishop steering is something special so we are waiting for their advise cuz we really don;t know much about this subject beyond the math and the theory. Who sits around discussing steering ratio?...WE WANT MORE HP AND BOOST!!
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